Reprogramming Part 90 radio for GMRS

[Guest Bobbert]

I'm looking at getting set up to run GMRS, but I am not impressed by any of the dedicated GMRS radios I see. If I am reading §95.1761(c) correctly, a radio certified in Part 90 can be programmed to operate in GMRS so it appears an answer is at hand. What would be the easiest radio to program for GMRS?

[MichaelLAX]

Where do you see reprogramming a Part 90 radio in Part 95.1761(c)?

Here? 

“unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required.”

I dont think any Part 90 radios are authorized on GMRS frequencies. 

[wayoverthere]

3 hours ago, Guest Bobbert said:

I'm looking at getting set up to run GMRS, but I am not impressed by any of the dedicated GMRS radios I see. If I am reading §95.1761(c) correctly, a radio certified in Part 90 can be programmed to operate in GMRS so it appears an answer is at hand. What would be the easiest radio to program for GMRS?

What that is saying is the manufacturer COULD get a radio certified in another service requiring certification and in gmrs (95e). It's not an automatic thing.

That said, there are a few models out there, mostly Kenwood and Motorola, that are certified for 90 and 95a (where gmrs was previously listed).

Edited November 30, 2021 by wayoverthere
fix typos

[Guest Bobbert]

17 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:

Where do you see reprogramming a Part 90 radio in Part 95.1761(c)?

Here? 

“unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required.”

I dont think any Part 90 radios are authorized on GMRS frequencies. 

The one thing certain about opening a can of worms is you will need a bigger can to put them in. And I don't have a can big enough to put that can of worms into once it's open. If you can stay on-topic I'd appreciate it.

 

12 minutes ago, wayoverthere said:

What that is saying is the manufacturer COULD get a radio certified in another device requiring certification and in gmrs (95e). It's not an automatic thing.

That said, there are a few models out there, mostly Kenwood and Motorola, that are certified for 90 and 95a (where is was previously listed).

Thanks.

[axorlov]

Part 90 are not legal for GMRS. However, as pointed out by wayoverthere, there are radios certified for both Part 90 and Part 95. Several Kenwoods came to mind: TK-860G, TK-880, TK-8180 for mobile, and number of handhelds too: TK-360G, TK-370G, TK-3140, TK-3170, TK-3173, TK-3180.

[axorlov]

Specs for stability and spectral purity are the same between Part 90 and 95(e), so quite a lot of people are using Part 90 equipment. However, from a legal standpoint, they are not legit for GMRS. You would be a better neighbor with good Part 90 radios vs some crappy CCR certified for 95(e).

[MichaelLAX]

1 hour ago, Guest Bobbert said:

The one thing certain about opening a can of worms is you will need a bigger can to put them in. And I don't have a can big enough to put that can of worms into once it's open. If you can stay on-topic I'd appreciate it.

 

Thanks.

OK!?!

You OP said:

2 hours ago, Guest Bobbert said:

I'm looking at getting set up to run GMRS, but I am not impressed by any of the dedicated GMRS radios I see. If I am reading §95.1761(c) correctly, a radio certified in Part 90 can be programmed to operate in GMRS so it appears an answer is at hand. What would be the easiest radio to program for GMRS?

And I replied:

Quote

Where do you see reprogramming a Part 90 radio in Part 95.1761(c)?

Here? 

“unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required.”

I dont think any Part 90 radios are authorized on GMRS frequencies. 

So I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say I'm sorry that I got confused and missed the point of your OP, and I will move along!

Good luck in your future with GMRS! 

[MichaelLAX]

1 hour ago, axorlov said:

You would be a better neighbor with good Part 90 radios vs some crappy CCR certified for 95(e).

Depends upon who your neighbor is... 

[axorlov]

Says someone with 20W MURS radio. :rolleyes (x33)

[wayoverthere]

6 hours ago, axorlov said:

Part 90 are not legal for GMRS. However, as pointed out by wayoverthere, there are radios certified for both Part 90 and Part 95. Several Kenwoods came to mind: TK-860G, TK-880, TK-8180 for mobile, and number of handhelds too: TK-360G, TK-370G, TK-3140, TK-3170, TK-3173, TK-3180.

In addition to those, the vertex standard vx4207 is 90/95a certified, and I picked one up off of that auction site for $135 from usedradios.com. antenna farm has the software and cable for $45 or so.

[MichaelLAX]

1 hour ago, axorlov said:

Says someone with 20W MURS radio. :rolleyes (x33)

But proper operational etiquette demands Low Power for MURS: 

[axorlov]

Yeah right. Like your Anytone is even capable of going down to 2W. Lol. Proper etiquette demands use of a good approved and certified flamethrower on such things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPO-A_Shmel

[MichaelLAX]

15 hours ago, axorlov said:

Yeah right. Like your Anytone is even capable of going down to 2W. Lol. Proper etiquette demands use of a good approved and certified flamethrower on such things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPO-A_Shmel

 

Your reply link is a bit bizarre, to say the least! 

These mobiles have three power settings: Low (L), Medium (M) and High (H).

My L setting is probably less watts than someone using a UV-5R on MURS.

But, as long as you brought it up, MURS has very little usefulness for me in a mobile radio, whether the one in my car or the one in my shack.

Most of my MURS use mobile is to listen to Walmart employees on MURS 5 (Green Dot) when I am in one of their parking lots.

And after all, there are no MURS repeaters.

When I need the additional range of VHF propogation, I flip over to 2 meters and use my 20 watts there, whether simplex or on one of the many repeaters available to me!

Most importantly, in an emergency, it is reassuring to know I have the capability to use MURS (or GMRS Channels 8-14 for that matter) on H, if I need to reach someone who is desperately calling for help as I scan throughout my channels!

But thanks for bringing it up, so that I could clear up your misconceptions about it.

 

[AdmiralCochrane]

Waiting for the uneducated replies 

[Guest Bobbert]

I have two MTX-275 radios in-bound at the moment. There will be time to locate radios with Part 90/95A/95E certifications later, and I will have a better idea of what features I'd be looking for. :shrugs: It may be that the '275 will do what I need a radio to do. We Shall See.

[PACNWComms]

Kenwood ProTalk TK-3230 and TK-3302 models can be added to the list for Part 90 and 95. Dealt with some of those while working for the JVC/Kenwood Group (Zetron) as well. This topic seems to come up in every radio related forum and website eventually. Every few months on another forum as a matter of fact.

[Radioguy7268]

Add in the Motorola M1225 and P1225 radios for dual Part 95/Part 90 certification. They're out of production for almost 20 years now, but I've still got a few hundred M1225's running in daily commercial service. I wouldn't call them rugged, but they've certainly been reliable.

 

[WRFP399]

I am using Part 90 radios for nearly all my GMRS needs. Vertex and Motorola. It seems ALOT of people on the myGMRS net do the same thing based on comments I hear during the nets.

 

I thought someone posted comments from the FCC saying that while part 90 gear is technically not approved for part 95 service if your run your part 90 gear in accordance with the part 95 specifications they are going to leave you alone?

 

I am not going to dump 150 bucks for a GMRS handheld when I can pick up a more capable used part 90 radio. Yeah I loose some of the ability to program in the field on some of them but in certain situations simpler is better.

 

 

[wayoverthere]

46 minutes ago, WRFP399 said:

I am using Part 90 radios for nearly all my GMRS needs. Vertex and Motorola. It seems ALOT of people on the myGMRS net do the same thing based on comments I hear during the nets.

 

I thought someone posted comments from the FCC saying that while part 90 gear is technically not approved for part 95 service if your run your part 90 gear in accordance with the part 95 specifications they are going to leave you alone?

 

I am not going to dump 150 bucks for a GMRS handheld when I can pick up a more capable used part 90 radio. Yeah I loose some of the ability to program in the field on some of them but in certain situations simpler is better.

 

 

I think the statement boiled down to it wasn't their intent to prohibit Part 90 equipment; this falls in line with the current wording in the code related to dual-certified equipment, in that it allows for dual certification (95 & XX) where the other service requires certification.  So 95e & 90 dual certification is still possible, though it doesn't seem manufacturers are bothering.

Along with Moto & Kenwood, I know the Vertex VX4207 (mobile) carried 95A as well; I have one that was doing dual duty in the truck, though it's since moved back to my desk, and the can be found on the auction site for less than some of the current crop of high power gmrs radios.

[PACNWComms]

I use both Part 90 and Part 95 hardware for GMRS.....and while this subject comes up often, I know many people, myself included that will only take calculated risks when violating FCC regulation which could also take away our means of earning a living. This is due to also having commercial FCC licenses, that could be impacted by blatantly doing something that could create an FCC investigation. That being said, I agree with the above poster, there are many Part 90 radios available that will last for years, but do require software to program, knowledge of the particular radio, and may not be as easy to use as a cheaper dedicated GMRS radio. Type certification costs money, and some manufacturers do not see the benefit for some type certification, and for some models of hardware. I also use a Harris XG-100P handheld radio that has "mission plans" that include GMRS and Marine VHF for example, as Harris type accepted this radio, knowing that it might be used for many different use cases. Do not expect every manufacturer to do this, even if the radio is capable. Then there is the fact that FRS and GMRS are so ubiquitous that you have to do something very intentional to be investigated, and fined, after being warned. I myself will continue to use both Part 90 and 95 radios for GMRS. 

[Lscott]

12 hours ago, PACNWComms said:

I use both Part 90 and Part 95 hardware for GMRS.....and while this subject comes up often, I know many people, myself included that will only take calculated risks when violating FCC regulation which could also take away our means of earning a living. This is due to also having commercial FCC licenses, that could be impacted by blatantly doing something that could create an FCC investigation. That being said, I agree with the above poster, there are many Part 90 radios available that will last for years, but do require software to program, knowledge of the particular radio, and may not be as easy to use as a cheaper dedicated GMRS radio. Type certification costs money, and some manufacturers do not see the benefit for some type certification, and for some models of hardware. I also use a Harris XG-100P handheld radio that has "mission plans" that include GMRS and Marine VHF for example, as Harris type accepted this radio, knowing that it might be used for many different use cases. Do not expect every manufacturer to do this, even if the radio is capable. Then there is the fact that FRS and GMRS are so ubiquitous that you have to do something very intentional to be investigated, and fined, after being warned. I myself will continue to use both Part 90 and 95 radios for GMRS. 

I typically carry around a Kenwood TK-3170. It’s certified for Part 90 and 95A. It’s convenient because it’s possible to use the radio down to 440MHz or lower for Ham and GMRS. Between 440MHz and 450MHz covers the repeater section of the Ham 70cm band, only need one radio for both services.

For every two way radio I own, used or new, I keep a computer folder of PDF documents for user guides, service manuals, manufacturers brochures and FCC grant (certification) letters that I can find. I also keep the same on my smart phone too. Many of the older Kenwood commercial radios have Part 95 certification. 
 

I’ve also have a folder with brochures of various radios that I see mentioned just for reference. When a poster mentions they use a particular make and model radio it’s far easier to just look at the brochure to see what features it has instead of asking a bunch of questions. Most of the commercial radios you can find the brochures without much effort, might have to dig around a bit to find some of them. The brochures many times have the FCC ID for the radio so you can look up the certification info.