NCRick

Practice what you will use. Use what you practiced.
 
Even if people would be allowed to use the radio in an emergency, they will not have had any practice.
GMRS is fine for the technology (in spite of what some hams will tell you). You just have to manage the licensing. And, now that it is $3.50 a year....

I stumbled onto this video on YouTube tonight about the WLW radio station that for a few years in the early 1940's ran with 500,000 watts of power.
 
https://youtu.be/CbHjcwIoTiY
 
It was so powerful that it covered about 3/4 of the United States, and extended considerably into Canada. In fact, Canada filed a complaint because it just overpowered one of its own beloved stations. WLW had to setup two suppressor towers to decrease their reach in that particular direction. Its quite a fascinating video. Enjoy.

Hi All,
 
As a followup to the tests I wrote about  in an earlier post, today I hooked up my Surecomm SW-102 to the Midland MXT275 and ran tests with both of the antennas. I didn’t expect the SWR variation I got using different frequencies. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can forward a possible explanation….
 
All the test were performed in an open area, using the Midland MXTA12 Antenna Mag Mount with the original cable length.  The antenna is mounted behind the moon roof in the center of  the rear portion of the roof with steel dimensions of 14 x 40 inches. The rear tailgate/spoiler roof is behind that steel roof, and is about the same dimensions. That portion of the roof is non magnetic (some sort of plastic), and houses all the vehicle antennas (GPS, Wireless, AM/FM, Cellular) with a flat aerodynamic, raised hump in the center. The distance from the hump to the antenna mount is about 10 inches. All those system radios were operating at the time of this test, except for Cellular.
 
I still have not received the 1/4 wave Laird whip I ordered. I will test that antenna as soon as I receive it. Should have it in about ten days as it seems to be back ordered.
 
The results:
 
Midland MXTA25 – “3 DB” Ghost:
 
Channel   1 - 462.5625 – SWR 1.08
Channel 16 - 462.575 – SWR 1.14
Channel 22 - 462.725 ­– SWR 1.15
Channel 15RP – 467.5500 – SWR 1.72
Channel 18RP – 467.6250 – SWR 1.74
Channel 22RP – 467.7250 – SWR 1.74
 
Midland MXTA26 – “6 DB” 32” Whip
 
Channel   1 - 462.5625 – SWR 1.11
Channel 16 - 462.575 – SWR 1.24
Channel 22 - 462.725 ­– SWR 1.21
Channel 15RP – 467.5500 – SWR 1.01
Channel 18RP – 467.6250 – SWR 1.01
Channel 22RP – 467.7250 – SWR 1.01
 
All the best,
 
JAS

Unsolicited comment: midland sells a heck of a lot of radios so it is likely they have quite a lot of influence over whoever is manufacturing the radios for them.  There is at least a chance, that they own or have some kind of stake in such a business and some other radios are offshoots of their efforts or directions.  I'm thinking that we, the people on this forum may not totally be in the mainstream when wanting to connect a computer to the GMRS radio in our Jeep or whatever.  If I was Midland, having to certify, market and support these types of radios I doubt customer low-level programming is something I would find advantageous.  I'd want a fool-proof, reliable radio with compatible accessories.
 
having said that, I want programming access to my MXT400 but to be sure, I have not run into real limitations with it yet.  I'm going to guess it is transmitting in the wide band mode on repeaters just because it sounds strong. With my suboptimally  mounted Midland 6db whip antenna, yesterday I reached a repeater 40+ miles away.
 
im not bashing commercial radios but I'm not dissatisfied in having purchased a nice clean new radio from Midland directly with super fast service vs me having to dig the Cooties out of some icky old taxi cab radio. 
 
sorry for the rant but sometimes a different point of view can be worth considering.

Yep.  I am in VA and distracted driver laws do not apply to two-way radios at all.  Licensed or not.

Looking at this page: https://fccid.io/WVTWOUXUN16 I see that 467MHz channels are below 300mW and narrow-band. As it should be! Make sure you are testing on 462MHz channels and on wide-band.
 
I did similar test with my equipment some years ago. I have Kenwood TK-3170 with a proper receiver, not the "radio-on-a-chip" kind. Antenna is stock 1/4 wave.
1. HT-HT, flat suburbia, almost no trees, 1-2 story buildings: 1 mile reliable, after that unpredictable.
2. HT-HT, flat field, no trees: 1.5 miles reliable, after that quickly drops to nothing. At 2 miles it's nothing.
3. HT-HT, dense coastal redwood forest: 0.5 miles is a max. You can go to 1 mile maybe if one HT is elevated on the edge of the canyon or something like this.
4. HT-HT, rocky canyons: unpredictable. Could be 1 mile, with no line of sight.
 
Same HT with TK-880H mobile (40W), antenna 5/8 wave on a flat roof of SUV
5. HT-Mobile, flat suburbia, almost no trees, 1-2 story buildings: 4 miles reliable, after that unpredictable.
6. HT-Mobile, flat field, no trees: 5 miles reliable, after that quickly drops to nothing. However, if one of the points elevated, then range is much longer. Max range I had a chance to test with this combination was around 10 miles.
7. HT-Mobile, dense coastal redwood forest: 1.5 miles is a max. However, if you hike above the tree line with your HT, range becomes very long. I haven't been able to hike far enough from the parked car (maintaining LOS) to not have a somewhat reliable communication.
8. HT-Mobile, rocky canyons: unpredictable and surprisingly long range. My personal best - crystal clear voice at 2 miles (as crow flies) and 1200 feet of mountain range between HT and car. It was at Pinnacles park, car was at Chaparral parking (west side of the range) and I was at Old Pinnacles trailhead on the east side of the range, for those who know the place.
 
Same HT with TK-880H mobile (40W), no-gain antenna 25' above ground: no sport to test. It covers pretty much the whole valley where I live. In some places there is a shadow from big buildings, but besides that it is mostly reliable with static at the range of 8 miles.

You obviously have an adapter of some type, going from the HT's (assuming SMA or reverse SMA) to the antenna cables (N/SO239/etc.).  I am curious if one of the adapters are damaged or has very high losses?  I would find a shop that can test them for you.
 
I live in an area where the average elevation change for about 40+ miles in any direction is about 200'.  Depending on where I am, my handhelds talk anywhere from as little as 1 mile with noticeable static on the back half of the mile, all the way out to repeater 22+ miles away.
 
You have to keep a few things in mind.  Assuming all your gear is perfect, you are only going to talk a max of about 15% further than the visible horizon.  Also, in densely populated areas there is a lot of RF interference from homes, businesses, electrical lines, even traffic lights have two-way radios on them now.  All of this will desensitize your receiver and your transmitted signal gets harder to hear.
 
So, if you are 5'5" tall and you hold the radio in front of your head, on a perfectly flat location, the RF horizon is only about 4.5 miles.  If you have a 100' high hill a mile in front of you and you want to talk to someone on the other side, its not going to work. 
 
I have seen mobile to mobile comms with 200+ watts on each end, fail on Amateur radio UHF band segments, with as little as a 150' hill being between me and the other station.

Unsolicited comment: midland sells a heck of a lot of radios so it is likely they have quite a lot of influence over whoever is manufacturing the radios for them.  There is at least a chance, that they own or have some kind of stake in such a business and some other radios are offshoots of their efforts or directions.  I'm thinking that we, the people on this forum may not totally be in the mainstream when wanting to connect a computer to the GMRS radio in our Jeep or whatever.  If I was Midland, having to certify, market and support these types of radios I doubt customer low-level programming is something I would find advantageous.  I'd want a fool-proof, reliable radio with compatible accessories.
 
having said that, I want programming access to my MXT400 but to be sure, I have not run into real limitations with it yet.  I'm going to guess it is transmitting in the wide band mode on repeaters just because it sounds strong. With my suboptimally  mounted Midland 6db whip antenna, yesterday I reached a repeater 40+ miles away.
 
im not bashing commercial radios but I'm not dissatisfied in having purchased a nice clean new radio from Midland directly with super fast service vs me having to dig the Cooties out of some icky old taxi cab radio. 
 
sorry for the rant but sometimes a different point of view can be worth considering.

Words of wisdom.
 
 
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

Please report if you do try one. Because of a changed mounting location we can't attribute the performance completely to the Laird Phantom but there was a decrease in communication distance once installed on my friend's vehicle compared to the tiny mag mount his mxt275 came with.  The MNO mount make it an easy swap when the wife isn't looking...

The TK-3173's are the same as the TK-3170's except they also do trunking, which for GMRS you don't care about anyway. Both use the same software to program them, KPG-101D Version 2.40.
 
http://www.secomwireless.com/KWLIT/LIT_TK-3173.pdf
 
I really never consider the inclusion of a battery pack that great of an extra value unless the seller states it's new. I have at least a dozen used Lithium Ion battery packs that fit the above radios, from past purchases, and several more Kenwood models. I'm in the process of testing them for capacity using an "electronic load" with a built-in battery test feature. So far the best pack tested at 79% of the spec's on the back of the pack while the worse so far is at 23%. The typical figure of 80% of new rating is generally considered the EOL, end of life, for a battery pack.
 
This is the equipment I'm using for the pack testing.
 
https://www.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDL1020X-Programmable-Electronic/dp/B07RS2B8VT
 
The packs are tested at a "C/5" rate with the low cutoff voltage of 6.00 VDC. There isn't much variation in capacity if a lower discharge rate is used with Lithium batteries. The 6.00 VDC cutoff is where the Kenwood HT's will shut down so there is no point in testing to a lower voltage.

Reynolds Wrap Heavy Duty aluminum foil.  
 
Ok, seriously, simple a/c cords do not usually present an RFI problem unless you have some devices that require a ground, but that are not grounded.  Motors can be a source of noise. But, at the signal levels you are looking for, the frequencies you are listening to (uhf) and the use of FM rather than AM, your local environment is not likely to have a significant impact on your reception.  The case where you might find problems would be trying to receive very weak “short wave” signals on a small radio with the built-in antenna.
 
If you want better reception, the best thing you could do would be to setup an outdoor antenna, and the higher, the better. You do not need anything fancy or expensive, even a DIY 1/4 wave dipole would make a huge difference. (google for build a uhf antenna)

I really like my 805G's and am impressed that I can reach a repeater 15 miles away on the stock antenna.
Switching to the Nagoya 771 antenna improved my signal to that is recommended.
I've been a ham since 1985 and my experience is that this Wouxun is a very respectable radio.
 
My radio did "desense" my wife's radio 20' away while I was talking on the repeater.
So she did not hear me talking on the repeater - just the other guy.
But I think this would be even be expected even on a Ham HT.
It's just a fact of life for hand held radios.
 
I really like the available accessories like swap-able battery packs, speaker mics, BNC adapter etc.
The powerwerx speaker mic is really nice for the money.
 
I wish it had a power level select button to reduce power at close range.
We always switch channels to the .5W group to save power when close.
Other than that I really have no complaints.
 
It would be nice if there were waterproof IP7. 
 
Nice radios.
 
Vince

Just got my 805G after T-Day and wanted to connect to my repeater in our area... had some setup issue but kept asking questions and some great guys PM me with software programing to make it happen for radio check with my repeaters operator.  
 
So if you need some input, PM me and we can walk it through....
 
I'm thankful for this forum and BTWR who lead me to 805G and willing to purchase a second one but have to ask to make should if I over look another good HT...  Only asking so I do not have buyers remorse.
 
My pros are can swap out accessories between the two 805G... great connection and sound to area repeater..  Can program it now that I know what I'm doing, I think...
 
Cons, are.... thinking.... it is Chinese, no my two adopted daughters are and husband of one is my biking and Jeeping buddy.  Still thinking...  OK it is not America made, that the best I could come up with being a buy American guy.  O I thought of another con but it is not radio fault... Can not sit in my Lazy Boy chair in the basement and reach the repeater... Have to go upstairs out of the bunker...  
 
All this to say if this is your first HT get it.... So I'm waiting until Monday to place my order for second unit with BTWR plus hopping the value accessory pack is not longer out of stock.
 
Will be listening for you...

OK. You’ve got me thinking. I started going through linked items and thought to myself. “What the heck. You just got off work and its time to let the mind rest.”
 
Anyhow, On a related note I found this little diddy that relates to the topic. It as part of this stackoverflow post:
 
https://ham.stackexchange.com/questions/3692/is-free-space-path-loss-dependent-on-frequency
 

The study of RF propagation in air is new for me so I am going to need some time to digest. It sounds like this is something you are really passionate about. What seems to make perfect sense to me is that if you radiate a given amount of power from a point source in space that the intensity of that power at some given point a given distance away would be the same, regardless of frequency. However, when considering the physical size of the capture device, larger wavelength devices feature larger capture areas thus the amount of power impacting the antenna would be greater. Using microwave dishes as an example, the dish is quite large compared to the wavelength. The dish provides a large area to capture the radiate signal to reflect, redirect and focus the energy onto a small wavelength antenna. So, because the antenna is physically small, some means is needed to capture more of the available energy.
 
Now that I am entering the ham world more seriously I imagine I studying more things like this.
 
 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Pretty much my thoughts on the 805G. Named repeaters, front panel prog for the most part, and simplicity of single band. Reach local repeaters with factory antenna and work well off-road simplex.
Still like my TK-3170 and the new Retvis 76 is ok also, but dual band takes some getting used to.. great price and good performance so far, but had fixed antenna. Will likely hand off to young grandsons for off-road use.
 
Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Interesting read for a new person such as I.  I'll comment that as a Bow-fang, MXT400 and Wouxun 805g owner, the feature-set of the 805g is perfect for what I want.  With the software and cable I have, the radio was super easy to configure for me and is set for all the normal channels (including repeater channels) and several other "extra" channels I customized as copies of the repeater channels but with the tones I want and a corespondent NAME label which is intuitively recognized by me.  Separate tones are easy as can be.  There is nothing confusing nor anything exotic.  Once programmed for our use, my wife or anyone else can pick it up and use it.  If my midland MXT400 had that functionality it would be fantastic.  The other CCR has way to many bells, whistles and associated buttons, displays and who-haas for me to remember when I'm doing anything.  I just don't like it but it's fine I suppose (it's a "part 0" radio anyhow).
 
I'll be checking into the midland software.  If it is certified for one company it should be certifiable for another. 

I like the way you think! In my business, the mantra is: "....What do you think? What do you know? What can you prove?....." In that order
 
Best,
 
JAS

Have programmed Kenwood TK-3170 and 880,  I now have 2 8180s pre-programmed from used-radios (16 channels) but will get in add some repeaters and other goodies just the same.  As stated above, lots of options with the free Kenwood software.  Mine will go in my SxS and my Cherokee XJ.  Had a blast yesterday wheeling with a gang; handed out HT and have them convinced to ditch the CB and go GMRS, especially with a few open repeaters in the area.
 
Tried Chirp for the first time today and struggled.  More novice errors than anything I suppose.
 
Good luck

I think you misunderstood what I said. I know I am not saving any money. What I said is by not having to pay for a pole, that money will be put towards the coax.

That is good to know that of you own a Midland MXT400 can be switched to wide band which make is sound so much better.  Thinking Midland was only narrow band caused me to purchase a wide band KG-805G
Jack

Hi all,
 
New here but have read a lot of you all’s posts. Great advice, thank you.
 
I'm an older pseudo-retired guy and with this COVID thing still going I have a lot of free time on hand. I forgot, and my GMRS license expired so I had to get a new one, new call sign and everything. Had the original since the mid '90s. Living in hurricane alley it was the best option then and still is. Whenever you have to leave your house behind, it’s convoy time.
 
So, after doing that, and replacing the HT radios (from the 90's) I decided to get a mobile radio.  I went with the midland MTX275 because of what I drive (see below). As most of you know it comes with a 1/4 wave 6-inch antenna, although I was surprised by the how thin the cable was, not like any coax I'd ever seen. As I found out, it's not a bad thing.
 
With lots of time on hand I decided to run some tests of the Midland antenna lineup.  The test was limited by my application. I'm driving a leased 2019 Lincoln Nautilus Black Label.  Look it up - NO holes allowed anywhere! It has a moon-roof, meaning I had to go magnetic and only have 14 inches of ground plane North/South, with the width of the roof for the sides. Mounted the radio under the driver's seat – remember, NO holes anywhere . I live on an island in Florida. Lots of homes, 5-story condos and such = lost of interference and no high spots except for bridges.
 
So, for the tests I bought the MXTA12 magnetic mount, the MXTA25 Ghost and the MXTA26 "6DB" antennas. The antenna that comes with the MXT275 comes pre-wired, so I needed Midland’s bigger NMO mount for the new antennas. The mount is three times as big, very secure, rubber booted, and with a real coax cable. Off I went to test…
 
I’m a business analyst by profession, which means that when I analyze stuff I always start with worst case.  And that’s what I did here.  The tests were done by driving away on the mobile and transmitting, starting from the front of the house and then every ¼ mile. The receiver, a lowly HT was set up outside in the worst possible location and just high enough off the ground as to mimic a sitting position.  To record the test, I set the HT right in front of my iPad and set the iPad memo app to record. Each test took about 15 minutes.
 
The results? Reception on the HT in these worst of conditions, transmitting with the antenna included with the radio was all static at 3.5 miles and cut off completely at 3.75-miles. Had a lot of static at 2.5 miles when I drove by a 2-story small shopping center adjacent to a 4-story condo in the line of sight.  I went over a 25-foot-tall bridge at 3.25 miles where the transmission was perfectly clear.
 
With the MTXA25 Ghost antenna installed, the difference in the results were measured in feet (not good).  In the clear it is clearer, but it has a lot of static in the same places as the little 6-inch included antenna. It is possible that in a best-case scenario, the opposite of what I did, it will outshine the ¼ wave antenna. In my opinion it’s not worth the extra money for that cable and antenna combo. The difference is that small. 
 
The MXTA26 ran away with the test. I believe it is a 5/8 wave antenna and it’s all of 32-inches tall and so I must stop when I get home and take it off to go in the garage (raining?). Not a reasonable thing for everyday use. I quit that test at 5-miles, it didn’t cut off like the other two, just unintelligible static. It outperformed the two other antennas both in clarity and distance by a mile. That’s a big number when trying to hit a HT in the worst conditions distance percentage wise. 
 
I did other tests, 100-mile loops with all three antennas, that was a reception test, not a transmit one. The MXTA26 still won the day. The other two were about the same.
 
After this test, and for every-day use I just ordered a Laird ¼ wave antenna, the QWB450. Only reason I did that is to keep the MXTA12 magnetic mount so I can swap between the ¼ wave and the MXTA26 when needed. I have no use for the MTXA25 Ghost.
 
Well, that’s it for me. Hope this was helpful.
 
All the best,
 
JAS

Slightly, yeah. Both channel 19, you'll receive on 462.650. on simplex (gmrs19, radio to radio), you also transmit on that frequency.
 
For duplex (rpt19, radio to repeater to radio), the radio is programmed to transmit 5mHz higher (467.650), which is where a repeater would be listening. The repeater transmits back on 462.650 (where you're listening).
 

Surprises me a little to hear, but yeah, that's exactly what it sounds like happened. I hadn't previously heard of any shipping missing the repeater presets. That said, it's fairly easy to program, and allows tx on any of the presets as long as they're inbounds for gmrs.
 
On the Mac issue, wouxun's stock software seems to get along well with wine in Linux, as I've used it with Mint Mate, so it may play well in a virtual machine.

Unfortunately, there appears to be no option for Mac OS users.

There are 128 memories. All memories are usable for storing transmit-receive capable settings. I currently have 93 programmed and I can affirm you can transmit on all of them.
 
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM
 
 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk