Impressed with CCR's

[Lscott]

No it's not a sarcastic comment, just an observation. I've occasionally been guilty of the same thing, blaming lack of filtering or technical short comings on "intermod".  I wanted to point out there are more reasons for poor selectivity or interference. Understanding what the underlying nature of the problem may suggest a possible solution or what radio specifications are really important. You soon learn that power isn't everything, and a bad or poor RX'er design can break a radio system. If you can't hear them what's the point?

 

Looking at the typical manufacture's spec's for many radios most never mention the above points, and with analog radios specifically the image rejection. The ARRL lab does a fairly good job of testing radios when they publish a review. You have to dig through the test results for the info. The sad part is they can't test everything out there, and it could be months or even longer before they do a test and review, if ever, on a particular model.

 

Most Ham radios have wide open RX front ends because people want to use them as cheap scanners. I use many of my radios that way, Ham and commercial. While that maybe appealing however that means a compromise in other areas. One reason why the commercial radios mostly perform better in high noise and RF heavy environments is the RX'er design. The radios are generally single band with just enough front end bandwidth to cover the commercial section of either the VHF or UHF band they were designed for and no more.

 

The forum is a place here to trade information. I like to includes links in many of my posts for background that saves a lot of typing. Why repeat the same information when somebody else has already done the job, and likely a better a writer. For my day job I've had to write technical documentation on occasion including for a patent application for a project I worked on in addition to regular design work. People always comment about the crappy manuals that come with most CCR's, well take a crack at writing a better one and publish it. I can tell you writing technical documentation is a tedious, boring and mind numbing work. Now I understand why most engineers hate doing it.

[berkinet]

...You soon learn that power isn't everything, and a bad or poor RX'er design can break a radio system. If you can't hear them what's the point?...

 

YES!  There seems to be sort of an obsession with power on GMRS. People debate over the 35 watt or the 40 watt version of some radio, and replace decently functioning connectors with silver plated N-Connectors, usable COAX with LMR400, in search of a 1:1 SWR and 0db loss in the antenna line heading to some absurdly expensive antenna with infinite gain. Yet, it is rare that someone asks about a radio's audio quality, and virtually nobody ever asks about receiver sensitivity or selectivity, etc.

 

I suspect this is something GMRS inherited from CB where power is king and people slap an amplifier on anything. Both transmit, and receive (seems nobody ever mentioned that you can amplify signal strength but not signal quality, and amplification of zero remains zero).

 

I really would like to see more concern for a good sounding radio that can meet the user's defined communication needs, rather than the biggest and best.  Dream on...

[gman1971]

Totally agree.

 

In the end its always something that prevents reception.... be it physical objects, or noise, always caused by intermod in the presence of other RF strong signals, be it the Sun, the neighbor's LED fixture, the grrr NOAA less than 1 mile from my house...all of which reduces the S.N.R. of your receiver, so you end up with nothing. Physical objects reduce the S part, and Intermod due to poor filtering, poor cables, etc) increases the N part on the SNR. Most beginners believe that having a bigger S (more powah!!) is the way to go, I thought that way too.... seems the key is to actually making the N as small as possible. Which as a side benefit, you won't be risking a swarm of black SUVs surrounding your property and seizing all your radio assets...

 

We are in agreement, forums are to trade information, and it has been an invaluable tool for me to learn.... so with that said, in my opinion, here is a pretty decent article about why filtering is needed if you hope to have any luck at the range game:

 

http://www.ittc.ku.edu/~jstiles/622/handouts/The%20Preselector%20Filter.pdf

 

Hope it helps other people like has helped me.

 

G.

 

No it's not a sarcastic comment, just an observation. I've occasionally been guilty of the same thing, blaming lack of filtering or technical short comings on "intermod".  I wanted to point out there are more reasons for poor selectivity or interference. Understanding what the underlying nature of the problem may suggest a possible solution or what radio specifications are really important. You soon learn that power isn't everything, and a bad or poor RX'er design can break a radio system. If you can't hear them what's the point?

 

Looking at the typical manufacture's spec's for many radios most never mention the above points, and with analog radios specifically the image rejection. The ARRL lab does a fairly good job of testing radios when they publish a review. You have to dig through the test results for the info. The sad part is they can't test everything out there, and it could be months or even longer before they do a test and review, if ever, on a particular model.

 

Most Ham radios have wide open RX front ends because people want to use them as cheap scanners. I use many of my radios that way, Ham and commercial. While that maybe appealing however that means a compromise in other areas. One reason why the commercial radios mostly perform better in high noise and RF heavy environments is the RX'er design. The radios are generally single band with just enough front end bandwidth to cover the commercial section of either the VHF or UHF band they were designed for and no more.

 

The forum is a place here to trade information. I like to includes links in many of my posts for background that saves a lot of typing. Why repeat the same information when somebody else has already done the job, and likely a better a writer. For my day job I've had to write technical documentation on occasion including for a patent application for a project I worked on in addition to regular design work. People always comment about the crappy manuals that come with most CCR's, well take a crack at writing a better one and publish it. I can tell you writing technical documentation is a tedious, boring and mind numbing work. Now I understand why most engineers hate doing it.

[Lscott]

Totally agree.

 

In the end its always something that prevents reception.... be it physical objects, or noise, always caused by intermod in the presence of other RF strong signals, be it the Sun, the neighbor's LED fixture, the grrr NOAA less than 1 mile from my house...all of which reduces the S.N.R. of your receiver, so you end up with nothing. Physical objects reduce the S part, and Intermod due to poor filtering, poor cables, etc) increases the N part on the SNR. Most beginners believe that having a bigger S (more powah!!) is the way to go, I thought that way too.... seems the key is to actually making the N as small as possible. Which as a side benefit, you won't be risking a swarm of black SUVs surrounding your property and seizing all your radio assets...

 

We are in agreement, forums are to trade information, and it has been an invaluable tool for me to learn.... so with that said, in my opinion, here is a pretty decent article about why filtering is needed if you hope to have any luck at the range game:

 

http://www.ittc.ku.edu/~jstiles/622/handouts/The%20Preselector%20Filter.pdf

 

Hope it helps other people like has helped me.

 

G.

 

That's a nice write up on preselector filters.

 

For anybody who has an issue with too much bandwidth on the front end you can buy a cheap bandpass filter, 0.6 MHz to 8 MHz range, to put inline between the radio and the antenna. The rejection for out of band signals is petty good at 50db. I think the vendor will tune the filter for you before shipping.  

 

http://www.409shop.com/409shop_product.php?id=125434

[gman1971]

A preselector and "front end" are pretty much interchangeable terms for all practical purposes. 

 

Thanks for the filter link...  I am sure some people will find that quite useful too.

 

Given its 3 resonators, I have my reservations that it will actually do 50 dB... Why? b/c I have several RFS 4-cavity mobile preselectors and these are, at best 50 dB, with ~ 1.6 dBm insertion loss... With that said, anything you can add to the front end of those CCRs, including that filter, will help the receiver not drown under the RF noise mayhem.

 

G.

[berkinet]

...  With that said, anything you can add to the front end of those CCRs, including that filter, will help...

 

Well, yes, but... Since that filter costs anywhere from 2x to 9x the price of the CCR it would be used with, the money would probably just be better spent of buying a decent radio in the first place.  Which is, I think, the point everyone is trying to make anyway.  

[gman1971]

@Berkinet... ABSOLUTELY, I think that for less than 90 bucks you can actually buy used EVX-531 UHF on eBay, those EVX radios will draw rings around anything CCR. From the circuit schematics it appears the EVX line has a better front end than even the 578... so, a no-screen 531 will beat nearly all CCRs... And if you want screen you can find the EVX-534, or the EVX-S21 I think... which has one, those are dirt cheap too. The EVX-539s are nice, but the keypad is kinda useless unless you want to do DTMF stuff... its also missing a keypad speed dial through it...  Out of all the radios I've tested the EVX line stacks very well even against the might 5550e... which is, for the lack of a better word, on a league of its own... 

 

G.

 

Well, yes, but... Since that filter costs anywhere from 2x to 9x the price of the CCR it would be used with, the money would probably just be better spent of buying a decent radios in the first place.  Which is, I think, the point everyone is trying to make anyway.  

[mbrun]

You know it is absolutely amazing what a repeater can do to pick out a 5w HT out of the noise when at the same time the HT is only receiving marginal signal from a 50w repeater. The improved selectivity of the repeater Rx combined with the filtering provided by duplexers makes a huge difference.

 

It has been said that some high-end HT have excellent selectivity as well. I hope some day to experience the real-world difference between one of those and the current generation CCR. If I knew I could better than double my HT-HT range because of the improved receiver performance of a higher end HT, I would be budgeting for new radios.

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Lscott]

A preselector and "front end" are pretty much interchangeable terms for all practical purposes. 

 

Thanks for the filter link...  I am sure some people will find that quite useful too.

 

Given its 3 resonators, I have my reservations that it will actually do 50 dB... Why? b/c I have several RFS 4-cavity mobile preselectors and these are, at best 50 dB, with ~ 1.6 dBm insertion loss... With that said, anything you can add to the front end of those CCRs, including that filter, will help the receiver not drown under the RF noise mayhem.

 

G.

The following link is a test of one of those cheap Chinese “notch-plexers” you see being sold. You can buy them from the same source as the bandpass filter. They sell for around $100 depending on power requirements. Used with a couple of “clean” HT’s and a simple duplex repeater controller makes for a cheap repeater for noncritical locations. This is basically what’s in that Retivis repeater being discussed elsewhere on the forum. 

 

What I like was the temperature testing to see how “stable” they are. People forget the cavities change dimensions with temperature thus the tuning will change. 

 

http://www.repeater-builder.com/antenna/pdf/chinese-mobile-duplexer-measurements.pdf

[gman1971]

Well, you can, a used XPR6550 UHF can be found for under 100 bucks on Ebay, 130 with charger, and those XPR6550 have amazing receivers. You can easily get 2 1/2 miles out of those talkies ground to ground (no repeater) under most circumstances with the PMAE4048A antenna. (Good for GMRS)

 

G.

 

You know it is absolutely amazing what a repeater can do to pick out a 5w HT out of the noise when at the same time the HT is only receiving marginal signal from a 50w repeater. The improved selectivity of the repeater Rx combined with the filtering provided by duplexers makes a huge difference.

It has been said that some high-end HT have excellent selectivity as well. I hope some day to experience the real-world difference between one of those and the current generation CCR. If I knew I could better than double my HT-HT range because of the improved receiver performance of a higher end HT, I would be budgeting for new radios.

Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[gman1971]

@LScott, thanks for these curves! Good to know. I think most people should invest in radio infrastructure rather than in POS CCRs... Notch-plexers are good when used with a preselector, since the duplexer won't really shield the receivers from the other unwanted RF coming from the antenna.

 

G.

[jec6613]

One other trouble not often talked about with CCRs is that they're plastic. Which isn't necessarily bad per se, but the antenna tends to be searching for its other 1/4 wave and not finding it. Better radios have a 1/4 counterpoise built into the radio, or just use the radio body.

 

Hence the use of tiger tails improving some radios but not at all for others.

 

Or one can just get a half wave center loaded for an HT, but those tend to be long.

[daschnoz]

I've been on a few hobby specific web sites. They all have their brand snobs. Whether it's firearms, outdoor power equipment, model railroad, and now radio... if it's not some preferred brand, it's garbage. I've learned to ignore it, but to many noobs this attitude is a turn off. They ask the question, 'on my $xx budget, what should I buy', then look at the products suggested by the brand snob, look at the price, then seek another hobby. I see threads and hear discussions about amateur radio (in all its forms) slowly becoming extinct because of expanding cell phone coverage. Making the newly interested feel that what they can afford is not welcome in the hobby does not make for 'good business'.

 

Ok, so the Chineese radios are not great, but don't knock them. They are the entry point for many, because for only slightly more than $100 you can have a radio and a GMRS license. If you don't like it, you're only out around $100. If you do enjoy the hobby, you can drop the coin and upgrade to a better radio. These "CCRs" are my entry point and I am enjoying this hobby. I expect that I will upgrade to better equipment at some point, but at the moment, I'm running what I can afford; what I can afford to lose if I don't like it.

[Lscott]

The point about using CCR’s as an entry to the radio hobby, because it’s low cost, until one figures out if they really like it or not is valid.

 

However the flip side of the coin has to do with real world performance. Most of the CCR’s perform poorly in the receiver section, low sensitivity, susceptible to overloading, poor selectively etc. A newbie, with no prior two way radio experience, their poor perception of radio communications is due to the budget priced radios poor performance and not really a representative example. That alone may convince them it’s not worth continuing down the road all because of a poor choice of equipment to start out with, and they don’t even know it.

[berkinet]

... They all have their brand snobs. Whether it's firearms, outdoor power equipment, model railroad, and now radio... if it's not some preferred brand, it's garbage....

I understand the observation. However, I think the analogy may be a bit off-base on two counts.

 

1) Regardless of snob appeal, or whatever, nobody buys: a gun that doesn't shoot straight or blows up in your face; a power mower that is known to remove toes; or model railroad cars that won't stay on the track. The issue there is indeed one of basic utility vs. a more refined and (perhaps) more artistic, even gilded approach. But, low to high, all the options are still expected to deliver the basic functionality. In the case of some CCRs. While they may appear to work to the first time user, they may be actually failing in two important ways: causing interference to other users, and very poor reception making the radios significantly less useful.

 

2) In the examples you have cited, brand is the issue. That is still somewhat the case in radio. But, it is even more so a question of overall quality. Rather than a differentiation based on brand names, it is based on two broad categories. Inexpensive products based on a very simple "radio on a chip" design (CCRs), versus professional quality products. While different people have their favorites, there is no commonly accepted "you must have" brand. And where one brand seems more popular, Kenwood in the case of GMRS, it is for practical reasons like availability, especially used, access to programming software and general support from a larger user group.

 

When it comes to the discussions on this forum, I have found that rather than snob appeal visa-a-vis price, it is often quality that is the prime consideration. For example, while people may often recommend the "big" names, like Motorola, Kenwood, Icom, Vertex, etc., they also recommend buying that equipment used, where the prices may be very close to the price of new CCR equipment. And for that small price difference, you may get not only much better quality, but also very practical features like expanded memory slots. This seemingly minor feature suddenly becomes critical when, for example, you have 2 rep[eaters you use on the same frequency, but with different access codes. On the typical CCR you can program one, or the other, but not both. With a more capable radio, each can be assigned it's own "channel" with a corresponding screen display.

 

I encourage you to take a little more time looking through the discussions on this site before making up your mind that the suggestions for different radio gear is just snobbism or maybe more practical in nature.

[AdmiralCochrane]

I've never found better made radios close to the price of CCR's, usually double  or triple to move up, sometimes 4 or 5 times. 

 

My "junk CCR's" performance has been only marginally worse than the name brand Japanese radios I have replaced them with, maybe I have been lucky. 

 

CCR's are an entry point to the hobby.  

The firearms comparison isn't close, a High Point pistol often doesn't function at all, much less poorly. 

[mbrun]

This discussion has gotten me to wonder if there is an unbiased independent ‘Consumer Reports’ like group that performs high-quality objective measurements and practical A-B tests of radios.

 

If said group exists, I wonder if they would be able to shed light on the degree to which some radio brands and models objectively perform better than others. Such information could help folks make decisions based on more than price.

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[berkinet]

I've never found better made radios close to the price of CCR's, usually double  or triple to move up, sometimes 4 or 5 times. 

There are plenty of good used quality brand name HTs on ebay at well under $50. BTW, it depends on which CCR you compare prices with. Right now on Amazon the lowest priced radios, 16 channel, no display, are at least $15. On ebay there are several Motorola P1225s listed starting $19. Though you might have to buy an antenna, battery and charger with the super low priced ones. You can easily get a working, ready to go, P1225 for under $40. OTOH, the P1225 is certified for GMRS. And, as far as I know, none of the really cheap CCRs are GMRS certified. Once you add certification, the CCR prices jump to over $50.

 

And keep in mind, GMRS certification is not just snob appeal. It actually means something. Sure, in some cases it just means the radio has limited front panel programming capabilities. But, in other cases, it means the radio is not complete shit.

[gman1971]

Well...totally, the argument about a CCR being your first or 2nd radio, be it a BF-888s, an UV-5R, or a GT-3 like I stated with... its totally valid. Nobody is arguing that, not even me. I started with CCRs, but you calling me a brand snob is simply not true. I've ISOTEE tested every radio I own, and not just a "can you hear me now test", I've performed ISOTEE testing, which dispels any doubt about receiver quality. On a spectrum analyzers you can see those CCRs tell the story about RF spurious garbage all over the place, which can, and will damage your expensive electronics, like monitors, or TVs if you are unlucky enough to hit the PTT near any of them... and yes, its happened to me... 

 

The problem with CCRs is that most beginners, after getting a taste of what repeaters can do they immediately jump to the conclusion that the more expensive CCRs, with screens and million contacts, et all. will better, when that is simply NOT TRUE.

 

I'll reiterate, I started with CCRs, and I still own more CCRs than I care to admit... which for the most I just can't get rid of them b/c I would have to sell them at such a loss that even shipping would make the profit nearly zero or negative for most of those.... I guess I am now a "2nd hand" Motorola / Vertex Standard brand snob... b/c buying a 2nd hand XPR6550 for 70 bucks in mint condition, with its charging cradle, with an IMPRES battery that is basically new, and a windported genuine Motorola shoulder microphone is just so much more expensive than buying a 100 dollar Wouxun PIECE OF GARBAGE. Your POS Wouxun is worth 40 bucks on the used market, that is if anyone wants to touch it with a 10-foot pole... my XPR6550 can probably be sold for about 150 bucks, and still the person who gets it will think he, or she, came ahead, and so did I.

 

In the end, you can do whatever you want, you can call me, and others, brand snobs or whatever else you want until you turn up of any particular color, of your liking, but that is not going to make your CRRs perform any better than any of my (2nd hand, used) XPR7550e I own now. 

 

The fallacy of, I don't have enough funds... is just that, a pure BS fallacy, an excuse to be cheap... I was a cheap, and I bought more than twice.... It is of my observation that people these days seem to have plenty of money to do things wrong, many times, but not enough money to do things right, just once. 

 

With that said, and to conclude, if I could do this all over again, knowing what I know now, I would've just listened to these people who were telling me exactly what I am telling in this thread. "Go with brands like Motorola, Kenwood..." nah... I thought I knew better too... 

 

I'll knock CCRs any day of the week, they suck, and I'll admit I made a big mistake buying them in large quantities. Thinking I knew better than the people who warned me... "buy something better... buy something better".... I laughed, telling them the same thing, that I shouldn't knock them...  what I didn't know is they were laughing, about me wasting my money, but I just didn't know it.

 

G.

 

I've been on a few hobby specific web sites. They all have their brand snobs. Whether it's firearms, outdoor power equipment, model railroad, and now radio... if it's not some preferred brand, it's garbage. I've learned to ignore it, but to many noobs this attitude is a turn off. They ask the question, 'on my $xx budget, what should I buy', then look at the products suggested by the brand snob, look at the price, then seek another hobby. I see threads and hear discussions about amateur radio (in all its forms) slowly becoming extinct because of expanding cell phone coverage. Making the newly interested feel that what they can afford is not welcome in the hobby does not make for 'good business'.

Ok, so the Chineese radios are not great, but don't knock them. They are the entry point for many, because for only slightly more than $100 you can have a radio and a GMRS license. If you don't like it, you're only out around $100. If you do enjoy the hobby, you can drop the coin and upgrade to a better radio. These "CCRs" are my entry point and I am enjoying this hobby. I expect that I will upgrade to better equipment at some point, but at the moment, I'm running what I can afford; what I can afford to lose if I don't like it.

[gman1971]

Well, what radios did you get, and which radios did these CCRs replace? What is your use case scenario?

 

Comparing CCRs to ham gear, based on factual ISOTEE measurements, isn't saying much. On average, the ham radio equipment I've measured is vastly inferior to their LMR commercial/military counterparts. The front end filtering in most ham gear is just lacking, or non existent (like in CCRs). Even radios considered good, like the TM-V71a mobile, or the TH-F6a portable (both of which I own, and multiple of, btw) those just don't hold a candle to even the old XPR4550 mobiles, or the XPR6550 portables... regardless of band. Sure the TH-F6a is a phenomenal radio b/c it does things nearly no other radio can... but when reliable reception inside Best Buy is needed, only quality LMR gear is up to the task of receiving due to the presence of a better front end.

 

And then, there are radios, like my XPR550e, which are so far ahead of those ham radios portables/mobiles that I don't own measuring equipment good enough to determine how good these XPR555e actually are. I can measure/align pretty much every other radio I own, ... not the latest XPR Gen2+ radios.

 

As for quality... what do you mean by quality? define quality... as in how is put together? Who cares how its put together if the radio can't hear its way out of a paper bag... the case for most CCR rubbish.

 

Which brings me to the question: if you were shown two radios and told you could only have one, which one will you choose, between a scratched up, dirty XPR7550e, which is producing intelligible audio, or a pristine Wouxun that is silent, both tuned to the same frequency.... which one would you chose? It is a no brainer for me... Quality of a radio should be measured in quality of the receiver, above all else, otherwise, just buy a phone. You can do more with a cheap phone than with a CCR...

 

 

There are many analogies to the CCRs, night vision scopes being another one...  but that is a topic for another forum... even though light amplification is a form of electromagnetic amplification, just not in the radio spectrum...

 

G.

 

 

I've never found better made radios close to the price of CCR's, usually double  or triple to move up, sometimes 4 or 5 times. 

 

My "junk CCR's" performance has been only marginally worse than the name brand Japanese radios I have replaced them with, maybe I have been lucky. 

 

CCR's are an entry point to the hobby.  

The firearms comparison isn't close, a High Point pistol often doesn't function at all, much less poorly. 

[AdmiralCochrane]

OK, I looked at the P1225s on eBay and did some other searching.  Where is the programming cable and software for these?  It appears to be a stumbling block to using them.  Also there seems to be a mystery to decoding which models are VHF, UHF or dual band; sellers rarely seem to know anything except that they are radios.  Can you point out where this info can be found.  I spent about a half hour searching and am coming up blank on these answers.

[Radioguy7268]

The model you want will start with P94ZRC90

 

The P1225 came as either a 2 channel or 16 channel model (plus a 16ch  keypad version with display).

 

Software can be a stumbling block if you're not friendly with someone who has a copy. It used to be available for anyone who had a MOL (Motorola Online) subscription. I've got a boatload of the P1225's. PM me and I'll hook you up.

[SteveC7010]

OK, I looked at the P1225s on eBay and did some other searching. Where is the programming cable and software for these? It appears to be a stumbling block to using them. Also there seems to be a mystery to decoding which models are VHF, UHF or dual band; sellers rarely seem to know anything except that they are radios. Can you point out where this info can be found. I spent about a half hour searching and am coming up blank on these answers.

If you didn’t find anything in the 1225 family of radios, you might not have been asking the right questions. Or searching too precisely.

 

Cables are readily available on Ebay. The software is long EOL and readily found on the net. You can buy the software on ebay, too, but Motorola hasn’t charged for in at least 10 years. I’ll send it to you if you can’t find it. It runs best on an XP or a Win95/98 machine. I have a Panasonic CF-29 with XP on it and a real DB-9 serial port. I use the ribless serial cables. Everything Waris, 1225, Commercial, most Radius, older Minitors, and a bunch of other manufacturer’s stuff programs flawlessly with this setup.

 

The mobile M1225’s use the same cable as Radius, CDM, and CM. Same 1225 CPS too.

 

batlabs.com is full of reference info on legacy Motorola gear. There should be a model number chart there.

 

repeaterbuilder.com is another great resource for legacy gear from a number of manufacturers.

 

radioreference.com has many archived threads on programming and use of all sorts of legacy radios. The 1225 family is well featured there in the Motorola section.

[gman1971]

As it has been stated, you can find a lot of the older Motorola CPS on the net if you look around hard enough, but If you have a MOL account (not to be confused with a paid CPS subscription) then you can find a lot of the old software, firmware, all for free (including getting a MOL account, free), on their site. That applies for all Vertex Standard EVX and older gear as well.

 

In the subject of getting a MOL account: Its not as bad as its been claimed to be, sure you can face a worst case SOL scenario, but chances are you won't. I went in scared shiatless... and I waited and waited, ... but after a couple of email exchanges, and a couple of weeks wait I got it.... and I am a just regular guy... The advise I was given, that I will share here is: don't BS on the forms. Don't use email names like "motorolahacking@somewhere.uncom" or "motorolasucks@hackers.org" etc. etc.  Be very professional and courteous with the reps who email asking for information, I'll reiterate always use abundant courtesy but be very precise when addressing their requests too. Don't need to write a save the kittens diatribe...  Also, don't think/assume they are there to get you, they are not. Always consider that the guy writing on the other side of the email probably (and likely) had the worst day of his life due to dealing with a dozen of other very angry customers... etc... so unloading on the guy is never a winning strategy, he just works there, and b/c of that he can also deny your MOL request.

 

And yes, it wasn't ideal for me to have wait for 2 weeks to get my new toy programmed, but the benefits of having access to MOL and their online store, among other things is great. I get accessories and antennas directly shipped from MOL to my house in ~48 (sorry, not days) hours. Free shipping, free access to all the software from the legal repository... etc. There are things I can't get that needs a Motorola dealer, but those are mostly specialty stuff. 

 

EDIT: Motorola counterfeit stuff is beyond rampant on eBay and 2nd market places like it, and especially so for quality portable antennas, so having the MOL account solves the problem altogether.

 

G.

[gman1971]

Thank you!

 

If you didn’t find anything in the 1225 family of radios, you might not have been asking the right questions. Or searching too precisely.

Cables are readily available on Ebay. The software is long EOL and readily found on the net. You can buy the software on ebay, too, but Motorola hasn’t charged for in at least 10 years. I’ll send it to you if you can’t find it. It runs best on an XP or a Win95/98 machine. I have a Panasonic CF-29 with XP on it and a real DB-9 serial port. I use the ribless serial cables. Everything Waris, 1215, Commercial, older Minitors, and a bunch of other manufacturer’s stuff programs flawlessly with this setup.

The mobile M1225’s use the same cable as Radius, CDM, and CM. Same CPS too.

batlabs.com is full of reference info on legacy Motorola gear. There should be a model number chart there.

repeaterbuilder.com is another great resource for legacy gear from a number of manufacturers.

radioreference.com has many archived threads on programming and use of all sorts of legacy radios. The 1225 family is well featured there in the Motorola section.