Updated FCC Rules (2021) Pending - GMRS Location Data and FM on CB

[SteveShannon]

Garmin also has a monochrome model without the touch screen. It displays a map, but doesn’t have the full top mapping of their top end.  The Rino 700 is only $349 MSRP and can sometimes be found for less at Cabelas or places like it.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/576031

[PACNWComms]

Very nice. It looks like the logical replacement for the Rino 120 is the Rino 700, and with that monochrome display, should still work with image intensification night vision, while still having the location sending option, adding in text messaging. I for one am glad that Garmin pushed for this back in 2003, that was very helpful in the past, and some of us still use this when out and about in the wilderness. 

Thank you for sharing the info. Expanding capabilities through the FCC would be a good thing for those that understand the limitations and capabilities. I may keep my eyes out for some being sold cheaper, by those that get frustrated when they only get a few miles range, expecting to get 14-22 miles on a 5 watt radio/GPS. 

[Ian]

On 7/27/2021 at 8:42 AM, tweiss3 said:

Garmin already has something like this, its Tread ($800) plus Group Ride Radio ($350)

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/702373#specs

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/705043

It's based on MURS, where this is already allowed. You wouldn't be able to get the antenna to work in its current location with UHF and additional power if without exceeding RF exposure limits or making problems with the electronics.

This … this is the grail radio that I would have loved like five years ago.  Never gonna be able to splash out for one at this rate, but… 

 

Why did it have to be MURS?  Why not make it work with the Rino series?  Why not offer Rino radios in MURS, at the very least?

 

It's got five data pins on the back of the 5" model, which is good enough to attach the Group Ride Radio; the 8" unit has nineteen data pins -- can we get a Rino compatible GMRS we can connect via those pins?  It would fulfill the FCC's requirements, and Mic-E would be perfectly adequate for communicating data bursts over GMRS.  (I imagine encoding callsign into the opening chirp, and location data into the closing chirp…)

 

Bloody brilliant, and yet they're still trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory…

[gman1971]

GoTenna seems to be a similar type of thing.

G.

[blastco2]

I'm not much interested in aprs on gmrs as a replacement for aprs/ham.  Aprs/gmrs would be handy for my off-road non ham friends to use in the Backcountry.

Aprsdroid and Backcountry Navigator work together to display an object's location directly on to a topo map that lives on your android device, eliminating the need for data service to keep the map in aprsdroid updated.    Myself and a few others poked at Crittermap software to include that feature in BCN.  Works very well on the ham side.  Have yet to try it on gmrs.

For snowmobiles, hunters, ATV, hikers, mountain bikes,  I think that a gmrs radio with a GPS function that will give the direction and distance to other individuals in your group would be amazingly helpful.  I found such radios about 4 years ago.  Zastone 889g.  Could not get the location transfer function to work.  Was supposed to answer automatically when polled and also send send manually.  Never could get them to work.   The voice side of the radios worked very well and 10 watts.  

[SteveShannon]

13 hours ago, blastco2 said:

I'm not much interested in aprs on gmrs as a replacement for aprs/ham.  Aprs/gmrs would be handy for my off-road non ham friends to use in the Backcountry.

Aprsdroid and Backcountry Navigator work together to display an object's location directly on to a topo map that lives on your android device, eliminating the need for data service to keep the map in aprsdroid updated.    Myself and a few others poked at Crittermap software to include that feature in BCN.  Works very well on the ham side.  Have yet to try it on gmrs.

For snowmobiles, hunters, ATV, hikers, mountain bikes,  I think that a gmrs radio with a GPS function that will give the direction and distance to other individuals in your group would be amazingly helpful.  I found such radios about 4 years ago.  Zastone 889g.  Could not get the location transfer function to work.  Was supposed to answer automatically when polled and also send send manually.  Never could get them to work.   The voice side of the radios worked very well and 10 watts.  

The Garmin GMRS radios work very well at transmitting their gps location to another Garmin GMRS radio.  The top end radios have topo maps built in or more detailed maps can be added.  They are prohibited by FCC regulations from passing their gps locations through a repeater though.

[MacJack]

On 3/15/2022 at 10:48 AM, Sshannon said:

The Garmin GMRS radios work very well at transmitting their gps location to another Garmin GMRS radio.  The top end radios have topo maps built in or more detailed maps can be added.  They are prohibited by FCC regulations from passing their gps locations through a repeater though.

Are you a Ham?  I'm using a RFinder B1 which covers GMRS, VHF/UHF Repeaters and DMRoIP for Ham, etc...  And it has mapping with off of cellular. https://store10195853.ecwid.com/RFinder-B1-p153523799  Check it out.. 

[SteveShannon]

13 hours ago, MacJack said:

Are you a Ham?  I'm using a RFinder B1 which covers GMRS, VHF/UHF Repeaters and DMRoIP for Ham, etc...  And it has mapping with off of cellular. https://store10195853.ecwid.com/RFinder-B1-p153523799  Check it out.. 

I am. I know of the RFinder. Not really interested in the price, sorry.

[PACNWComms]

On 2/9/2022 at 11:56 PM, Ian said:

Why did it have to be MURS?  Why not make it work with the Rino series?  Why not offer Rino radios in MURS, at the very least?

I totally agree. The first step should have been a Rino compatible device, then branch out if it proves popular. MURS was probably offered for long range and no license required, and that was the end of discussion in some corporate meeting. I would buy one in UHF band for sure. I need that for my part of the country.

In hind sight, I should have bought stock in Garmin, with all the money I have spent on their products over the years. 

[Lscott]

There are some Kenwood radios with built in GPS.

https://comms.kenwood.com/common/pdf/download/02_NX-200G&300GBrochure.pdf

For the radios that don't they have speaker microphones with the GPS receiver in it which will transmit the location over the radio.

https://www.ameradio.com/product/101091/description.html

https://www.kenwoodradiodealer.com/product/107/kenwood-gps-speaker-microphone-kenwood-kmc-48gps

[MacJack]

5 hours ago, Sshannon said:

I am. I know of the RFinder. Not really interested in the price, sorry.

I agree on price... I have used ones from old owners who could not figure it our and make it work.

 

[blastco2]

On 3/17/2022 at 10:09 AM, MacJack said:

I agree on price... I have used ones from old owners who could not figure it our and make it work.

 

That would be the only way that I could afford an rf finder.  Sheesh, $1k each, that's crazy expensive.   

[MacJack]

3 hours ago, blastco2 said:

That would be the only way that I could afford an rf finder.  Sheesh, $1k each, that's crazy expensive.   

But it is a cell phone, radio UHF, VHF, GMRS, FRS, MURS, DMR and more plus I do DMRoIP as it is it's own hotspot.  Sweet.

[SteveShannon]

34 minutes ago, MacJack said:

But it is a cell phone, radio UHF, VHF, GMRS, FRS, MURS, DMR and more plus I do DMRoIP as it is it's own hotspot.  Sweet.

One problem with things that do everything is that they soak up the entire budget with no redundancy. What’s your backup to it?

[MichaelLAX]

22 hours ago, MacJack said:

But it is a cell phone, radio UHF, VHF, GMRS, FRS, MURS, DMR and more plus I do DMRoIP as it is it's own hotspot.  Sweet.

For $69, I purchased the Radioddity RD-5R, which is radio UHF, VHF, GMRS, FRS, MURS, DMR and more.

I already have an iPhone, (which yours is not iOS compatible; only Android) and I do not need a hotspot, as I hit 3 DMR repeaters from my easy chair (admittedly connected to my rooftop Comet tribander)!

That leaves much savings to buy another cellphone that is Android (when I figure out a need for it) and a hotspot (when I figure out a need for it)! 

[wayoverthere]

21 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:

and a hotspot (when I figure out a need for it)! 

That's one cool aspect of the RFinder, though, it isn't using a hotspot, it's the hotspot itself via it's data connections. Expensive piece of kit, no doubt, but a lot of functionality crammed into it (dmr radio+hotspot+analog radio+cellphone+repeater directory), and being combined let's them integrate better than separate pieces often do.

That said, I'm sticking with my redundancy of multiple devices for now too.

[MichaelLAX]

8 minutes ago, wayoverthere said:

That's one cool aspect of the RFinder, though, it isn't using a hotspot, it's the hotspot itself via it's data connections.

So then, if it is not transmitting on UHF/VHF, one does not need a Ham license to comply with FCC Rules?

Reminds me of way back when Skype was first released for those of us using computers to have video calls with friends, family and business contacts.

Fry's sold a one-piece "Skype Phone" that worked with WiFi, so that at least audio calls could be made without a computer, back when long distance calling (especially outside of the USA) was still very expensive!

[wayoverthere]

21 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:

So then, if it is not transmitting on UHF/VHF, one does not need a Ham license to comply with FCC Rules?

Reminds me of way back when Skype was first released for those of us using computers to have video calls with friends, family and business contacts.

Fry's sold a one-piece "Skype Phone" that worked with WiFi, so that at least audio calls could be made without a computer, back when long distance calling (especially outside of the USA) was still very expensive!

about the same as the 'Skype Phone', yeah.

On the license issue, I think the catch would be whats on the other end; if you're talking to another RFinder you'd probably be fine, legally. If the talkgroup has a repeater involved, though (the PAPA Bridge, for example), that could be a problem.  The other catch is that you need a license to get a DMR Id to begin with.

[PACNWComms]

22 hours ago, Sshannon said:

One problem with things that do everything is that they soak up the entire budget with no redundancy

I see this often, and the backup is usually something very low tech, such as a map, compass and protractor for location, and a cheap analog radio for RF comms. 

At work, I am going through this with some sites that think they need multi-band Motorola radios (APX8000) handhelds, which is hard to "sell" to those controlling the money when only a few people really need that capability, and get along with an 800 MHz radio on their hip and the other band in mobile radios in vehicles/office areas. The only "do everything" type of radios I have used were Harris AN/PRC-152/117 mobile/backpack series radios, and the backup to them was another of the same radio. 

Luckily, GMRS is a lot cheaper with many more options. 

[MacJack]

19 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:

For $69, I purchased the Radioddity RD-5R, which is radio UHF, VHF, GMRS, FRS, MURS, DMR and more.

I already have an iPhone, (which yours is not iOS compatible; only Android) and I do not need a hotspot, as I hit 3 DMR repeaters from my easy chair (admittedly connected to my rooftop Comet tribander)!

That leaves much savings to buy another cellphone that is Android (when I figure out a need for it) and a hotspot (when I figure out a need for it)! 

Thanks good to know...