Jump to content

gortex2

Members
  • Posts

    1922
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    64

Reputation Activity

  1. Like
    gortex2 reacted to Lscott in Friendly reminder to those who use GMRS, Ham, FRS, MURS, Unlicensed CCRs... etc...   
    The Kenwood modules will do that. Plus you need a special “key loader” just to access the cryptographic module from what I’ve read.
  2. Like
    gortex2 reacted to WROY767 in FCC does not allow More repeaters?   
    I apologize if I missed it within some of the answers, but what Radio Service are you referring to?  Amateur, GMRS, or Business?
    The short answer is Not True, regardless and I felt deeper explanation might be helpful.
    If you are referring to GMRS (Part 95), the FCC does not take any kind of interest in our repeaters.  As stated above, there are 8 channels designated by the Commission which may only be used for repeaters. It is possible that whomever told you that was referring to the FCC not intending to make any changes to that part of the rule.  They are not planning on allowing any of the other 14 channels to be used with repeaters (the FRS only channels). 
    The FCC created the GMRS class, included rules for transmission modes and allowable uses, and set it off to fend for itself.  It is not currently considering any changes to the regulations nor does it actively participate in its' usage day to day, unless there is a situation which requires investigation and potential regulatory action.  (That happened in Tampa FL recently due to usage not in accordance with the regulations).  As an aside,
    Incidentally, because i see this all the time, if you do something which is deemed not in accordance with the regulations, you are not breaking the law.  These are not Laws.  The FCC is no a legislative body. It is a regulatory body.  You are breaking a rule, and that alleged infraction would be investigated, and if warranted, passed on to an enforcement body (a local District Attorney for example) who will impose enforcement actions in accordance with the FCC's policies.  Except for extreme cases, (violations of the rules which result in significant property damage, personal injury, death, or disruption of the public broadcast and radio systems) you cannot "go to jail".  You will not be incarcerated for using your Baofeng as your personal 2way radio on GMRS channels while at the County Fair, to keep track of your kids on the Ferris Wheel. 
    If you are referring to Amateur Radio (Part 97), the FCC does not coordinate (which is the proper term, not regulate, nor permit, or allow, or license, etc) repeaters or any specific frequencies used with them.  An amateur radio operator (person or club) is free to establish a repeater on any pair it so chooses. There are generally accepted standards such as offsets and splits, but even that is not set in stone.  Amateur radio is 'self-policing" and thus, generally speaking, everyone gets along in the same sandbox just fine. A VEC plays an important role in all of this.  They are Volunteers in that they do not operate as a commercial entity or receive payment for their services.  (It is possible that a person working as a Frequency Coordinator is also an amateur radio licensee and provides this type of coordination for free, while charging for other activities.) I will explain coordinators and what they do at the end.
    If you are referring to the Business Band service (Part 90), the answer is still no.  There are no plans to do so because there are significant regulatory standards in place.  One of those is the regulation that any applicationfor a Business Band license includes the need for Frequency Coordination.  You apply for a License, and the FCC approves your application in accordance with coordination.  As an aside, the FCC developed the Band Plan, and in this scenario, does not get involved in the xxx.1234 mhz part of it as long as you operate in accordance with the Part and the Plan.  You do not apply to use a particular frequency.  A coordinator tells the FCC which one to allow you to use and that is then what is approved for your license.
    A Coordinator is a person or entity who reviews your application from the technical aspect.  They are a business and charge a fee for their service.  It is expensive in general terms, and the pricing typically is tiered depending upon how many frequencies you are requesting.  Buytwowayradio.com charges a fee, which I believe is at one price for one frequency, and is one price for 2 or more.  A local shop here in my community uses a Coordinator who provides up to 5 frequencies for your application for 1 price.  They will look at your intended use (will you use mobiles, portables, repeaters, data, a mix, etc.) as well as things such as needed transmit powers, the location and height of the transmitter antenna, it's position relative to an Airport, or other restricted area, things specific to towers, and the other frequencies (and all of their conditions such as above), likelihood of inducing or being affected by other radio interference in the geographic region you seek to operate within.  They analyze your application against all of the other data available in your area, and they recommend a frequency, (single, multiple, or repeater pair) and then forward your application to the FCC for final approval.  This is Frequency Coordination, and is a required component for obtaining a Part 90 license.
    There is nothing to indicate that there is A: a need to restrict radio station licensing as it exists today, or B: actual Commission activity toward doing so in Part 90.  I would venture to say that our slice (GMRS) will likely require some involvement in the future simply because no one anticipated the unprecedented rise in the actual usage.  Take a look at MURS (VHF, 5 simplex channels, no fee, data OK, but absolutely no repeater use of any kind).  It was developed, thrown out there, has generally limited uses, and thus floats along just fine for decades with light to no usage in most areas. Whereas GMRS has so many uses, it's difficult to find spectrum to operate, in some places.
  3. Like
    gortex2 reacted to JB007Rules in Repeater set up   
    I'll bite on this one so you can get a realistic idea how much money it costs to put a super high end tall repeater in.
     
    Here is a copy/paste from my costs for my system.  It's argued that if I went with the correct repeater (Motorola Quantar) from the get go I could have saved $806 ($365 + $200 re-tune on the used Kenwood TKR-850 + the $150 preamp).... SO say $7989.77 total.... I couldn't afford it and didn't want to deal with it out of the gate to be honest.

    These costs are obviously not including any radios or monthly tower rent.  Nor does it include the correct test equipment (Dummy loads, antenna analyzer, etc etc). I also don't have a duplexer any more but when I did that was an additional $800 for a good 4 cavity EMR corp Band pass/band reject unit.
     
    These costs DO include 66.6 hours of run time on dual 12V batteries at stand-by / 15.38 hours of talk time at 25W (half power).  + charger.  Note that the charger isn't very big because the Quantar also charges the batteries when power is restored.  That is in addition to however long the 1500VA APC will run it at full power on AC which isn't tested but looking at the LCD screen of the battery it shows about 2 hours stand-by on that and keyed at 50W of power, about 30 min of talk time.
     
    You don't *NEED* Northcomm cables or all the backup stuff so if you consider a Quantar out of the gate and you subtract the other items you'd be closer to $7215.47.  It's also worth noting that you don't need a pre-amp with a quantar so that saves you a bit since a quantar's receive is insane good.  Every site is different and I'm on a receiver multi-coupler that has a pre-amp built into it.
     
    Numbers below:
     
    Item:     Cost:      Part Numbers:  Notes:
                                                   
    DB408   $952.50                 DB-408B              
    Feed Line             $1,327.20             AVA7-50 x 280' @ $4.74/foot     
    6' Stand Off Bracket        $0.00     S-600     Got as part of the tower climb
    Clamps $108.28                 MS-SB50             
    Grounding kits x 2            $30.38   SG158-12B2U ($15.19/each)      
    Repeater             $395.00                 TKR-850               
    Tower Climbers $1,700.00             9AM - 6PM        
    1-5/8" Female N Connectors       $227.36                 158EZNF - 2 @ $113.68/each      
    105AH Lead acid battery               $267.00                 Installing week of 6/14/21           
    Noco G3500 3.5A charger             $63.70   G3500 Bought 11/23/2019           
    1500VA APC Battery Backup        $178.60                 BX1500M            
    Repeater re-tuning         $200.00                                
    Pre-AMP             $150.00                                
    Northcomm Cables         $200.00                                
    Polyphaser VHF50HN     $120.00                                
    105AH Lead acid battery               $332.00                 Installed 2/16/2022         
                                                   
    Quantar               $1,328.13                            
    DC Cable 3084989T03      $71.76                  
    DC Cable TRN5155A        $67.27                  
    Quantar Tuning - Northcomm + Cables + Controller          $899.20                                
    Freight for Quntar            $86.39                  
                                                   
    TOTAL:  $8,704.77                    
     
    Hope this helps!          
           
  4. Like
    gortex2 reacted to WyoJoe in Repeater set up   
    I set mine up with 16 channels, most of which were programmed to the same repeater pair (462.625 Tx / 467.625 Rx). The way mine is configured, I have six pre-configured tones (4 are CTCSS, 2 are DCS), with two channels for each tone (1 high power, 1 low power), all programmed to the same repeater pair (46x.625). With the change of a channel, I can select either high or low power, and any of the pre-configured tones should there be interference from other users. I then used the remaining channels to use the adjacent frequency pairs (46x.600 and 46x.650), with selectable power levels for each. They are slightly outside of the optimal frequency for the duplexer, but will work if needed.
    That configuration allows me to change the required tone, power level, or even the frequency pair, with just a touch of a button.
  5. Like
    gortex2 reacted to Lscott in Russian and Ukrianian Radios   
    Seeing how Baofengs are disparaged here I wonder just how well they hold up in the field. I guess any radio is better than none. As cheap as they are a truck load isn't that expensive.
    As a point of comparison the old WWII man-pack radios only did 0.3 watts on low band VHF. The range was about 3 miles with the long antenna.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCR-300
    https://olive-drab.com/od_electronics_scr300.php
  6. Like
    gortex2 reacted to wrci350 in FRS Mobile?   
    Sorry, but I fail to see the point you are trying to make.
    That's not an FRS radio, it's a GMRS radio.  Yes, someone can buy it and install it and use it without a license.  That's true of any GMRS radio.
  7. Like
    gortex2 got a reaction from wayoverthere in Trying to Indentify Repeaters in My Area   
    Dont believe anything the repeater listing shows. Those range miles are not accurate for the most part. The only way to get a valid range is to ask the owner.
  8. Like
    gortex2 reacted to MacJack in Recommend sub $60 radio   
    Keep an eye out for deals coming up at this site... Great firm to do business with and they stand behind what they sell.  FYI some new products are coming out and some great GMRS radios will be reduced....  
    https://www.buytwowayradios.com/consumer/gmrs-radios.html?tw_radio_type=734
     
     
  9. Like
    gortex2 reacted to PACNWComms in You just got your GMRS license, now you want your own repeater?   
    Talk In versus Talk Out range, something that does need to be emphasized at times. Kudos to those that did in this forum. 
    I use a 25 Watt Spectra briefcase repeater when I head into parts unknown. With an antenna on a tripod about 30 feet above ground level usually gets me a few miles increased range, if on a hill, often ten or more. This works for my use case, as all other users are carrying four to five watt handhelds. Great portable repeaters, but getting harder to find. I use two deep cycle marine Optima batteries and often get an entire weeks of use before a charge.
  10. Like
    gortex2 reacted to n4gix in Phelps Dodge duplexer.   
    Well, I suppose the guy may have used an IFR/Aeroflex 1200 Super S to tune the duplexer.. That could be called a "Super Tune!" ?
  11. Like
    gortex2 reacted to quarterwave in You just got your GMRS license, now you want your own repeater?   
    Just a note I thought of as I a looked at repeater updates this week... 
    Whether you are an experienced radio guru, know enough to be dangerous. or a beginner, keep this in mind about repeaters: 
    If you put up the highest gain antenna you can find, the biggest low loss transmission line and set your power out to get right on 50 out of the tx cans of the duplexer, and score a site 1500 feet AAT....the question is, how much do I need? 
    If your best radio, or a user on your repeater, his best radio can get in from a maximum of, say 10 miles out, but your repeater can be heard for 50 miles...you might be overdoing it. Not only that, you might be keeping another GMRS-er from being able to use the frequency elsewhere if there is crowding, even if your tone is different. Remember, it's a user coordinated service, it's up to us to share. 
    I once had a customer who had a 125 Watt VHF repeater, and on a good day his reliable coverage was 30 miles with mobiles, 40 miles if you were knowledgeable. You could hear it for 150 miles depending on where you were that far out. We turned it down to 75 watts and they never knew a difference. 
    So, just my opinion, but I do believe in the ham theory that you only need as much power as it takes, no more. 
    -
     
  12. Like
    gortex2 reacted to WRPE755 in Is There A Road Channel For GMRS?   
    I am not certain that we need a travel channel. Most of the tasks we used to use CBs for (traffic checks, speed traps, open gas stations, calling for emergency assistance, etc) are performed far more efficiently by our cell phones. GMRS is fantastic when traveling with a group of other cars, and I enjoy being able to gab with people on our local repeaters, but CBs died because they no longer filled a need. I don’t see how GMRS radios are any different in that regard.
    Having said that I still scan through the channels while driving. I hear plenty of other people talking while on the road, so perhaps I am just missing something!
  13. Like
    gortex2 reacted to Lscott in FRS Mobile?   
    Wrong. As others have pointed out it’s allowed in the rules. You should really go and read them. If you didn’t understand them the first time through go and read them again.
    The confusing part is communications between FRS and GMRS radios. Each operates under their respective rules parts. If you’re using a GMRS compliant radio, talking to an FRS radio, then you must follow ALL the GMRS rules including ID’ing yourself. The FRS radio user does not. 
    FRS radios by design, FCC requirements for certification, can’t access the repeater input channel frequencies so the issue there is moot.
    The FCC created this mess by allowing the sale of combination FRS/GMRS radios in the first place. The box contained information stating the channels above 14 can’t be used unless one had a valid GMRS license. Almost nobody read that, or if they did just ignored it. Finally the FCC changed the rules which became effective in 2018 making the wide spread practice legal so they didn’t have to deal with the enforcement issue. So we have the weird situation where two radio services share the exact same frequencies AND are allowed to cross communicate.
    Sooner or later newbies start asking about cross communications between Ham 70cm and GMRS. Technically it’s possible with certain radios using no modifications for out of band operations. Forget it. It’s not legal due to some rules mainly on the Ham side. That’s the conclusions I reached after looking at it myself years back. This topic has been covered on these forums before as well.
  14. Like
    gortex2 reacted to marcspaz in Is There A Road Channel For GMRS?   
    I actually go offroad with a small group of Hams... there is usually much less conflict over what frequency we use. The conflict with GMRS is some radios don't cover all FRS channels or there is a lot of congestion. Especially at big events like the Boy Scout Jamboree, Mustang Week, Beach Week, etc. 
     
    In Ham radio, if we adhere to commonly accepted spacing, there is an equivalent of 267 channels, plus digital voice, analog voice in AM, FM and SSB. On top of that, we still have hundreds of squelching combinations.  Plus all amateur VHF radios cover all the same frequencies. It's pretty easy to just agree to use a quiet frequency. 
    Me and my group usually use 147.525 MHz, C4FM modulation, group code 16.  The chances of us hearing anyone else while noodling around the mountains or downtown Daytona are almost zero.
     
    That said, FRS and GMRS makes life a while lot easier for a family. Again, why I use it... mainly to talk to my family and a few very close friends and their families. The ease of use is what's so attractive for many families. 
  15. Like
    gortex2 got a reaction from PACNWComms in Have questions on a Kenwood TK-780H-1   
    1 - Proper programming software and cables
    2 - Chirp wont work. Requires Kenwood software
    3 - No diode to cut or shot. Hook up cable and program.
    KPG-46 Programming cable
    KPG-60D Programming software
     
     
  16. Like
    gortex2 reacted to PACNWComms in Russian and Ukrianian Radios   
    In the military I went from Motorola for commercial radios, then worked as an engineer in the JVC/Kenwood Group. I stay away from anything made when too many former Microsoft software engineers were hired.....2012-2017 or so. Now, I am back to Motorola. 
    My XPR7550e was $505 to y door from Sunny Communications. XPR7580e's are $385 plus tax/shipping, also great radios. I also use XPR6550's and XPR6580's, I totally agree those are great for amateur use, and even cheaper now that the are "end of support" by the big M. Since batteries are readily available, I have recommended the 6550 for many GMRS users, as a solid radio, if you do not mess with programming all the time, or travel the country and need to make changes (I do not assume everyone has CPS and cables, even though those are getting cheaper too.)
    As for Ukraine, it did not surprise me much to see DMR in use, I had to buy a pile of XiR8668 (Asian market XPR7550) for a project a few years ago. With the new R7, Motorola is keeping the name the same worldwide, no DP4x00 for eastern Europe, XiR86xx for Asia, and XPR75xx for the Americas, all being the same hardware.
  17. Thanks
    gortex2 got a reaction from Radioguy7268 in Have questions on a Kenwood TK-780H-1   
    1 - Proper programming software and cables
    2 - Chirp wont work. Requires Kenwood software
    3 - No diode to cut or shot. Hook up cable and program.
    KPG-46 Programming cable
    KPG-60D Programming software
     
     
  18. Thanks
    gortex2 got a reaction from Hans in FCC Report & Order - GMRS License Fee Lowered to $35   
    EFFECTIVE DATE OF NEW APPLICATION FEE RATES FOR THE WIRELESS TELECOMMUNICATIONS BUREAU
    MD Docket No. 20-270
    On December 23, 2020, the Commission adopted a Report and Order implementing a new application fee schedule which significantly updated the Commission’s previous fee schedule. As indicated in the 2020 Application Fee Report and Order, the new application fee rates will become effective when the Commission’s “information technology systems and internal procedures have been updated, and the Commission publishes notice(s) in the Federal Register announcing the effective date of such rules.” On July 6, 2021, the Commission announced the new application fee rates for the Office of Engineering and Technology and the Media Bureau would become effective on July 15, 2021, and on December 15, 2021, the Commission announced the new application fee rates for the Wireline Competition Bureau, the Enforcement Bureau, the International Bureau, and CALEA Petitions would become effective on December 15, 2021. This Public Notice announces that the new application fee rates for the Wireless Telecommunications Bureau, codified at 47 CFR § 1.1102, will become effective on April 19, 2022. Wireless application fees can be paid through the Commission’s Universal Licensing System (ULS) at Universal Licensing System.
     
    Full document can be downloaded here - https://www.fcc.gov/document/effective-date-wireless-application-fee-rates
     
  19. Like
    gortex2 got a reaction from wayoverthere in Need help please   
    Go to FCC - 
    https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLicense.jsp
    Change Search = NAME (Last Name, First normally.
     
  20. Like
    gortex2 got a reaction from SteveShannon in Need help please   
    Go to FCC - 
    https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLicense.jsp
    Change Search = NAME (Last Name, First normally.
     
  21. Like
    gortex2 reacted to PACNWComms in GMRS cost   
    That's the truth, just licensed two commercial sites in Florida and one in Colorado, thousands of dollars for UHF spectrum. Luckily no towers, repeaters, combiners, or duplexers needed, just spectrum for line-of-site comms.
    However, the Colorado site was using Midland T70 radios and wondering why they were not working well. Half million square foot warehouse and acreage around the facility. Some were in low power mode, others high power. Sent them some trusty old but great condition Motorola EX500's at higher power. Just needed licensed freq's for commercial use.
  22. Like
    gortex2 got a reaction from PACNWComms in GMRS cost   
    GMRS and Ham are different services. GMRS is about  50 cents a day. Just pay for the license like everyone else. GMRS is cheap compared to a LMR license. 
  23. Like
    gortex2 reacted to marcspaz in Phone Number   
    @WRPG591 What's your problem?  You are new to this public forum, but I am guessing you're not new to the internet.  @Sshannon provided an answer, @PACNWComms expanded on the why, and then a couple of us confirmed those points made by the first two.
    If you don't like it when people try to help or contribute content, this group might not be a good fit for you.
  24. Like
    gortex2 reacted to H8SPVMT in Is There A Road Channel For GMRS?   
    With general folks out running the roads around town a dedicated channel can work loosely as a club (per say) to shout out to other members.  But when we put a couple hundred Jeeps out in the woods on trails, each have to have their own channels.  And then there just isn't enough channels for a congested location for 40-75 square miles.
    A draw back here is when you start hearing a call for assistance on another trail using the same channel, but miles away and mistaken it for someone on your trail ....
     
  25. Like
    gortex2 reacted to Lscott in GMRS cost   
    If you can't afford the $70 license fee you likely can't afford to buy a radio either. That solves both problems.
    At $70 that's just $7 a year or $0.134615 per week. You likely have spent more than that buying something at the local Golden Arches food emporium.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Guidelines.