Kids comm across the neighborhood?

[WRFT720]

My sons are 4 and 6. The older one is in kindergarten, and all the schools and parks are closed for COVID-19. They're at home all day, every day. We ride bikes and whatnot, but it's not the same as going to school and hanging with friends. I'm not paying for a phone for a 6 year old. So, why not get a few families in the neighborhood to get a GMRS license so all the kids can talk to one another any time they want? They're not close enough for FRS, but I think certainly GMRS will work. We haven't even bought devices, yet. I genuinely want to know if this is a bad idea before we move forward. To me, it seems like a great way to take advantage of the current "STAY HOME" situation to get kids interested in communications. 

 

Will other GMRS users be pissed off by a bunch of kids talking to each other all day? I plan to lock all their devices on a specific frequency, so they can't annoy anyone. How do we find a semi-private frequency no one is likely to use? If we need to use a local repeater to get across a hill, is it ok to ask, or would we get laughed at, or is it too big of an ask since they'll probably talk to each other way more than adults? 

 

We live in a small town in Alabama, about 6,500 population, all within 2 miles, and situated in a valley between mountains. One subdivision is over a hill, but the whole rest of town is probably in line-of-sight. 

 

Thanks for any advice. 

[berkinet]

1) ...So, why not get a few families in the neighborhood to get a GMRS license so all the kids can talk to one another any time they want? They're not close enough for FRS, but I think certainly GMRS will work.

 

2) ...I genuinely want to know if this is a bad idea before we move forward. To me, it seems like a great way to take advantage of the current "STAY HOME" situation to get kids interested in communications. 

 

3) ...Will other GMRS users be pissed off by a bunch of kids talking to each other all day?

 

4) ...How do we find a semi-private frequency no one is likely to use?

 

5) ...If we need to use a local repeater to get across a hill, is it ok to ask, or would we get laughed at, or is it too big of an ask since they'll probably talk to each other way more than adults? 

 

 

Well, interesting post!  So, here are my thoughts - without any pre-judgement, others may, and will, vary.

 

1) If GMRS works where FRS doesn't it is just because of the power difference, and maybe the wider bandwidth. But, the downside besides having to talk other families into getting licensed (although, that is probably a good thing in-and-of itself), is more expensive equipment, heavier equipment and shorter battery life.

 

2) It is not, per-se, a bad idea. But, that does not mean it is a good idea. My guess is the kids will tire of playing radio fairly quickly. If the use of the radios was integrated into some other activity, like board games or online gaming, that might have a longer lasting appeal.  But, I do wonder if young kids will take the rules of good operation seriously and not just yell stupidities at each other for 10 minutes before tossing the radios into a drawer.

 

3) Yes, some other users will be pissed off. But, many won't. You have as much right to the channels as they do as long as you and your family operate in a legal manner.

 

4) No such thing.  But, I would not use PL. That might give the kids a sens that the channel is clear, and they might not hear someone telling them to talk less, yield the channel, etc.

 

5) FIRST, you need two ask the repeater owner, even if it is an open repeater.  But, it is always ok to ask and if the owner laughs at you, well that would be an indication of his/her poor attitude, and no mark against you.

 

Good luck and tell us how or if it goes.

[Lscott]

My sons are 4 and 6. The older one is in kindergarten, and all the schools and parks are closed for COVID-19. They're at home all day, every day. We ride bikes and whatnot, but it's not the same as going to school and hanging with friends. I'm not paying for a phone for a 6 year old. So, why not get a few families in the neighborhood to get a GMRS license so all the kids can talk to one another any time they want? They're not close enough for FRS, but I think certainly GMRS will work. We haven't even bought devices, yet. I genuinely want to know if this is a bad idea before we move forward. To me, it seems like a great way to take advantage of the current "STAY HOME" situation to get kids interested in communications. 

 

Will other GMRS users be pissed off by a bunch of kids talking to each other all day? I plan to lock all their devices on a specific frequency, so they can't annoy anyone. How do we find a semi-private frequency no one is likely to use? If we need to use a local repeater to get across a hill, is it ok to ask, or would we get laughed at, or is it too big of an ask since they'll probably talk to each other way more than adults? 

 

We live in a small town in Alabama, about 6,500 population, all within 2 miles, and situated in a valley between mountains. One subdivision is over a hill, but the whole rest of town is probably in line-of-sight. 

 

Thanks for any advice. 

This is EXACTLY what GMRS is for, family comm's and with other users. I would say go for it. Your point about locking the radios to a specific channel is also an excellent idea.

 

One it keeps the kids from messing up the channel settings and not understand why they can't talk to their friends. They WILL play with the radio buttons.

 

Second as you pointed out it also keeps them from skipping around the channels like an electronic form of hide and seek annoying the crap out of other users. I have a family near by me that does this. I never know what channel they will pop up on and sometimes change while playing radio.

 

Third you do want to make sure they don't end up on a repeater output channel. Young kids will just hit the PTT button and babble away even if the channel is in use. You can't expect kids that young to understand channel sharing. Even a low power FRS radio can wipe out the signal from a repeater if the FRS radio is close enough to another user's radio engaged in a repeater comm. FRS radios unfortunately are allowed on repeater output channels 15 through 22.

 

Forth it keeps the kids from getting "glued" to the computer screen.

 

Finally if the radio gets damaged or lost, young kids have a tendency to do both, it's likely cheaper to replace than a smart phone.

[Lscott]

but I think certainly GMRS will work. We haven't even bought devices, yet.

I forgot to point out the currently sold FRS radios are allowed to run up to 2 watts where most GMRS only radios can do 4 to 5 watts. From a practical point of view there will be a small difference between a hand-held FRS radio verses a GMRS radio. Its likely your kids will be using an FRS radio in place of a GMRS radio. FRS radios don't require a license to operate and thus an "easier sell" to the other parents in the area.

 

The main advantage to GMRS radios are a bit more power, detachable antennas and repeater access. I'm not sure it would be a good idea for a group of young kids to tie up a repeater unless it's supervised. Remember repeaters do have a wide coverage area. I don't think people 10 to 15 miles away will want to hear the kids babbling away for hours. The detachable antennas would be nice if you wanted to setup a base station.

 

If you get the Midland GMRS radios they seem to be narrow banded only and thus are compatible with FRS radios.

[axorlov]

FRS is HT<->HT (handhelds) communications. HTs are 2W max. GMRS is also HT<->HT, but also could be HT<->Base. HTs could be 5W, but they are bigger and heavier than FRS handhelds. You probably not going to get 2 miles range in town between handhelds. Half a mile is a realistic estimate. And if from inside the house, than even shorter.

 

However, your GMRS base station at home may have 20ft antenna on the roof and 50W of power. That will easily allow HT<->Base across 2 miles on simplex. And people with HTs do not necessarily need GMRS license, because GMRS<->FRS is allowed on simplex. You can check on kids when they are outside, and kids can talk to others at home. You can assign a community frequency with PL if you have enough GMRS licensees in the neighborhood.

[Jones]

All of the above posts have good points.  I think this kind of communication is exactly what FRS is for, and if the kids are locked onto one of the lesser-used channels below 8, say 6, and never move from there, they won't bother anyone.

 

As far as being able to get 2 miles on FRS, that is really unlikely, but kids will soon figure our how far they can go, and who can talk to whom at what distance, and they will by nature form a relay system... as in "Hey Sam, this is Johnny.  Tell Billy I said "POOP!" hahaha!" "Johnny, this is Sam.  Billy said "[raspberry sound effects]""  ....etc. 

 

...and if a parent wants to get a GMRS license and set up a base station to monitor it all, and jump in with the occasional "Now young ladies and gentlemen, let's be appropriate!" ...then go ahead.

 

ADVICE: Unless you happen to own majority stock in the Energizer Battery corporation, you should buy the slightly more expensive FRS/GMRS radios that have rechargeable battery packs, preferably with drop-in chargers.  If you get less expensive radios that use replaceable AAA alkaline batteries, you will spend a small fortune in the first month.

[marcspaz]

I know I personally made a comment about sharing channels with kids... but the was me just being a smart aleck. I actually think it would be a great idea.

 

I'm a dad and a grandfather, so i understand wanting to keep the kids engaged and having fun. It's a family friendly radio service by design. That said... with young people being among our most vulnerable, i would keep an ear open.

 

My amateur radio club did something similar, hosting a Kids Night net every week, on Saturday. We have our kids and grandchildren get on the radio and talk to each other. They have a great time. Some of them like it so much that they are studying to get their license.

[Elkhunter521]

The better midland FRS (used to be GMRS) are a decent 2 watt narrow band ht. I doubt a 5 watt (putting out an actual 3.8 to 4 watts) GMRS HT will perform much better without a significant antenna change.

 

Present the radios as a communication device. If the kids think they are toys, thats all they will ever be.

 

Adding a family licence package down the road along with a base station would still be an option.

 

Keith T

[krvw]

FWIW, I often hear small children on GMRS and FRS around where I live. It's a family license, so that's all legal, of course.

 

That said, etiquette is important, and more so on a shared resource like a repeater.

 

If the kids are taught well and follow the basic etiquette, I suspect the repeater community will welcome them. If not, well...

 

Good luck.

[krvw]

My amateur radio club did something similar, hosting a Kids Night net every week, on Saturday. 

 

That's a fabulous idea. Teaches them the basics in a non-threatening environment, and likely with a bit of parental supervision. I love it.

 

Cheers,

 

Ken

[chuckn]

Adults can quickly ruin a good idea.

 

I agree with the OP, having radios in the neighborhood and learning how to use them so they get the best results, is practical and fun. I would not be concerned about radio traffic. GMRS radios don't reach that far without a repeater and trying to use one seems to be more trouble than its worth unless that's your hobby. 

 

I would recommend a sturdy radio...LOL!!!!

 

For camping, if that ever happens again, I am considering one of those Midland base stations. This way if a group is out biking and another at the lake, we can converse. 

[n4gix]

I have four of these that are very inexpensive, 16 channels, chirp programmable, and shirt pocket sized.

Amazon: Price: $15.99 Prime & FREE Returns

 

Comes with wall wart charger, and very long life LiPO battery. If one gets lost or broken, you aren't out very much!

 

[berkinet]

I have four of these that are very inexpensive, 16 channels, chirp programmable, and shirt pocket sized....

 

These are also sold under several other names. The pair I have are Zastone Model X6

[kidphc]

My amateur radio club did sg similar, hosting a Kids Night net every week, on Saturday. We have our kids and grandchildren get on the radio and talk to each other. They have a great time. Some of them like it so much that they are studying to get thei l

 

That's a fabulous idea. Teaches them the basics in a non-threatening environment, and likely with a bit of parental supervision. I love it.

 

Cheers,

 

Ken

 

That is indeed awesome. Wish we had that in my neck of the woods. Even with FRS or GMRS my kids are lucky to get out more then a couple of blocks due to house density, terrain and all the trees. Well except on one side where they can be heard up and down 270 for 1/2 mile.

[scubadude85]

I have been thinking about this for my kids. Will my 4 and 8 year olds be expected to remember and use my call sign or just myself and wife?

[berkinet]

I have been thinking about this for my kids. Will my 4 and 8 year olds be expected to remember and use my call sign or just myself and wife?

FCC station identification requirements do not specify age. So, whoever is operating a radio under your license will be expected to identify per the rules. That is, after 15 minutes, then every 15 minutes, and at the end of the conversation.

 

so, to answer your question if your children are not old enough to understand when to identify they probably should not be allowed to use the radio when they are totally on their own.

[scubadude85]

Thank you

[BoxCar]

I have been thinking about this for my kids. Will my 4 and 8 year olds be expected to remember and use my call sign or just myself and wife?

 

 

FCC station identification requirements do not specify age. So, whoever is operating a radio under your license will be expected to identify per the rules. That is, after 15 minutes, then every 15 minutes, and at the end of the conversation.

 

so, to answer your question if your children are not old enough to understand when to identify they probably should not be allowed to use the radio when they are totally on their own.

You can start getting them used to the FCC requirements by having them use a pair of FRS radios. If they forget to identify it's not an issue as they are not required to use your call sign.

[berkinet]

Old and wise infers you were once young and stupid

Slight correction. Old and wise is an absolute state. Older and wiser is a comparative and does indeed imply some other, less old and wise, state. 

 

And, the English lover in me adds, the sender implies, the receiver infers.

[scubadude85]

The problem I have with FRS is the range. The park where my kids play I can see from my house FRS 95% of the time can't communicate where GMRS can all the time.

[PRadio]

The problem I have with FRS is the range. The park where my kids play I can see from my house FRS 95% of the time can't communicate where GMRS can all the time.

 

Are you using the old models that are only .5 watt? With the new rules channels 1-7, and 15-22 can be put to 2 watts. 

[scubadude85]

I do think the radios I have are .5 watts maybe 2 watts at most there old Cobra's CXT10195 FLT and have only been used on FRS.

[BoxCar]

The problem I have with FRS is the range. The park where my kids play I can see from my house FRS 95% of the time can't communicate where GMRS can all the time.

Even on the 2W channels?

[chuckn]

Depending on the child, one cannot expect a radio with a decent antenna to survive for long. For our upcoming camping activities, even if the materialize at this point, I am planing to get a four pack of durable radios to suppliment my BTECH V1's that I will let the adult moniter and use as a base camp unit. I do think for our use, the GMRS will suffice with some preplanning. It occured to me that if we are on the same channel, one group may be able to act as a repeater and communicate with a group between the base camp and the one farther away. 

 

As to what is appropriate, expected, or a FCC rule, the point of having the radio is communication, not complying to a rule. Sure, if you are an adult trying to talk to a stranger 100 miles away, by all means use your expected call sign. When it is my grand children, that is the least of my concern. 

 

And, one can be old and wise, but more often, old and contentious appears to rule the day. I wish more had a lick of sense. 

[berkinet]

... As to what is appropriate, expected, or a FCC rule, the point of having the radio is communication, not complying to a rule. Sure, if you are an adult trying to talk to a stranger 100 miles away, by all means use your expected call sign. When it is my grand children, that is the least of my concern. ...

 

You are free do do as you please. But what you cannot do is change the rules of the radio service (GMRS) you operate under. A condition of your license, that you agreed to, is to follow the rules.  

Part 95E § 95.1705

 

( Individual licensee responsibility. The holder of an individual license to operate GMRS stations is responsible at all times for the proper operation of the stations in compliance with all applicable rules in this part.

 

and

 

(d) Individual licensee duties. The holder of an individual license:

(1) Shall determine specifically which individuals, including family members, are allowed to operate (i.e., exercise operational control over) its GMRS station(s) (see paragraph © of this section);

 

It is no different than operating non-GMRS certified equipment. People are free to do as they please. But, it is not ok to tell others that is an Ok thing to do.  And, by the way, why not teach your grand-children about proper radio use? They might not only find it interesting, but they might also take the use of the radios more seriously, and even develop their own interest.