Multi use radios?

[TNFrank]

I understand radios are approved for certain use cases(HAM, GMRS, MURS, etc.)but why can't a radio be designed to be "legal" for use on any/all Bands so you can simply program it for what you want/need to use it for. 

I know many use HAM HT's "out of Band" on GMRS and MURS so why not come up with a "one and done" radio that'll be compliant on everything?  Is there some reason this can't be done? 

[WRYS709]

20 minutes ago, TNFrank said:

I know many use HAM HT's "out of Band" on GMRS and MURS so why not come up with a "one and done" radio that'll be compliant on everything?  Is there some reason this can't be done? 

Prohibition in FCC Rules.

[WRUE951]

49 minutes ago, TNFrank said:

I understand radios are approved for certain use cases(HAM, GMRS, MURS, etc.)but why can't a radio be designed to be "legal" for use on any/all Bands so you can simply program it for what you want/need to use it for. 

I know many use HAM HT's "out of Band" on GMRS and MURS so why not come up with a "one and done" radio that'll be compliant on everything?  Is there some reason this can't be done? 

You have a good point.  Most decent radios can be programed to comply within the specific band designated by the FCC.   i.e. My commercial radios are programmed to comply with FCC requirements for the frequencies is use.   And I exclude any frequency not permited for mobile use.    But the problem and reason the FCC does not permit this,  Not everyone is going to program their radios to FCC specifications. 

[nokones]

That radio does exist today and will cover all of those bands. Unfortunately, it is not a $16 cheap POS Pandaland radio and you won't find these radios in a Walmart type store.

[tcp2525]

Why worry about it? Just buy a shiny new Anytone 878 and program in all the fun bands and enjoy. I hope you didn't cut the tags and labels off your mattress as the mattress police will incarcerate you.

[Lscott]

14 hours ago, TNFrank said:

I understand radios are approved for certain use cases(HAM, GMRS, MURS, etc.)but why can't a radio be designed to be "legal" for use on any/all Bands so you can simply program it for what you want/need to use it for. 

I know many use HAM HT's "out of Band" on GMRS and MURS so why not come up with a "one and done" radio that'll be compliant on everything?  Is there some reason this can't be done? 

They can. In fact the radio I use frequently for Ham and GMRS has Part 90 and 95 certifications. Ham has no transmit certification. 

The problem is if any significant design changes/upgrades are made to the radio the manufacture has to pay for the testing for all of the previous FCC parts. Most are to lazy and also don't want to spend the money.

The last one comes down to market share. Some of the services are not popular enough for a major manufacture to bother with designing and getting the required certification. Don't forget they are also looking at selling the same radio in different markets around the world, many with significant differences in requirements. 

Just look at Kenwood's NX-1300 series. By tweaking the frequency range, maybe antennas, and loading different versions of the firmware they sell a "distinct" product around the world using one underlying hardware design. Including more bands just makes it even more complex when changes are required.

 https://comms.kenwood.com/common/pdf/download/NX1K_Specsheet_K.pdf

https://www.kenwood.com/sg/com/lfr/tk-3701d_pmr446/pdf/TK-3701D_Brochure_SG_Market.pdf

https://www.kenwood.com/au/com/lmr/tk-3710/pdf/TK-3710_CB_LMR Portable.pdf

[LeoG]

The TD-H3 has two modes, Ham and GMRS.  When you are in either mode it follows the rules for those bands.  It does have a 3rd mode that is unlimited and will transmit on everything the radio is capable of.

[PACNWComms]

The reason I bought a demo unit, Harris XG-100P many years ago, the many bands that they were approved to operate within.....and I still use it sometimes today. Granted it was still $1200 for the radio and version 14 Radio Programmer. Great deal then, as it is now too. 

Brough to the public about a decade ahead of /\/\otorola's APX8000 too. 

I also have a "cheap" Anytone 878 variant for MURS/FRS/GMRS use. 

[Jaay]

2 hours ago, LeoG said:

The TD-H3 has two modes, Ham and GMRS.  When you are in either mode it follows the rules for those bands.  It does have a 3rd mode that is unlimited and will transmit on everything the radio is capable of.

The Wouxun 935H does this as well. 

[WRTC928]

I don't understand FCC's logic for not permitting this. Perhaps someone can enlighten me. Of course, if I had (hypothetically) an AnyTone AT-5888UVIII and programmed it with frequencies in the GMRS, MURS, 70cm, 1.25m, and 2m bands, nobody would know what radio I was using and I could operate with impunity. Hypothetically. I can certainly understand why someone wouldn't want to have 2 or 3 radios in their vehicle when a single radio is capable of doing everything they want.

[TNFrank]

52 minutes ago, WRTC928 said:

I don't understand FCC's logic for not permitting this. 

Me either. It seems if a radio is good for GMRS then you should also be able to use it for MURS or HAM Bands with the proper limits in place. I do understand if a radio can't be set up for those limits. My BTech 20v2 GMRS radio in my truck can't TX on any of the FRS stations because the power can't be set low enough but most if not all of my HTs have a low power setting that should make them find for the 2 watt MURS limit. 

I guess it's just a ploy to sell more radios, LOL.

[LeoG]

You can and they'll likely never catch you.  Technically it's against regulation.  But as long as the rules are followed for that particular band and you play nice I doubt they'll be hunting you down anytime soon.

[Bogieboy01]

1 hour ago, WRTC928 said:

I don't understand FCC's logic for not permitting this. Perhaps someone can enlighten me. Of course, if I had (hypothetically) an AnyTone AT-5888UVIII and programmed it with frequencies in the GMRS, MURS, 70cm, 1.25m, and 2m bands, nobody would know what radio I was using and I could operate with impunity. Hypothetically. I can certainly understand why someone wouldn't want to have 2 or 3 radios in their vehicle when a single radio is capable of doing everything they want.

If i had to guess it has more to do with power output than anything.... IE, using said 5888 for murs....murs is power limited to 2w...  if i recall, (from my 5888 dual band) the lowest power output available comes out about 7w....so grossly over the accepted use case for murs... same goes for the interstitial GMRS channels and power output...to the point i have tx locked on those channels on my 5888... 

[LeoG]

2 watts ERP, which is off the antenna, not out of the box.

[WRTC928]

1 hour ago, Bogieboy01 said:

If i had to guess it has more to do with power output than anything.... IE, using said 5888 for murs....murs is power limited to 2w...  if i recall, (from my 5888 dual band) the lowest power output available comes out about 7w....so grossly over the accepted use case for murs... same goes for the interstitial GMRS channels and power output...to the point i have tx locked on those channels on my 5888... 

Yes, I have MURS and GMRS 8-14 locked out on my radio. In the event of true emergency, it's not too hard to unlock it to transmit, and in that case, I won't care about power limits. It's highly unlikely I'll ever need to transmit on those frequencies, but it makes me feel better to know I can if necessary. 

[Bogieboy01]

17 hours ago, WRTC928 said:

Yes, I have MURS and GMRS 8-14 locked out on my radio. In the event of true emergency, it's not too hard to unlock it to transmit, and in that case, I won't care about power limits. It's highly unlikely I'll ever need to transmit on those frequencies, but it makes me feel better to know I can if necessary. 

Very true.... in a true emergency, all the rules effectively go out the window...LOL

[SteveShannon]

52 minutes ago, Bogieboy01 said:

Very true.... in a true emergency, all the rules effectively go out the window...LOL

Let’s hope not. That’s like everyone rushing through an intersection when the traffic lights go out. The chaos that could arise if people who don’t know what they’re doing begin transmitting on all the bands could make the emergency worse. 
The FCC does have emergency clauses in the regulations that allow more flexibility, but they don’t say “anything goes” for a good reason.

[PRadio]

I have a couple Tera radios that were sold as GMRS/MURS radios. I've been really happy with them. Mine actually say GMRS/MURS on the front. Now they say Recreation on the newer models. 

[LeoG]

55 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Let’s hope not. That’s like everyone rushing through an intersection when the traffic lights go out. The chaos that could arise if people who don’t know what they’re doing begin transmitting on all the bands could make the emergency worse. 
The FCC does have emergency clauses in the regulations that allow more flexibility, but they don’t say “anything goes” for a good reason.

It's only 'anything goes' if you work for the govt.

[tcp2525]

2 hours ago, Bogieboy01 said:

Very true.... in a true emergency, all the rules effectively go out the window...LOL

In an emergency my cellphone comes out and seals the deal 100% of the time. I'm  not going put myself or anyone else's life in danger by relying on a stranger on the other end of the mic, if I can even get one.

[Bogieboy01]

20 minutes ago, tcp2525 said:

In an emergency my cellphone comes out and seals the deal 100% of the time. I'm  not going put myself or anyone else's life in danger by relying on a stranger on the other end of the mic, if I can even get one.

I live about 45min from where hurricane helene tore thru tn/nc last year.... wiped out all internet and cell service for multiple weeks.... my boss's parents had thier house washed off the side of the mountain they lived on.... i would rather be able to make a simplex contact to a stranger than have a useless dead brick in my pocket... 

[TNFrank]

Ditto, Cell Service isn't always available but radio waves will ALWAYS TX out into the air. 

[Northcutt114]

2 hours ago, Bogieboy01 said:

I live about 45min from where hurricane helene tore thru tn/nc last year.... wiped out all internet and cell service for multiple weeks.... my boss's parents had thier house washed off the side of the mountain they lived on.... i would rather be able to make a simplex contact to a stranger than have a useless dead brick in my pocket... 

As someone who has friends and family in Western NC, post-Helene really opened some people's eyes to the necessity of alternative comms. Nothing worked up there for the better part of a month. No land lines, no cell, no nothing. Ham and GMRS were all people had to communicate.

 

[WRTC928]

7 hours ago, tcp2525 said:

In an emergency my cellphone comes out and seals the deal 100% of the time. I'm  not going put myself or anyone else's life in danger by relying on a stranger on the other end of the mic, if I can even get one.

Cell phone is my go-to, and so far, I haven't needed anything else. I have MURS capability in my vehicles for the same reason I have a fire extinguisher -- by the time you know you need it, it's too late to get it. Belt and suspenders. I didn't live this long by leaving stuff to chance. 

8 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

The FCC does have emergency clauses in the regulations that allow more flexibility, but they don’t say “anything goes” for a good reason.

The FCC regulations specify (IIRC) that anyone may transmit on almost any frequency when life or property is in imminent danger and other means of communication are not available. You're exactly right -- that isn't "anything goes" but it does provide a reasonable (IMO) degree of latitude for emergencies. I have public safety mutual aid frequencies in some of my radios, but I sure as heck ain't gonna play around on them. On the other hand, I'd have no problem keying up if I were truly desperate. They probably wouldn't charge me, and even if they did, I'd have to be alive to be charged, so there's that. 

[tcp2525]

8 hours ago, Bogieboy01 said:

I live about 45min from where hurricane helene tore thru tn/nc last year.... wiped out all internet and cell service for multiple weeks.... my boss's parents had thier house washed off the side of the mountain they lived on.... i would rather be able to make a simplex contact to a stranger than have a useless dead brick in my pocket... 

It all depends on the degree of emergency. The only time I ever had cell service not working is when 9/11 happened. All that congestion clogged the networks and made them unusable. I agree that with severe natural disasters simplex communication is suitable for search and rescue. Other than that, when the storm is over one can coordinate communications and use what is available. I will grab the cellphone first and have multiple radios on hand in the unlikely event cell fails.

[LeoG]

Rather use a radio than a phone.  At least your every conversation and text isn't being stored in the Utah facility.  Although I'm not calling my buddy in Oregon with my radio.