Impressed with CCR's

[berkinet]

...

The P1225 came as either a 2 channel or 16 channel model (plus a 16ch  keypad version with display).

 ....

And, the P1225-LS, which is to be avoided since it was designed for trunking systems. I will still work as a basic radio, ut with only 2 channels.

[berkinet]

OK, I looked at the P1225s on eBay and did some other searching. ...

The mention of the P1225 was really just to illustrate the point that there are good quality radios available for not much more than a basic CCR, and around the same price as a GMRS certified CCR.

 

Look through this forum and you will see lots of recommendations, and a few warnings as well. Both Vertex and Kenwood make excellent equipment and are readily found in the used market.

[SteveC7010]

One other Motorola oriented resource is batboard.batlabs.com which has been around for a long, long time. It’s chock full of discussions and problem solving on many of the popular Motorola legacy products including the 1225, Waris, Radius, Commercial, and more.

[jec6613]

And keep in mind, GMRS certification is not just snob appeal. It actually means something. Sure, in some cases it just means the radio has limited front panel programming capabilities. But, in other cases, it means the radio is not complete shit.

 

Like specifically that I can take it places that I can't take a part 90 programmed on the same frequencies.  And remember: the KG-805 series is a LMR part 90 circuit board, and I've never had it desense.  A bit of spurious emissions, but well within tolerances (and within Motorola's specs for their own products).

[jec6613]

This discussion has gotten me to wonder if there is an unbiased independent ‘Consumer Reports’ like group that performs high-quality objective measurements and practical A-B tests of radios.

 

If said group exists, I wonder if they would be able to shed light on the degree to which some radio brands and models objectively perform better than others. Such information could help folks make decisions based on more than price.

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

You do know that QST does this, right?  And while it may be for the amateur community, many of the CCR stuff uses the same design with different programming for multiple uses.

[Lscott]

sellers rarely seem to know anything except that they are radios.  Can you point out where this info can be found.  I spent about a half hour searching and am coming up blank on these answers.

As you pointed out many sellers have little to no clue, wrong description, wrong model, wrong band split etc. for the radio they are selling. As a buyer one should do the research and know something about the brand and model of radio before bidding or buying one used.FWIW sellers with little clue about what they are selling is where I have got the best deals verses sellers that are in the radio business who do know, and they typically charge too much in my opinion in many cases.

 

The two things I do is look for a photo showing the manufacture's model number on the ID tag, normally on the back of the radio someplace, and the FCC certification number. From that I can research that model for the brochures, user manuals and service manuals. The FCC certification number leads to the FCC grant info where i can see just what bandwidth, band split and power the radio was tested at and certified.

 

After that I'll also look to see if the programming software is "obtainable" and any required cables or interface box can be procured, same with battery packs for portable units and chargers.

 

For some portable units I have checked for availability of cheap aftermarket case rebuild kits. Some of the used radios the electronics are likely fine but the case is in very poor condition or simply broken. If I can get a radio that is fully functional cheap and a case rebuild kit for 10 to 15 bucks I end up with a very nice radio for an overall good deal.

[mbrun]

I am not fully familiar what QST has to offer. I have only recently received my first issue.

 

You do know that QST does this, right? And while it may be for the amateur community, many of the CCR stuff uses the same design with different programming for multiple uses.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jec6613]

I am not fully familiar what QST has to offer. I have only recently received my first issue.

You'll have access to the back catalog then. Every other issue or so there's an equipment review, and they're remarkable how comparable they are over 50+ years with consistent measurements.

[gman1971]

And how can you tell it hasn't desensed? All radios desense to some degree when hooked up to an antenna, and the CCRs just desense a lot more than the non CCR stuff I've tested. Again, using a repeater is not indicative of radio performance, its only indicative that the repeater works well. 

 

G.

 

 

Like specifically that I can take it places that I can't take a part 90 programmed on the same frequencies.  And remember: the KG-805 series is a LMR part 90 circuit board, and I've never had it desense.  A bit of spurious emissions, but well within tolerances (and within Motorola's specs for their own products).

[AdmiralCochrane]

Thanks for all the responses, you guys have been very helpful and I appreciate the guidence.

I found tons of info on the 1225's and tons of them on eBay for varying prices.  Am I correct that there was a UHF version, a VHF version and a dual band version?   I looked at 30 or 40 web search results other than eBay and could only be certain of identifying the single band units and the LS and another version that were obviously unsuitable. 

 

If I could figure out which model of the 1225s is dual band and can find a dual bander for less than $60 I'll get one to try. 

 

I don't know which radio or model it was, but in one of the things I found, there was mention that the programming software wasn't compatible with newer operating systems.  

 

This is my example of though there may be "better radios" out there at the same price point of CCR's,  availability of such is limited to those who have specific knowledge of specific radio models or an Elmer to guide them.  

[gman1971]

Well, was there any particular reason you want a 1225? Why not an HT1250?

 

or an XTS1500?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-XTS1500-UHF-Radio-Model-H66QDC9PW5AN-Flash-1000080004104-TESTED/254733189596?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818142525%26meid%3D7327a248e34d4632a6744c6447bdda37%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D113304010803%26itm%3D254733189596%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithDarwoV3BBEV2b%26brand%3DMotorola&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851

 

or an XTS 3000?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-ASTRO-XTS-3000-Two-Way-Radio-H09UCF9PW7BN-UHF-w-Battery-Antenna/113304010803?epid=1400257048&hash=item1a61720033:g:UF8AAOSwSWdezY3Y

 

Those radios are very good too... 

 

G.

 

Thanks for all the responses, you guys have been very helpful and I appreciate the guidence.

I found tons of info on the 1225's and tons of them on eBay for varying prices.  Am I correct that there was a UHF version, a VHF version and a dual band version?   I looked at 30 or 40 web search results other than eBay and could only be certain of identifying the single band units and the LS and another version that were obviously unsuitable. 

 

If I could figure out which model of the 1225s is dual band and can find a dual bander for less than $60 I'll get one to try. 

 

I don't know which radio or model it was, but in one of the things I found, there was mention that the programming software wasn't compatible with newer operating systems.  

 

This is my example of though there may be "better radios" out there at the same price point of CCR's,  availability of such is limited to those who have specific knowledge of specific radio models or an Elmer to guide them.  

 

[AdmiralCochrane]

Well, was there any particular reason you want a 1225? Why not an HT1250?

 

or an XTS1500?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-XTS1500-UHF-Radio-Model-H66QDC9PW5AN-Flash-1000080004104-TESTED/254733189596?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818142525%26meid%3D7327a248e34d4632a6744c6447bdda37%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D113304010803%26itm%3D254733189596%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithDarwoV3BBEV2b%26brand%3DMotorola&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851

 

or an XTS 3000?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-ASTRO-XTS-3000-Two-Way-Radio-H09UCF9PW7BN-UHF-w-Battery-Antenna/113304010803?epid=1400257048&hash=item1a61720033:g:UF8AAOSwSWdezY3Y

 

Those radios are very good too... 

 

G.

 

Only my ignorance.   I'm getting a lot of Elmering here.   I wish there was a thread specifically for this subject with the pros and cons of the various radios mentioned.  

[gman1971]

Oh, dang... I am very very sorry if I came out that way. Just trying to help, that's all, sometimes I get too passionate about it... 

 

So, there is a plethora of older Motorola (and other brands) radios to chose from, to my mind first comes the workhorse HT1000, the radio that public safety used to carry back when I was in college, or the HT1250s, both of those are good radios to own, but if you want to do the newer digital VHF/UHF ham radio stuff, the newer XPR series offers DMR and FM, although only single band. The APX radios (more $$$) will do more than one band, but in P25. The XTS will also do P25... which is not compatible with DMR (or MotoTRBO) unfortunately, although some people build MMDVMs that will link P25 repeaters to DMR, or D-Star, or Fusion... et. all. 

 

In my experience, once you get past the "single band" psicological barrier, b/c most of the LMR stuff is going to be single band, I think you won't ever look back.

 

I will say that, b/c for me at least it was a very hard pill to swallow at first. I've always carried dual band radios on me for more than a decade... But been carrying a single band radio for a year or so now and never looked back. Most of the time on my belt is a VHF XPR6550, but I have two mobiles, one VHF and one UHF in the car to reach the other band.

 

You might ask why VHF? well, I found it to be much further reaching than UHF, has HAM VHF repeaters, has MURS in case you need simplex, plus Marine VHF along with the NOAA weather channels to which I listen. Then there is a host of EMS/Public safety stuff on VHF too, like Dane County EMS, etc, which is all VHF FM still. All Police Depts around here went digital circa 2017 IIRC, most of them are P25 now.

 

I found the XPR6550 to be a really good radio for the cost. I have a few of those, in both flavors, U and V. You can find those for < 100 bucks on eBay from time to time, and the CPS can be purchased on eBay as well, along with the XPR programming cable. The APX/XTS/XTL radios I don't know much about, but I've spoken with people who swear by them, so I figured those are worth a look too.

 

There are a lot of <100 buck used radios that are way better than most CCRs. ICOM and Kenwood make a lot of decent stuff too, some of the newer Kenwood NX-series radios will do P25 and DMR on the same radio... and while Motorola won't, the audio overall sounds better, IMO, of course. The RX Audio Leveling function available on the XPR7000 series and  XPR5000 series is probably the best feature I've ever encountered in a radio... which basically makes every incoming transmission sound exactly the same volume, regardless of the other person having the gain on their mic set to +30 dB... So you never have to reach for the volume level ever again...  

 

Feel free to PM me.

 

G.

[AdmiralCochrane]

Didn't appear rude or condesending to me, you simply asked a valid question and I honestly answered.  I agree about VHF but drawback on this forum is inablity to monitor GMRS channels that would be possible on many UHF and dual band radios. 

 

 

Even if there are 200 possible used radios, I still wish there was a pro/con comparison thread. 

[gman1971]

Yes, that is why I carry the mobile UHF in the car. Sometimes I'll carry the 7550e UHF if I am going out and about with the family, so we can talk via GMRS... but... 

 

We should probably start a new thread, hijacking a CCR thread to post about pros/cons of Motorola/Kenwood/ICOM et. all radios is probably not going to fly well with the moderators.

 

DONE: https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2183-brand-name-radios-proscons-thread-usednew/

 

G.

[jec6613]

And how can you tell it hasn't desensed? All radios desense to some degree when hooked up to an antenna, and the CCRs just desense a lot more than the non CCR stuff I've tested. Again, using a repeater is not indicative of radio performance, its only indicative that the repeater works well. 

 

G.

 

Usually my bar is to transmit next to it while it's listening to a very weak signal and watch what happens.  Trying a few different bands, as well.

[AdmiralCochrane]

That doesn't mean the selectivity is sufficient enough to reject closer noise that makes weak on-frequency transmissions readable.

[gman1971]

Well, the problem is rarely, if ever, a  5W portable TXing nearby, although it can be for a lot of CCR radios... The real problem are the giant 1000 feet antenna towers within 10 miles from you house that you don't know about. You are probably wondering why do you care? well, you really do b/c those towers usually pack a dozen of 250 kiloWatt transmitters pumping RF all over the spectrum creating intermod heaven for these POS CCRs, yes you read that right 250,000 watts... (or 84 dBm) A 84 dBm signal, at 15 miles goes through the missing, or vastly insufficient front end of these pieces of crap... so when the mixer puts signals together, all those get mixed up too... so you end up with nothing but a noisy mess in the IF stage, or in layman terms, radio range measured in tenths of a mile.

 

An 84 dBm signal at 15 miles gets attenuated in free space -113dBm, so the CCR receiver sees a -29 dBm signal... that is a stronger signal than a 50 Watt GMRS mobile under <1 mile from the same radio. B/c there is no filtering, or not enough filtering, these direct conversion basically "check out"... they will be unable to separate the valid signal from these strong off band/off frequency signals.

 

Again, those radios ARE GARBAGE. Even the 878/578/MD5 are, those desense and have intermod problems with a 100 watt transmistter VHF NOAA weather station placed 1 mile from my house... even when on UHF... In contrast, none one of my Vertex Standard or Motorola radios have issues with intermod, not even my 2nd hand $49 dollar EVX-531 with no display...

 

Waste your money at your own peril.

 

G.

[dwmitchell61]

Why are we recommending a Motorola XPR7550e for GMRS? Are we advocating bootlegging and risking a $10k fine using a radio not approved for a service by the FCC?

 

I am not interested in becoming a pirate station. Thanks anyway.

[Radioguy7268]

Can you cite any instance where the FCC has actually fined anyone ANY dollar amount for using a Part 90 radio for GMRS?  In fact, can you even locate an enforcement action where the FCC has admonished a user for using a Part 90 radio in GMRS?

 

Just saying, because if you're going to wave around a $10,000 fine  - you actually should show that the weapon has been used. At least once.

[gman1971]

Why? B/c those radios don't suck. If you are looking for excuses to keep buying garbage then you are doing a great job, keep it up. Hearing you is just like hearing myself 6 years ago... wasting my money away... 

 

Radios Part 90 certified have tighter and stricter requirements than Part 95 toys. Yes, part 95 radios are usually overpriced toys.. its like buying an Airsoft replica vs buying the real gun...  which one would you rather have if things go south? Pretty clear answer to me. Using the dubious legal argument to sell P.O.S. radios is just blatantly misleading customers into buying inferior products that won't perform as advertised when you might need them the most.

 

I am using the XPR7550e as an example here, but there are other quality brand LMR radios made by Motorola/Kenwood/ICOM that are also part 95 approved... you just have to look around. I chose the XPR7550e b/c I love how it looks, it has the best audio I've ever heard on any radio and the best range I've ever tested on a portable simplex.

 

To conclude: other people here aren't just exclusively licensed on GMRS, other people here are also hams, or even LMR operators who might hold an Itinerant Business Radio license... where encryption is legal too... 

 

G.

 

Why are we recommending a Motorola XPR7550e for GMRS? Are we advocating bootlegging and risking a $10k fine using a radio not approved for a service by the FCC?

I am not interested in becoming a pirate station. Thanks anyway.

[berkinet]

... In fact, can you even locate an enforcement action where the FCC has admonished a user for using a Part 90 radio in GMRS?...

 

... or ANY non-GMRS certified radio for that matter. None, zero, zilch, zip, nada, rien, никто.

 

...I am not interested in becoming a pirate station. Thanks anyway. ...

Nobody should buy or operate any radio they are not comfortable with. Whether it is for technical or regulatory reasons. But, this board is made up of adults who, like you, are, presumably, capable of deciding for themselves what equipment they wish to own, operate, and discuss.

[dwmitchell61]

Why are we recommending a Motorola XPR7550e for GMRS? Are we advocating bootlegging and risking a $10k fine using a radio not approved for a service by the FCC?

 

I am not interested in becoming a pirate station. Thanks anyway.

[dwmitchell61]

Ok... I'm going to off these two radios that suck and start using my 2m Icon handy talkie, since the FCC doesn't enforce anything anyways... Sounds good. I won't need that Tevhnician license. LMAO... I just didn't realize it was such a joke and everything has become CB now...

[gman1971]

What are you even talking about, CB? a Ham tech license? a 2m ICON?? With N? I guess you're going all in on CCRs now...So, what is that? a knockoff of the Japanese ICOM brand? Also, this is GMRS, UHF, 462/467 Mhz, pal, you don't need a ham license to operate on GMRS, maybe the IcoN CCR puts out so much dirty RF that you can hear it even on GMRS while rocking the 15w spurious emission Santa on 2m??

 

Whether you want to believe these radios suck, or not, it doesn't change the fact they are indeed, pieces of crap. I own more than 50 of those CCRs, from all sizes and shapes, from the $8 dollar BF-888S to the $400 dollar Anytone AT-578UV mobile... and almost everything in between. After measuring with a service monitor, I can state, unequivocally, that the majority of those CCR radios suck, and some suck so bad that even two cans and a string would yield better range...

 

If you think you know better, by all means, waste your own money at your own peril.

 

G.