quarterwave
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Posts posted by quarterwave
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DSL is not POTS. The only thing they have in common is the copper. They can be had together or individually on the same line. DSL is not POTS, because phone service is switched, and DSL rides the same copper but does not go through the switch.
The interesting thing about internet is that cable internet providers are not nearly as regulated as DSL providers, who are normally old school telephone companies. They even get taxed differently...which is unfair.
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1. You don't. But, GMRS licensees should ID without question. Nothing we can do even if we do care, except follow the rules ourselves and encourage others to also. With FRS being able to use the mains now at 2w and the low side splinters at 2w (where they used to be .5w, even though not a lot of radios out there yet to do it...still much Chinese junk people can hap hazardly program with little to no understanding of rules) there will be times that FRS is on a channel and there will be no ID and no way to know. Personally....I share, but if I can tell they are unlicensed, I'll go ahead and use it anyway especially my repeater channel. I am licensed for 25 years, and own a repeater. I share with GMRS users, not FRS people with $18 radios.
2. No license on 462.725 with 40 watts - Illegal.
3. More authority? Not technically sure that exists, but if I follow the rules and I don't *hear* that FRS user on the channel because he is low power anyway....I talk right over them. They seem to change channels after that.
FRS can be used for "Business", but its a poor choice. Toy equipment, essentially, and there is no protection, or exclusivity. An automotive supplier near me learned that, and bought real radios a few years ago. People were interfering with their "operations" by listening for names, etc. and then mimmicking people, causing confusion and chaos. Nothing that they could do about it. Of course it helped that they were so smart that they used FRS Channel 1 and NO squelch code (open squelch). I listened to some of it night after night on the scanner...it got funny, frankly.
Here's a channel guide, it if helps any. http://www.nat-com.org/frs-gmrs.html
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Mains (462.550, 462.575...) are 25KHz spacing. Bandwidth is 20KHz (2.5kHz guard on either side). Just set it for Wideband and it will use 5KHz deviation and you'll be fine.
ERP is not the concern, the FCC spec is a max of 50 watts at the connector, so any electrical gain in the antenna design is fine. I run a 1/4 wave (0 gain) on vehicle, but my repeater antenna is a ASP805 which is 10dB gain. My output is 50 watts, but my ERP is something like 300. Rule is 50 at the radio (or out of the Duplexor).
- PB30X, Elkhunter521 and berkinet
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Even though marked Private, I see notes about asking for usage permission.
I know I have talked on a couple around Myrtle Beach, SC a few times on vacation, they just wanted to know who you were and your call. I didn't have anyone to talk to specifically (no one in my party), but talked to local people who were monitoring. Nice folks, and they appreciated having someone to chat with from out of town.
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WQOM273 , whose email doesn't seem to work and his website is dead...has 20 repeaters listed in rural areas, I am 10 miles from one, and if it were on the air, I could hear it...but I have never heard it.
I would question if these sites even exist or this is another day dreamer channel camping with listings all over the database here. They are also all listed as private, pay to play.
You can tell your friends you drive a Ferrari, but eventually they want to "see" it....
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I tried to register in to Repeater Finder and couldn't. Turns out my login for this site got me in, seems to be same data, I can't edit mine, but yeah...I was confused too!
Added: I just noticed the DB at RF seems to be behind. I had removed something from the DB here a while back, but it is still on the RF site. I added a new one today, I'll see how long it takes to show up over there.
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Hi Steve, As long as you are using a FRS radio, including the GMRS / FRS combination radios that were re classified last year to FRS, you do not need a license and you can use them. If you take your own GMRS radio (not a bubble pack )to work, you would legally have to use your call sign.
At that point, everyone with a beef about your company's use of this channel would be looking for you.
Not worth it.
Oh, Welcome to GMRS.
Keith T.
Which brings up a good topic...
If there are now radios sold that have the original FRS low side channels (Like Ch 1 462.5625) that were always half watt, and are now 2 watts. Plus they now have the GMRS mains to use at 2 watts... It's really hard to tell who is using FRS for business (which is technically ok, but businesses should take the high road and buy real radios), and who is using GMRS radios that can run on 5 watts for these channels, illegally. How are we going to know? We're not. Now I'm not saying anyone but the diehards like us here will think of this and jump on the chance to ambiguously use GMRS radios at 5 watts under the guise of FRS just to get full power, but you never know.
BTW - is anyone making the new radios with 2w on FRS yet? I haven't really checked myself.
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Oh give them 20 years or so...
If you are new to GMRS and radio all together.... keep in mind many who have been at this for years in all forms of radio have a "common sense" approach to things...goes with that "spirit" of the rule type deal. There are 20 guys a day that get into GMRS and think they have found some incredible new discovery in capability that no one else has thought of....but it isn't practical, isn't legal, and doesn't meet the common sense test.
- Radioguy7268, n4gix, Elkhunter521 and 2 others
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Essentially, these radios are built so the channel numbers match up, if you put both on, say, channel 12 with the same code (or no code) you can talk. Of course there are particulars on power based on which channel it is, primarily in the handheld. On the repeater side, that's another ball game, and since you have found out that the handheld you have is not repeater capable, that's probably not your concern now.
However, from reading what you originally wrote, I would ask if you understood that there has to be a local repeater (a physical piece of equipment someone is operating) in service, and you would have to know the info for it, and have permission to use it...before you can "use" it?
Don't get bummed, just ask people here. Lots of people just getting into it and learning, and some like me that have been in radio (not just GMRS) for 30 years or more!
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I might suggest a little program, I think is still available for windows, if not there are others. ScanRec is a configurable recorder with vox for the PC, and you can run your radio into the sound card and monitor a channel for a week or a month....then just go back and see how much traffic was there when you play the recording back.
In commercial radio, I have used a vox tape recorder to do this in the past. And, while I am telling stories...A tech I once worked with, he had an analog clock hooked up in the mix, when the vox controller came on, it also fed 1.5 volts to the clock, and the clock would run when there was audio coming in. He set the clock for 12:00 and then checked the minutes, and seconds on it when he/we went back to check the recordings in a week. That's how we used to find the best frequency from the 4-5 the coordinator would send us.
Just thought I would share, monitoring a channel all day is tough, it needs to be at a fixed location too, preferably where the repeater will be, and on a similar height antenna. If you try to do it manually...well, as soon as you walk away there will be traffic...or could be. So a recording device is very handy.
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I agree that most of this usually has to do with power and tower costs if the owner doesn't host it on an owned property.
I have never viewed repeater access as a "right". If I own it, it's use is up to me, it is not public domain. The channel is, and if you want to use the output as your simplex, go ahead. I monitor before I transmit but if I am 15 miles away, I'm likely not going to hear a 3-4 watt portable working simplex. Sorry.
As far as these stiff nosed repeater deals....well, some guy in my, say, region, supposedly has like 20 repeaters strung out over 7 counties, non over lapping mostly and not great coverage according to the maps, but has a real salty write up about "paying members only"....of course I don't believe that even half of his repeaters even exist. Has a big imagination.
I run one repeater that is private (about 25 years) and one that is open (PL, but if someone wants to use it they can).
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The question needs a little structure...but I think we understand what you are asking...or saying...I guess.
The ones I have seen "charging" are usually asking for a dues or fee basically to cooperatively share in repeater expense (maintenance). If selling airtime...that would be more like a FB4 or FB6 and would constitute a business in my book...and I don't think most of the owners want to file taxes and form an LLC around a non-business oriented radio service.
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A little snippy in that response...I probably would have asked about the return policy at that point. No sense in being an A$$.
Reminds me of a time I called a maker of a dialing device I needed to use on analog phone lines, this guy sold all kinds of niche tools and gadgets for electronics. I just wanted to know about the DTMF timing and pauses. He began yelling at me on the phone, and said that if I was so dumb that I didn't know what I was buying then he wasn't going to sell it to me. I advised him that I worked for a telephone carrier and I just needed to know about something that wasn't in the specs. It wasn't some gray area device, it was just a device. I basically ended up telling him there was no way our company would ever do business with someone that acted like him, and I hung up.
Checked the internet...yep, he couldn't have sold much, or had any repeat business. Bad reputation. I don't know why people think they can act that way and still be in business.
- DeoVindice and Hans
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Might also consider mixing. Is there something new on the air at the site or near that is mixing with 467 to produce the apparent access? Something using those codes on an adjacent frequency?
In the past I would suspect a paging transmitter, but that is a bit dated. I realize you insinuate that it is FRS type users, so it seems to be more in band than say a low band and VHF channel blending to produce a UHF. I can remember IMTS and Paging channels making some UHF receivers nutty back in the day.
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The M1225 series radios are good, if you have a way to program them as they need an older computer to program them. I personally use Kenwood TK880's which have software readily available online and will work on modern computers. They are first responder grade which means integrity & reliability are there, and not as expensive as the 1225's normally cost.
I agree , I've used M1225 and P1225 for years, have several and they have been ultra reliable.
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However, as I was reasoning earlier, the manufacturer's responsibility lies in them honestly pursuing FCC certification in good faith for their designs and sticking to those designs. The FCC's responsibilities include making sure that it is not certifying non-compliant designs. The licensed individual's responsibilities, license by rule or by application, is to adhere to the parameters of relevant regulations.
With FCC certified hybrid bubble pack radios, I don't fault the manufacturers. Rather, I fault the FCC for certifying them and I fault the user for not reading and following the requirements.
I agree.
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From a regulatory standpoint, how do you keep people from driving around with the repeater still active? A warning label is not sufficient. Such a mobile repeater would not be Part 95 accepted.
Right. Just like selling GMRS capable radios at Walmart and putting in the fine print that people have to get a license. 1 nerd in 100,000 buyers reads that. So, yes to say a warning label is not sufficient is an under statement!
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So much already written and available on this, yet every time we turn around there is a new post rehashing all of it. I think we all like helping others, but I can't frankly find the energy to do all that typing, bless you others for doing it. Some folks need to do a lot...a lot more reading before asking for the instant gratification answer. Not trying to offend anyone....just being direct.
- Radioguy7268, berkinet and Hans
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That would be a nice add, although with the equipment available I think GMRS gets looked at more like a consumer grade hobby, rather than a technical grade hobby. However, I like the concept simply because I have done MRE's in commercial work. Both Public safety and Utilities. In utilities and LE, we sold and serviced PAC-RT's that were connected to low band mobiles, and those were VHF Hi, the PAC was .6 (6/10ths of a watt) on the mobile side and 2 watts on the handheld (HT600 Motorola). We also did it 450 handhelds to VHF mobiles for an ambulance district.
For those of us who are adept...sure, I'd setup a VHF cross in my vehicle.
- Hans and Elkhunter521
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Because I saw this today in the DB on a repeater listing:
"Apr 9, 2017 -No you don't need permission from the repeater owner to use GMRS frequencies regardless of the repeater being private property. You're not violating private property laws by using a repeater that's on GMRS frequencies. If you want to control who can use your repeater you need a private business (IG) license."
I wanted to comment about it and it sort of falls under the topic of this post. He had several other things posted in there about license, and such, and like the above some seem more opinion than fact. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, and not trying to police him, I just don't agree.
I don't think this is a good statement to make to others who may just be learning about GMRS. I have been licensed for 25 years, worked in some form of radio, including commercial 2way for a little longer than that, and no where have I ever seen where the FCC says that if you put a GMRS repeater on the air, you cannot control who uses it. It's correct that the frequencies are not exclusive nor "private property" as he says, and that if someone happened to be using the output simplex, there is nothing you can do about that....but most intelligent people understand that if that were the case and they were using simplex and a repeater started blasting them out...well, the users of the repeater may not even be able to hear them to start with...so it's better just change channels. We all have to share the available frequencies.
I will and do control who uses my repeater by controlling the DPL code on it. If someone thinks they want to read my code, program their radio and try to use my repeater without my permission, well, that code will get shut off. At that point, it would be obvious they were being an ass, and not asking for permission in good faith. I have to share the frequency if someone else uses it, and I can hear them before I transmit, but I DO NOT have to share the use of my repeater.
It is dangerous to mis-educate people, as dangerous as people not educating themselves or claiming ignorance. The worst problem I see in GMRS right now are people who are jumping in with both feet, no life vest and no swimsuit! Making a splash, thinking they have it all figured out after 10 minutes of reading, and wanting to use partial knowledge of things to start suggesting "new" things, trying things they think would be neat...all while being new and naive about everything. That is one thing I like about HAM radio, you are kind of forced to learn some things before you get privileges.
Sorry so wordy.
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Weather Radio
in Technical Discussion
Posted
I can't remember the brand and model, but I bought one to do this (Severe alerts only for 2 counties) and I made sure it had both a relay output and EOM reset.
Mine is hooked to a control station (old M100 Motorola mobile on a power supply) via COR from the relay out. The TOT is set to 45 seconds...Not that my MTR2000 repeater would care...but it is nice to have on there when we are farming in the Spring and Fall.
There are no competing repeaters on the same channel in my area, so it's never been a problem.