Recommended Contact Procedure

[taco6513]

This is not a GMRS question.

I have just programmed all the State Emergency Management Interoperability channels into my D578. There are 3 channels that are common interoperability channels.

They are listed as: OK Law 1, OK LGMA 1, and OK Net 1. 

The question: If it became necessary to contact the local law enforcement agency for an emergency purpose. (of course). What would be the contact protocol?

Would one use your Armature  call sign or GMRS call sign? Or just use name, rank, and serial number?

Thanks for the feed back. 

I like the new web site and network map.

WRCW870

KI5GXD

REACT 6259

[PACNWComms]

Plain simple English. This is "name" at "location" and I have an emergency. The person on the distant end of that radio should know how to handle this type of situation. Unfortunately, between the military, public safety, and emergency response.....I have been the person making these types of radio "calls" as well as taking a few. Often they involved a maritime environment where the US Coast Guard was needed as well. Plain and simple English works the best. Do not use jargon, 10 codes, or military style radio procedures, it only confuses dispatchers. Of course, if there are specific procedures in place, being a pre-arranged interoperability channel, use those procedures if they are known.

[gortex2]

Hold on ! Are you authorized for these interop channels ? And if so the D578 is not certified for public safety use. 

You can't just program up public safety channels to use if you feel there is an emergency.

In the OK FOG there clearly state - Note: The OKFOG does not grant authority to operate on radio frequencies. The use of these frequencies requires an FCC license.

Having a Ham Radio License or GMRS License does not authorize you to use Public Safety Frequencies. Pick up a cell phone or go to a ham channel.

 

 

[BoxCar]

The Commission has stated if Life, Health or property is in immediate danger one may use any frequency to summon aid. They have also ruled in the past that once the aid is summoned the emergency use exemption has been met and further transmissions are not allowed unless authorization is specifically granted by the responding agency. Once you contact an agency and relay the situation, the emergency is over as far as you are concerned and further transmissions are in violation of Commission rules.

[PACNWComms]

The first section of the NIFOG (National Interoperability Field Operations Guide) Version 1.6.1A describes a lot of the legal aspects, as BoxCar above mentioned, in detail in section 1 (up to page 23). Many state level FOG's re-iterate this. However, many will tell you to never ever do this. If your life or that of someone else is on the line, make that radio call, it may be the only thing that gets through. And yes, some of my personal incidents involved lost hikers in the Olympic National Forest, and all they had was a Baofeng with "prepper" frequencies loaded into it.....it still worked as it was being monitored by the closest Coast guard station's listening station. Raytheon ACU-1000 and some other gear that "listens" for exactly this type of thing in remote areas.

705610239_NIFOGVer1.6.1A.pdf

[gortex2]

Part 97 grants no authority to use Part 90 Licensed frequencies. Part 97 allows the use of amateur frequencies and zero outside of it. This comes up on many forums all the time and the end result is you can't do it. 

If your truly worried about calling on a public safety channel I'd pick up the phone and call said agency and ask them what their response would be if a citizen called on their channel. I can say for sure many counties would not be so open regardless of the emergency. 

[BoxCar]

24 minutes ago, gortex2 said:

Part 97 grants no authority to use Part 90 Licensed frequencies. Part 97 allows the use of amateur frequencies and zero outside of it. This comes up on many forums all the time and the end result is you can't do it. 

Buried within CFR 47 are several statements stating it is permissible to use any frequency when there is an immediate danger that would or could result in the loss of life. I don't recall the exact section but I know the exemption is in part 90 and other parts. A few years ago (more like 10) an amateur operator was fined for contacting a public safety agency and reporting an emergency. That was acceptable but, what was not was he stayed on the frequency and continued to transmit after being told to leave.

[Lscott]

2 hours ago, BoxCar said:

Buried within CFR 47 are several statements stating it is permissible to use any frequency when there is an immediate danger that would or could result in the loss of life. I don't recall the exact section but I know the exemption is in part 90 and other parts. A few years ago (more like 10) an amateur operator was fined for contacting a public safety agency and reporting an emergency. That was acceptable but, what was not was he stayed on the frequency and continued to transmit after being told to leave.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/90.407

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.403

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.405

[gortex2]

Those rules are for Part 97. That means if your a tech and have HF you can use it in an emergency. I continue to be baffled at the ham community who think they can use any frequency they want in an "emergency". 

This is the reason hams are getting less and less involved in public safety. There is a reason agencies have MOU's for inter agency stuff. 

[taco6513]

15 hours ago, Lscott said:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/90.407

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.403

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.405

Thank everyone for there feed back. 

No cell service.

Try to contact emergency service through Amateur or GRMS by Relay.

The last resort. Contact Emergency services on public service channels. 

At this time I could not foresee a time I would need to do this. Just asking the question.

Thanks

WRCW870

KI5GXD  

[MichaelLAX]

1 hour ago, gortex2 said:

Those rules are for Part 97. That means if your a tech and have HF you can use it in an emergency. I continue to be baffled at the ham community who think they can use any frequency they want in an "emergency". 

This is the reason hams are getting less and less involved in public safety. There is a reason agencies have MOU's for inter agency stuff. 

Memorandum of Understanding?!?

So you are suggesting that in an emergency and you are not a "tech" (whatever that means) and do not have access to HF, you cannot transmit your emergency communication?

Rather than take a shot at Hams and public safety, please tell us what are you suggesting the OP do? (and not just pick up a phone during an emergency!)

[SteveShannon]

Section 90.427(b) specifically prohibits programming unauthorized frequencies into a transmitter:

(b) Except for frequencies used in accordance with § 90.417, no person shall program into a transmitter frequencies for which the licensee using the transmitter is not authorized.

So, how does that fit into this conversation?  I’ll try to answer with some scenarios that I hope will explain my understanding.

1. Ms. Sierra Citizen, while out for a walk, finds a sheriff’s deputy slumped over in the front seat of his cruiser.  She has no cellphone service or any other communication device with her.  She picks up the microphone in the cruiser and asks for help. I believe the various exceptions which allow emergency communications would protect her from prosecution. 

2. Mr. Joe Prepper has every frequency programmed into his portable radio.  He finds a person slumped over in the front seat of their car.  He picks up his portable radio and calls on an EMS dispatch frequency for which he is not authorized.  I believe that even though he potentially saves the life of the person, he has clearly violated 90.427(b) by having his transmitter preprogrammed with unauthorized frequencies.  I’d be surprised if he wasn’t prosecuted.

The bottom line is this, the emergency provisions allow great latitude in radio usage in true emergencies, but they don’t serve to waive the rules that establish and protect communications systems simply to be prepared.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Sshannon
Added missing word.

[PACNWComms]

Updating, as I noticed I attached NIFOG version 1.6.1A in my previous post. Attaching NIFOG (National Interoperability Field Operations Guide) version 2.0 from August 2021. The first portion still describes when interop frequencies can be used by different types of users. Page 5 shows that Title 47 applies to Part: 80,87,90,95, and 97.

1937188711_NIFOGVer2.0_508version_FINAL_9_23_2021_(signed).pdf

[tweiss3]

I would suggest you contact Oklahoma State Department of Homeland Security, which is who those interop frequencies are licensed to. It should also be noted, you likely won't get anyone on those frequencies. Looking at the license, the emissions designator is for P25, and considering the state has gone to P25 for OMACS there is likely not a single soul that will be listening to analog NFM to even pick up your call for help.

[gortex2]

Quote

Rather than take a shot at Hams and public safety, please tell us what are you suggesting the OP do? 

As a public safety user and administrator I never took any shots at Public safety. My comment was and still stand that Hams nor GMRS users have any authority to program public safety channels in their radios for transmit. I feel the user has enough info from this post. I don't endorse nor support the use of illegal radio operations regardless of reason. 

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, gortex2 said:

As a public safety user and administrator I never took any shots at Public safety. My comment was and still stand that Hams nor GMRS users have any authority to program public safety channels in their radios for transmit. I feel the user has enough info from this post. I don't endorse nor support the use of illegal radio operations regardless of reason. 

Well what about all the old boat anchor equipment out there using analog VFO's? Those radios can very easily run outside of the official band limits. As a Ham it's YOUR responsibility to ensure station operation occurs within the service's band limits. In fact crystal calibrators were popular projects at the time to check RX and TX dial calibration. Some radios had them built in. Hams have gotten spoiled by the firmware in modern radios that prevent out of band operation.

So would the section referenced in a prior post now make owning one of those old radios illegal?

[MichaelLAX]

2 hours ago, gortex2 said:

My comment was and still stand that Hams nor GMRS users have any authority to program public safety channels in their radios for transmit. 

Can’t get any clearer than that! 

[Lscott]

Just for the record this is the FCC rule part covering public safety frequencies.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/90.20

[WyoJoe]

On 1/14/2022 at 7:03 AM, Sshannon said:

Section 90.427(b) specifically prohibits programming unauthorized frequencies into a transmitter:

 

<snip>

2. Mr. Joe Prepper has every frequency programmed into his portable radio.  He finds a person slumped over in the front seat of their car.  He picks up his portable radio and calls on an EMS dispatch frequency for which he is not authorized.  I believe that even though he potentially saves the life of the person, he has clearly violated 90.427(b) by having his transmitter preprogrammed with unauthorized frequencies.  I’d be surprised if he wasn’t prosecuted.

It appears that these prohibitions would apply to Part 90 equipment. I haven't investigated this matter, but is there a similar prohibition for Part 97 (amateur radio service) equipment?

[SteveShannon]

3 hours ago, WyoJoe said:

It appears that these prohibitions would apply to Part 90 equipment. I haven't investigated this matter, but is there a similar prohibition for Part 97 (amateur radio service) equipment?

The part 90 rules don't just apply to equipment certified under part 90, but also regulate the use of any equipment in "the Public Safety, Industrial/Business Radio Pool, and Radiolocation Radio Services."

[BoxCar]

Often rules set in one section are referenced in other sections and included by that reference,

[okk9]

I handle the communications for our agency (about 400 radios) in Oklahoma.  The OK Law is an old VHF freq, 155.49.  Don't think anyone monitors any of those frequencies anymore.  I know we don't even have the capability to monitor it.  We do have a VHF repeater on the state EM frequency that is used by storm spotters, but that is for the storm spotters to communicate with each other, it is only monitored in the EOC during severe weather events.  Some fire units will have the old state fire VHF channels to communicate during large grass fires, but again they are used for specific situations and not monitored by our staff.  Most of Oklahoma public safety is 800 or 700 mhz P25 trunked system.  The system is OKWIN and the other is OMACS.  Even if you got your hands on the correct supported model of P-25 radio (Moto, Kenwood, EF johnson, Harris or Tait), you would need an advanced system key issued to you by the state in order to program the radio on the system.   Hope this helps