Change My Mind - I Don't Need Permission to Use Your Repeater

[WRYZ926]

18 minutes ago, Northcutt114 said:

My radios identify as CCR's and as such, do not have any of those features. 

You can set ANI, group ID's on quite a few CCR radios. I know you can with Wouxun radios using the Wouxun programming software. I haven't paid much attention to see if you can set those using CHIRP as I don't use ANI or group ID's.

[marcspaz]

27 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

He is probably referring to ANI, group-ID's and other self-identifying features that a lot of radios have.

 

There is a feature that some Ham radios and repeater have that use a DP-ID, which is like a MAC address for radios.  The way one of my repeaters is setup, it records the DP-IDs it hears.  The radio owner transmits so my repeater adds it to the temp cache, gives me their DP-ID and I approve that specific radio from the list, for use on my repeater.  It's the only way I found to truly limit access.  Downside is, I don't know any FCC type approved radios that have this feature.  

[UncleYoda]

25 minutes ago, Northcutt114 said:

My radios identify as CCR's and as such, do not have any of those features. 

Even the original UV-5Rs that started the CCR craze had some of that stuff (ANI, PTT-ID).  What do you have that has none?

[Northcutt114]

Just now, UncleYoda said:

Even the original UV-5Rs that started the CCR craze had some of that stuff (ANI, PTT-ID).  What do you have that has none?

Well I guess I have them but CHIRP doesn't see them? I have a handful of UV-5R's a 5RM and a Radioddity DB25G and BTech 50v2. None of them have anything like that available in CHIRP...at least that I have noticed.

 

[UncleYoda]

You should learn to use the menu on each of your radios for when Chirp isn't available.  Another I forgot is S Code - that's still on my 5RM variant too.  Of course, for ham and GMRS we don't use that stuff.

[Northcutt114]

Just now, UncleYoda said:

You should learn to use the menu on each of your radios for when Chirp isn't available.  

I do know how to use the menu. I still don't see anything in the onboard menus that say anything about "ANI" or "DP-ID." 

[UncleYoda]

I can't tell you where the settings are on every model.  On my K5+ (a 5RM type), menu 20 is for selecting S Code, but the actual code has to be entered in software.  Menu 22 chooses the timing of PTT ID, which also has to be entered in software.

 

Here's one page in Chirp(next) for a UV5R from 2012 (covers many but not all such settings):

 

[Northcutt114]

4 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

I can't tell you where the settings are on every model.  On my K5+ (a 5RM type), menu 20 is for selecting S Code, but the actual code has to be entered in software.  Menu 22 chooses the timing of PTT ID, which also has to be entered in software.

 

Here's one page in Chirp(next) for a UV5R from 2012 (covers many but not all such settings):

 

Ooooooooooooo! I learned something tonight. It's in the settings tab, eh? I was looking for it as a field in the Memories tab. Thanks for clearing that up, and yes, all of mine have it. Interesting. 

[WRKC935]

Personally, if you are a GMRS user and tie up a repeater pair with a wide area coverage repeater, effectively soiling the channel for all other users to use.  And then close the repeater to other's or require fee's to access it, well. I REFUSE to do that.  I will take my equipment off the air first.  And of course if I am pulling it down because someone decided to misbehave and pissed me off to that point. I will tell ANYONE who ask why and WHO is responsible for the dead air.

Wide area, meaning some number of COUNTIES... Not a garage repeater with a 20 foot antenna. 

Now, my read of the regulations.  And this comes from a number of different pieces of 47 and 95.  Type accepted radios have ALL repeater channels programmed into them.  They do NOT require special programming by a radio shop to access any allocated frequency or PL/DPL.  Part 90 DOES require professional programming.  And those professionals CAN get into problems with the FCC if they start sticking stuff in a radio that is NOT suppose to be there.  That can be other LMR frequencies, Public Safety frequencies or anything else that the user has no right to.  The FCC allows under part 95 for radios to go out to the consumer with all 15 repeater channels in place and the ability to program them at will.  So point 1

There is NOT a requirement in the rules, as stated here that makes a GMRS license holder get special permission to access any repeater or use any repeater pair with any PL/DPL they see fit to.  The only regulation is you can't use SIMPLEX on the repeater input frequencies.  Point 2

Per the regulations, all GMRS license holders have equal access to all allocated frequencies within the scope of their license.  Back in the day you got 2 frequencies.  One was the 'traveler channel' at 462.675 the other repeater pair was assigned to minimize interference.  So nothing that says you can't talk on the outputs. Point 3

What the FCC does state is that you can NOT generate HARMFUL interference on any frequency in the allocation.  Use of a repeater is not harmful interference.  Keying up and playing music, making noises, transmitting dead carriers, or a list of other things is 'harmful interference'  And the method that the transmissions are happening, like someone keying over someone else of course is harmful with out question.  Keying on on a GMRS repeater and giving you call sign and speaking o someone else if you are responded to is NOT harmful interference.  The FCC isn't going to see it that way, and you should know this via reading the regulations and attempting to follow them.  It you are that obtuse that you don't know what's inferred by the government, it's not the goverment's problem or concern how you think it reads,  it says what it says.  And then they are going to make a judgement call on what is and is NOT interference, harmful or otherwise. Point 4

 

So My opinion, Marc's right.  At least at a federal regulation level, there is NOTHING that says you can't

When you get into is it illegal trespassing? 

A cop can no more write a speeding ticket to a commercial jet pilot when they fly over their jurisdiction, that they can enforce use of the airways.  That all falls on the FCC and their discretion.  Now, an uninformed cop might try to do something with it until the guilty party tells them they are out of their jurisdiction and have no ability to enforce federal regulation.  That may or may not work in the moment, but once people with actual knowledge of this stuff become involved like judges and prosecutors, the only thing that happens is the overzealous cop gets his jurisdiction sued for false arrest, imprisonment and a bunch of other crap.  

Some cities have laws that forbid the possession of equipment that is programmed specifically for their owned radio system.  But then it's the police being interfered with and NOT GMRS.  And the police can be brought into court over their misuse of frequencies.  I know of a dept that was using 151.625 which is a 2 watt itinerant frequency as a dispatch frequency at 100 watts.  Their all knowing radio guy did it, and never really bothered to explain what he had done.  They were complaining about others being on their frequency, which wasn't 'theirs'. When we figured out what had been done, there was a call placed to the high ups at the dept about it and it got quickly dealt with.  But they DID get a letter from the FCC soon after since someone had turned them in.  But here again.  GMRS user on GMRS frequencies is NOT any of these situations.  If they have the license, they are good.  If they are on FRS radios with no license, again.  They are good.  Nothing enforceable.

The BS that Kentucky has on the books about radios in vehicles is so poorly written that a cordless phone could be in violation of their laws if they have a single low band licensed frequency anywhere in the state.  Their law doesn't say programmed, it says capable of being used on.  Yes, a real radio person could modify a cordless phone to hear and talk on low band.  If it ever gets fought to a federal level, the state would loose.

And if you want to REALLY make a cop mad,  take an old X band radar detector and modify it to TX and RX FM audio.  Of course no one uses X band any more, but when they did, talking (ham call IDing) and it coming out their radar unit WILL get you pulled over,,, but hams DO have an allocation on that frequency as a secondary user and if you are operating as a ham operator, it's ultimately legal.  And made a pretty good jammer to boot.

 

 

 

[WRKC935]

So then we get into the 'redneck rectification' part of it where the owner shows up at the GMRS users home.

I was having this discussion about HOA board members and 'enforcement agents' that don't understand the law.  Feel that THEY are the law. Or in some cases are a narcissist.  You take a state like Florida that is fully in support of stand your ground and Castle Doctrine, and show up to a users house there. 

So you are one 'get the F out of here' from being trespassed.  If you refuse to leave, you are already breaking the law.  Criminal trespass is when the police write you a notice.  But as soon as the property owner tells you to leave and you refuse, it's trespassing.  It's not at a criminal level, but it's still illegal. 

But you are pissed and they are talking on YOUR repeater.  As mentioned above,  FCC has jurisdiction, NO ONE ELSE, including police.  It's no more trespassing on your repeater than a pilot flying over a road is speeding.  So you are really pissed and refuse to leave.  Then decide to make threats, or your REALLY dumb and have made threats over the air or some other method of communication that is loggable, record-able and presentable in a court of law.  So we now have threats, are on their property and are refusing to leave.  GMRS operator is also a gun owner.  But your pissed, he's used YOUR repeater.  So you approach him in a way that HE believes is threatening... and it all goes to hell quick.  You are going to the hospital or worse.  You figure you will sue, if you survive.  Tapes are played of you threatening him.  Other's that were on the repeater are called to the stand to say they heard the threats.  You weren't at a neutral location, you were at HIS property / home/ whatever.  Key word is HIS.  And you after all that approached in a threatening manner. 

So how mad are you about him being on your 'private repeater' again?

HOA people sometimes do similar dumb stuff.  It's not gone down this road that I am aware of, but it certainly can and probably will. 

Point is don't be that guy.  Oh yeah, and don't think this means you need to go carrying a gun into this situation.  Then you have committed multiple crimes while armed.  Most states make all those mid-level crimes felonies.  So even if you get your head straight and don't end up shot.  You're going to prison, for some time.  You convinced it's that important  they aren't on your repeater?

 

[SteveShannon]

3 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

No. This has never (at least in the last 15+ years) happened.

and I am not a lawyer, and I'm not saying he's wrong... But I do question Mr. @SteveShannon's interpretation of how it works. 

I don’t think I provided any kind of interpretation. All I think I did is provide citations from official government websites. 

[GreggInFL]

Can the PTT-ID (or similar) be detected by the repeater and used as a filter, like a tone? If so it would be one way to limit access on a private repeater used by a small community -- would not work for something large as the ID would eventually get passed around.

[LeoG]

If the repeater had a DTMF decoder you'd put it on BOT and have that along with the repeater tone for double security.

[RayDiddio]

On 9/3/2025 at 3:39 AM, SteveShannon said:

Has anyone complained to the FCC about prohibited persons using their repeater?  If we don’t know of any such complaints then we don’t know if FCC would enforce the rule. Someone has to complain before the FCC will respond and their first response is required to be a letter usually. But I agree that the FCC has not enforced the rule.

I can tell you that the repeater association (ham, not GMRS) I belong to had been dealing with someone transmitting music every night at the start of a pretty big daily net. Months of it happening, repeated complaints to FCC and zero action or even a response. A little harmful interference is nothing big to them. 

It took tracking them down and knocking on their door to ask them to stop while handing them copies of the FCC "rules" on such matters. 

It stopped. Not because of the FCC rules, but because they realized that you can be found. 

[LeoG]

Not easy to find someone doing intermittent keying. But to just play music?  Just sending out a beacon saying come get me.