gman1971

This pandemic makes me spend more time with radios lately and speaking of Repeaters I just put up one last weekend, got a cheap XPR8300 off Ebay and I have EVX-R70 on the way for a cheap too this is not a high end setup like Heliax cable, Celwave duplexers, hundred foot tower and so on I bet anyone would laugh and shake their head if they see it... ...All I want is to cover my usual route of 10 miles around town but right now I got 18 miles which is good I think. 

If GMRS ever allows DMR I would think SFR mode would be the way to go since it would be simple for a user to setup, no fancy controller or cavity filters to deal with.
 
In fact this would be ideal for a Ham buddy that's into off-roading with his Jeep and the group he belongs to. They are switching to GMRS since that seems to be the direction the off-roading community is moving towards. He's trying to get the group members to get their Ham Tech class tickets. If he can do that then using DMR with one radio setup as the repeater using SFR mode would fit exactly what they are looking for without a complex system to drag around. If a particular frequency is busy you just switch to another one. Can't do that in the field with a conventional setup.

I can vouch for the Ebay Cable guy it's BlueMax49ers I bough all my programming cables (iCOM, Kenwood, Motorola) from him (Mark KJ6ZWL)  all his cable are FTDi Chip fast shipping too. My latest purchased from him was the programming cable for XPR8300 and as what gman1971 say all cable works just fine.

I'd go with the 7550e, as it has a numeric keypad.  The radios are all pretty much push-to-talk once you have them programmed, and you can do it with software that makes it very simple.  
 
You can learn all the direct entry features as you go along.  
 
They all seem like very good radios, Motorola doesn't really make junk.  It will last a very long time and take a beating.  I will note that the 7580e is not a GMRS radio, so there's that.

I know this topic comes up every couple of months. I have a group of friends who are radio guys. In the past we used MURs, then GMRS, and even some public safety stuff. Most of them are hams also but not all. Solution. Get a UHF Land Mobile frequency and do what we want on it. Yes coordination can be a pain, but most of the frequency coordinators can give you a good idea of frequency use in your area. I think all in all we spent around $500 but they got a license, do DMR and used the same repeater site they had for the GMRS stuff. Bonus was as guys want ot come online they no longer have to get a GMRS license.
 
I know this isn't the goal here, but if your set on a DMR radio go this way. We still use multiple GMRS repeaters.

when are we going to be able to go to DMR on the GMRS Service i would love it to see us able to use DMR on the gmrs System 

So, as AdmiralCochrane pointed out on another thread... there isn't a main thread where the pros/cons of brand, non CCR, name radios are explained, so beginners don't fall on the Cheap China Radios trap... thinking they are getting a killer deal, when they are not. The question for this thread is: Why are used, and usually older, brand name radios a much better value than most Cheap China Radios? or CCRs?
 
Most of those 2nd hand brand radios, Motorola, Kenwood, ICOM, et. all are perfectly functional radios, some might have scratches, dirt, etc, but they are no longer being used b/c the company upgraded to fancier models, usually with color screens and lots of buttons to click around, etc...
 
The best example I can think of this are the XPR 4550/6550 Gen1 MotoTRBO radios (DMR) which are, as measured, still pretty darn good radios for the money; obviously the Gen2 have even better receivers, and fancier screens, with more buttons in some cases. 
 
So, I'll start with the XPR 6550 portable series. First I'll put the price I've seen on average on eBay, then some pros/cons. Average price doesn't mean its always that way, some go for much higher, others have gone for much lower. 135 is the average of what I paid for all my 6550 radios, so its not a made up number.
 
Average cost: $135 USD, eBay. Usually includes charger and battery, both tend to be genuine as well. Some might even include programming CD too..
Cost of programming cable: 35-85 bucks, 85 being Moto genuine cable, 35 being the no brand one. I have one of each. 
 
Pros:
-High performance, tunable, varactor Front End. (Radio won't become useless (desense) when other strong signals are around)
-The last superhet dual conversion in the XPR line AFAIK.
-LCD backlit screen. (6550 model)
-Motorola SMA connector. (same as Baofeng, ugh... blasphemy... Motorola and Baofeng should never be in the same sentence hahaha )
-Lots of inexpensive accessories, including batteries and chargers, if you want to keep costs down vs. the genuine Moto accesories. 
-FM and DMR digital (Tier II)
-Battery on digital will last a very long time.
-Submersible, and the brand name Motorola shoulder mics are also submersible too.
-Nearly indestructible... don't ask me how I know this.
-Microphone can also sport an antenna without an additional cable, since the side pinout has a coaxial RF out. (very handy feature)
-Loud, in fact its so darn loud you can use it in place of an alarm clock.
-Several audio tuning features, which improves audio quality to your liking.
-A ton of "community" support.
-Very easy, and affordable, to replace the entire housing if it ever breaks. 
-Service manuals to fix nearly anything that might wrong.
 
Cons
-Single band.
-Bigger than average... its not a brick, but its much bigger than say, a TH-F6a... 
-CPS can be challenging at first... it was quite daunting for me when I first moved into DMR style CPS/radios... but once you get the hang of it there is no going back.
-No VFO, if you like that sort of thing. I thought I would miss that, I haven't, and I think its been nearly a year since I stopped carrying my Alinco MD5...
-Rotary knob cannot be locked when the keypad is locked. Can be frustrating, but you put the holster loop around the antenna so its not a problem.
-16 channels per zone. This one was somewhat of a pain... since the Rotary Encoder only has 16 positions, the channel per zone is just 16. I split the GMRS channels into FRS and GMRS channel zones, so I could fit 14 FRS use and 16 for GMRS use, 12.5 vs 20.
-Needs an entitlement to do 25kHz, which can be obtained free from Motorola.
-Only Part 90.
 
 
G.

Totally free to just open the account. The 3 year CPS subscription is where the $$$$ is at.
 
G.

I keep wondering why the radio manufacturers keep using the SO-239 connector on mobile radios.  Maybe because they've always done it that way.  I absolutely HATE the SO-239 and PL-259 connectors.  They are spec'd as UHF connectors but they are not 50 ohms at UHF, probably around 45 ohms.  Mechanically, they suck too.  They also do not provide a full 360 degree termination for the cable shield.  I would not use one of these connectors above about 30MHz.  They are far more trouble than they are worth.
 
On a 440 ham repeater homebrewed from Icom UHF Part 90 mobiles, I did a little surgery on the transmit mobile and got rid of the SO-239 connector.  I replaced the SO-239 with a length of RG142U coax coming out of the mobile with an N connector on the other end. The tricky part was getting a full 360 degree shield connection to the circuit board inside and to the radio's heatsink casting.
 
The first thing I do on mobiles now is I put an N female to PL-259 adapter on the SO-239 connector on the mobile and then deal with nothing but N connectors the rest of the way.

That 299 thing is a waste of money, as I've been told in numerous occasions by other Commsupport members, who have tried it, and told me precisely to avoid it at all costs. Quoting some of those people here: "its utter garbage" So I would personally stay away from it, and trusting those people has made my radio range grow tens of miles, and I am no longer stuck at <2 miles on 50W mobile anymore.
 
Again, you are better off with an XiR radio that has a Motorola designed FPP.
 
With that said, I honestly think you won't need it, I could be wrong, but in my experience I haven't had a need to have a VFO or any sort of FPP... even before starting carrying LMR gear, I don't recall ever using VFO or FPP on my GD77, MD5 nor TH-F6a....  The handful of times I've used VFO on the TH-F6a was to listen to HF and AM airband, b/c these days everything is all digital, so you need to buy a digital scanner, with multimode capabilities... Also, the scan speed on all CCRs is pathetic at best... and the XPR7550 and the 6550 can only do 16 channel scan lists, so either way, you are screwed..., you'll be better off buying a dedicated digital scanner.
 
IMO, just program all the Itinerants, Moto LMR radio channels, EMS, Fire Dept, Hospitals, Marine, A large set of Ham repeaters, GMRS, etc etc. basically anything that might come in handy, and you're set. Again, If I wanted to just listen to traffic I'll just encourage you to buy a dedicated Scanner, or an HF rig.
 
If plugging 200 channels by hand is not your thing then there are codeplugs already made for the XPR radios that will have a ton of repeaters already programmed in them, just download and flash.
 
G.
 

I have seven UHF CP200 for sale. These are older radios, never issued, brand new condition. Come with radio, belt clip, antenna, charger and battery. The batteries don't hold a charge due to their age.
I'm askling $150.00 each, I'm willing to entertain other offers. I would love to make someone a package
deal on these.

I was prey to the cable loss BS scam, apparently the low loss cable myth seems to be targeted towards beginners just to sell them low performance LMR400, misleading them into believing that a .3 dB loss is going to render your radio useless. Not so.
 
FYI, I currently have a 2.3 dB insertion loss between my preselector and the 3 TX/RX bandpass cavities combined on my house base setup, even with a 2.3 dB I can easily reach 20 miles on 25W base to mobile... again, don't fall for the cable loss BS. A 1 dB loss is not going to hurt anything. Go with Heliax, and not b/c of the lower loss, but for the lower noise, which means better signal to noise ratio, since with LMR400 chances are the noise floor will increase by a few dB, which will certainly hurt things a lot more than losing a 0.3 dB of your signal. Again, don't use UHF chrome connectors, use N trimetal. Impedance mismatch and PIM will also ruin your range too... and will be an absolute witch hunt to find them.
 
 
G.
 
 
 

I was prey to the cable loss BS scam, apparently the low loss cable myth seems to be targeted towards beginners just to sell them low performance LMR400, misleading them into believing that a .3 dB loss is going to render your radio useless. Not so.
 
FYI, I currently have a 2.3 dB insertion loss between my preselector and the 3 TX/RX bandpass cavities combined on my house base setup, even with a 2.3 dB I can easily reach 20 miles on 25W base to mobile... again, don't fall for the cable loss BS. A 1 dB loss is not going to hurt anything. Go with Heliax, and not b/c of the lower loss, but for the lower noise, which means better signal to noise ratio, since with LMR400 chances are the noise floor will increase by a few dB, which will certainly hurt things a lot more than losing a 0.3 dB of your signal. Again, don't use UHF chrome connectors, use N trimetal. Impedance mismatch and PIM will also ruin your range too... and will be an absolute witch hunt to find them.
 
 
G.
 
 
 

If your going for 100' Id probably move to the LDF and not the FSJ.

Well, my recommendation goes to a 2nd hand (used, but not abused) Motorola XPR4550 mobile. These XPR4550 are very nice, and they can be found in decent condition for around 100-150 bucks on the bay, cable can be had for 20 bucks, and the legacy CPS can be purchased on eBay as well. These mobiles have a proper superhet receiver with a multiple tuned varactor front end, which will allow you reach more than 2 miles on a lot less power than 50W. To give you an idea, my XPR6550 portable, (which uses the same receiver as the 4550 mobile) can easily reach 1.5 miles on just 1 watt. Where? in the Madison WI area, which is super-hilly  suburban terrain... All my 6550 radios are used (2nd hand), some have small scratches, etc, but the scratches didn't stop them from demolishing all the crap inexpensive radios I own... 
 
Some background: most of those GMRS cheap mobiles usually show a 10-20 dBm loss in effective sensitivity, a loss that cannot be made up by just cranking power to 50W. 20dBm means you'll need 100 times the power to make up for it... So, if a radio has 95 dBm effective sensitivity means that it won't be able to hear anything below the 95 dBm mark... vs. a radio which has 115 dBm effective sensitivity, which will be able to hear equally good a signal coming from a 1 watt radio as a 95 dBm effective sensitivity radio would hear a 100 watt signal.
 
That is the importance of having a real receiver with tuned front end... etc.
 
G.

I think this topic has been sufficiently discussed. We are very near the point of running into Godwin's Law.

Well, 75' to 100' is a large difference, remember that crimping heliax is not easy without the right tools... I know this b/c I botched it before... with the tool is a lot easier. 
 
Use a string to find out the exact length, then find the next cable in size.
 
For a 100' run I think its probably better to ask here, pretty certain others can sell you a 100' FSJ4-50B with crimped N connectors on both ends, and even a sweep of such cable.
 
G.

I have been using this for yrs.
some things to keep in mind. gain is in dBi subtract 2.1 dB if antenna is rated in dBd.
line loss , don't forget the insertion loss of your duplexer typically .5dB-1.5 dB on average.
now the "required reliability" can change the map dramatically. I find that 85% works well in most applications.
JE

Well, 75' to 100' is a large difference, remember that crimping heliax is not easy without the right tools... I know this b/c I botched it before... with the tool is a lot easier. 
 
Use a string to find out the exact length, then find the next cable in size.
 
For a 100' run I think its probably better to ask here, pretty certain others can sell you a 100' FSJ4-50B with crimped N connectors on both ends, and even a sweep of such cable.
 
G.

Well there are really two issues here. One is cheap labor. Second is cheap design.
 
You can still move manufacturing back to the US and still produce garbage because the design was cheap. The CCR's are the way they are because of both of the above factors. Cheap labor keeps cost down. A cheap design that takes maximum advantage of highly integrated chips which very often results in a compromise somewhere in performance with a trade off in reduced cost. Now you have a really cheap radio with so-so performance.
 
There is a reason why the higher end radios perform better, cost more, than many CCR's is because more effort was made during the design and testing phase with less corners in performance cut. To design high performance hardware requires very careful evaluation of nearly every component used. For a $25 Baofeng just how much R and D money do you think they are going to spend on such a cheap radio? For the CCR's they use a "datasheet" reference design, tweak it a bit. Then try some "can you hear me now tests" and then it goes to marketing.

Why? B/c those radios don't suck. If you are looking for excuses to keep buying garbage then you are doing a great job, keep it up. Hearing you is just like hearing myself 6 years ago... wasting my money away... 
 
Radios Part 90 certified have tighter and stricter requirements than Part 95 toys. Yes, part 95 radios are usually overpriced toys.. its like buying an Airsoft replica vs buying the real gun...  which one would you rather have if things go south? Pretty clear answer to me. Using the dubious legal argument to sell P.O.S. radios is just blatantly misleading customers into buying inferior products that won't perform as advertised when you might need them the most.
 
I am using the XPR7550e as an example here, but there are other quality brand LMR radios made by Motorola/Kenwood/ICOM that are also part 95 approved... you just have to look around. I chose the XPR7550e b/c I love how it looks, it has the best audio I've ever heard on any radio and the best range I've ever tested on a portable simplex.
 
To conclude: other people here aren't just exclusively licensed on GMRS, other people here are also hams, or even LMR operators who might hold an Itinerant Business Radio license... where encryption is legal too... 
 
G.
 

Yes, absolutely.
 
I did the same thing when I replaced my 25 foot LMR400 UHF-UHF feedline with FSJ4-50B N-Male N-Male, same length. The heliax I got was factory made. I got mine from eBay as a NIB New Old Stock, I paid 35 bucks for 25 foot with 2 preinstalled trimetal N-male connectors, which are like 29 bucks a pop.
 
To give you quantitative figures: The antenna feedline connector at the base now reads a near perfect 50.03 Ohms impedance, and the return loss is -38dBm... as expected range now is measured in tens of miles, too, as opposed to the LMR400 which had an impedance of 43 Ohm and a -28 dBm return loss, while not bad, range was at best 10 miles.
 
There are people here who can also make these cables. I just wanted a factory cable with the datasheet and sweep chart to ensure I wasn't getting a dud.
 
The keyword on eBay to find a N to N heliax is "PNMNM" if you type that you'll get every cable on eBay that has N-male (NM) to N-male (NM)  There are a ton of listings, just look for FSJ4-50B.
 
G.
 

WOW! I can't believe it, but I got it working. So, it was user error (not at all shocking there!). But, in simple, the accessory connector is upside down compared to most of the other 16 pin radios. Everything I found online states that pin 1 is bottom left while looking at the back of the radio with the heatsink facing down. Apparently, this is WRONG for the M1225 (at least this version of it). I dug through the service manual and found that pin 1 is top right. I checked the ACTUAL pin 8, and guess what.. working perfectly. Hopefully this helps someone else in the future too!
 
If you are using one of the cheap, china no-name repeater cables, the blue pot for RX adjustment needs to be facing UP (towards the top of the radio). I am very thankful that plugging them in upside down didn't blow anything up, since I read online that can easily happen if these things are installed upside down.
 
Mystery solved!

Yes. Look on page 11 of the service manual for how it's done for the TK-370G models with full keypads. A hardware mode needs to be done in addition to enabling self programming in the software.
 
http://www.repeater-builder.com/kenwood/pdfs/tk-360g-tk-370g-svc-man.pdf
 
For the older TK-370 32 channel model the instructions are here.
 
http://rsws.zapto.org/radiosoftware/kenwood/Tk270.pdf
 
After looking at how it's done for the 370G I would rather use the software. Trying to do this in the field would be "interesting" to say the least.

I still have my very first radio, a Kenwood TH-G71A dual band, I purchased new. Had some repairs done on it over the years but still in great shape and working. Only draw back is it can't do narrow band.