GMRS mobile failed

[mitzvah]

In a quest to make contact with a repeater I went way up into the mountains. It was a fun time, saw a lot of stuff. But I had gone to far, I was out of cell coverage. I turned on my 20 watt mobile radio (no affiliate link below) and heard nothing. Ever though that guy on YouTube said he hit a repeater (with what ever HT he was reviewing) while in is house 69 miles away. I found that I was to far from every thing and quite screwed. Maybe my 50 watt mobile could been a better choice. So I pulled into a turn off full of tricked out Subie's with wings. I guess they were down hill racers, but they were open and friendly. So while technology failed me, a Filipino fellow with a fat tire, cold intake, turbo, warped, and winged Subie, help me get

home.  

[marcspaz]

Sucks to hear you didn't have any luck. Not only does that suck, it's one of the many reasons why I have every type of personal radio service radio in my offroad vehicles.

 

Are you sure you had repeaters programmed correctly? I have to say, on UHF with 5 watts I have talked direct to people from about 4,400 feet to the shoreline about 160 miles away.  That said, you need to be sure that there are no other mountains/hills/etc. In the way.  And also remember that the earth has a pretty sharp curve to it and UHF/GMRS is a line of sight service. If you have a poor performing radio, antenna, or if the current conditions don't support scatter or ducting, even at 4,500 feet, you will be limited to about 90 miles, even if everything is 100% perfect and zero obstruction to the horizon. 

[OffRoaderX]

That guy on youtube lives on a hill and has perfect line of site to the repeater 69 miles away - meaning there is nothing between him and it. I'm pretty sure he's explained that in pretty much every video.

And as The Spaz ^  says, if you programmed it wrong, it doesnt matter if you're standing right next to it.

[gortex2]

10 hours ago, mitzvah said:

But I had gone to far, I was out of cell coverage. 

I laugh at commercials that like this....I leave my house and have no cell. I guess I don't have to worry about using too much data in my area...lol

[mitzvah]

San Gabriel Canyon road lookout (highway 39 at about 6,000 ft elevation) is wear I met the fellow with the tricked out Subie. This spot was 13.74 miles as the crow flies North of the 210. And about 40 miles from the Mt Santiago repeater. But I heard nothing on channels 1-7 and 15-22 plus 8 repeater channels. 

[mitzvah]

I learned how to setup and program my radio from watching some old YouTube videos posted from some old guy who looks like GI Joe.

[mitzvah]

That guy on youtube lives on a hill and has perfect line of site to the repeater 69 miles away - meaning there is nothing between him and it. I'm pretty sure he's explained that in pretty much every video.

I'm not saying he is not telling the truth. I just don't see how a 5 watt HT with a range of up to 36 miles (elevated terrain)(BuyTwoWayRadios GMRS chart) and from the fellows den, though his window and though the trees across the street can hit the Mt Pal repeater 69 miles away.  

 

[wayoverthere]

3 minutes ago, mitzvah said:

That guy on youtube lives on a hill and has perfect line of site to the repeater 69 miles away - meaning there is nothing between him and it. I'm pretty sure he's explained that in pretty much every video.

I'm not saying he is not telling the truth. I just don't see how a 5 watt HT with a range of up to 36 miles (elevated terrain)(BuyTwoWayRadios GMRS chart) and from the fellows den, though his window and though the trees across the street can hit the Mt Pal repeater 69 miles away. 

Seems plausible to me, based on what I've experienced.

Ive managed 75ish miles on uhf with a 5 watt HT and signal stick antenna (likely line of sight over the valley), close to 120 on a 50 watt mobile (and 2x5/8 mobile antenna) to another uhf repeater, and have a gmrs machine 60ish miles from my "base" that I can use on the btech mobile on mid power (though clearer on high) with a 5/8 wave antenna in the top of a closet (definitely not clear LOS).

I wonder where they're coming up with that 36 mile figure.

[KAF6045]

And what type of antenna might "That guy" be using.

Stick a GMRS band YAGI (beam) antenna pointing at the repeater and I'm sure signals can improve. After all, Amateurs with high-gain yagis mounted on hand-held sticks have used 5W handhelds to work SATELLITES (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_satellite#FM_satellites) and possibly even the ISS (260 miles)

[marcspaz]

You know, there is no ERP limit with mobile radios. It would be fun to build a crazy stacked beam array and see how range improves with 50w and 14 or 15 dB of directional gain. 

[Drumbic]

38 minutes ago, mitzvah said:

That guy on youtube lives on a hill and has perfect line of site to the repeater 69 miles away - meaning there is nothing between him and it. I'm pretty sure he's explained that in pretty much every video.

I'm not saying he is not telling the truth. I just don't see how a 5 watt HT with a range of up to 36 miles (elevated terrain)(BuyTwoWayRadios GMRS chart) and from the fellows den, though his window and though the trees across the street can hit the Mt Pal repeater 69 miles away.  

 

Something tells me your radio is not programmed right for the repeater...  Have you EVER tried hitting it before you needed the it...?    What are you using/settings? 

Did you try hitting the repeater that off Mt. Wilson?

As for that YouTuber guy.  His area sits above most of the IE, with not much in the way, that's how he is able to reach so far.   He also has a repeater that I have easily hit from the 210/57 from a HT.  And hell I am up in the Desert and hitting a repeater that is roughly ~15-20 miles from me on a HT (is MUCH better with a car antenna) without issue from my garage in a housing track.. 

[WRHS218]

I can hit a repeater on the west side of Fresno County, California from the Sierra foothills on the east side of the valley 70 miles away, inside of a car with a 5W GMRS HT with standard antenna. While you cannot see that many fars on most days, there is an unobstructed line of site between my handheld and the repeater which is on top of a 5000 ft. peak. It is easily doable if the conditions are right and the equipment is working correctly.

[mitzvah]

Let me clarify my first statement. I didn't hear any traffic on any GMRS channel or repeater. So if I don't hear anybody on a GMRS channel there is no point in my making a request for HELP! As repeater step on channels 15-22 that met to me "no one was home". My antenna is a GMRS tuned mag mount Nagoya (sell check). 

[marcspaz]

You can't go by what you "hear". There is a repeater near me that has 15-20 people monitoring the machine from around 0730 in the morning until 2100 at night, but may never say a word. Sometimes none of us talk to each other for days.

 

Then there are people like me.  My base station is always on and monitoring all if the GMRS frequencies. Even if I'm not home, my wife, son or mother in-law could all answer an emergency call. 

[Drumbic]

3 hours ago, mitzvah said:

Let me clarify my first statement. I didn't hear any traffic on any GMRS channel or repeater. So if I don't hear anybody on a GMRS channel there is no point in my making a request for HELP! As repeater step on channels 15-22 that met to me "no one was home". My antenna is a GMRS tuned mag mount Nagoya (sell check). 

What radio and what are your settings?    Repeaters take extra settings to 'activate' the repeater so it itself is listening to tones. That tells the repeater HEY I have something I need to send out.  Just flipping to a repeater channels doesn't mean its configured for the repeater your are attempting to access.   Regular GMRS channels, yep, flip to channel and anyone else on that channel within rage can hear you with no extra settings.

 

EDIT:  Reading some of your other post, I am leaning toward trolling....    please prove me wrong. 

 

[quote]

 Converting older MXT115's to wide-band

mitzvah replied to Citizen's question in Technical Discussion

So very simple, you just got to SCREAM in the microphone. Then folks will say wow you got a wide band radio.

•  20 hours ago
•  
•  6 replies[/quote] 

 

[quote]

GMRS chart

mitzvah posted a topic in General Discussion

I ordered one of those GMRS charts from BTWR (no affiliate link) and found it in my mail box today. The nice mailperson had folded it in thirds. The shipper had not put a "DO NOT FOLD" stamp or label on the folder or even put a bit of cardboard to protect the chart. I'm now going to step outside an SCREAM.

 3 hours ago [/quote]

[mitzvah]

11 hours ago, Drumbic said:

trolling

what am i doing wrong?

[Sshannon]

24 minutes ago, mitzvah said:

what am i doing wrong?

Nothing.  Not everyone thinks the same way and it’s easy to call someone a troll.

[KAF6045]

1 hour ago, mitzvah said:

what am i doing wrong?

Probably nothing -- but when there are multiple threads (some of those started by you) over a 48 hour period whose only purpose is to complain about something that we have no control over it does take on a sense of "trolling".

• Problem with finishing profile -- that should have been taken up with the sysops in private, probably not a general post
• Something mangled in mail delivery -- take it up with the postmaster of your local post office
• An assumption that a lack of traffic on a (repeater) channel means no one is listening, so don't bother making a call on it (note: mismatched CTCSS tones would also produce an appearance of a lack of traffic). In the old days of GMRS (when one had to specify which two frequency pairs they wished to be licensed for), one particular frequency pair (462.675/467.675 141.3) was a designated emergency channel, any non-emergency traffic had to come from operators licensed for that frequency pair (most radios of the time only had A & B [toggle switch] for channel, and the frequencies had to be shop programmed -- if you didn't ask the FCC for that pair as one of your two channels, you had no access to the emergency channel. The Maxon GMRS-210+3 changed that; it had the "new" low power interstitials [current 1-7], emergency channel, and 2 channels that were "shop" programmable for one's licensed frequencies).
• The "scream at microphone" comment in the MXT115 widebanding thread. An action which will likely result in massive clipping as NFM tends to use around 11kHz (in 12.5kHz channel)
• The complaint that a recently received unit was useless as it required a programming cable and software to configure -- looking for a PDF of the manual before purchase might have revealed that.

There were others.

[mitzvah]

21 hours ago, Drumbic said:

Something tells me your radio is not programmed right for the repeater...  Have you EVER tried hitting it before you needed the it...?    What are you using/settings? 

Did you try hitting the repeater that off Mt. Wilson?

As for that YouTuber guy.  His area sits above most of the IE, with not much in the way, that's how he is able to reach so far.   He also has a repeater that I have easily hit from the 210/57 from a HT.  And hell I am up in the Desert and hitting a repeater that is roughly ~15-20 miles from me on a HT (is MUCH better with a car antenna) without issue from my garage in a housing track.. 

I was able to hit the repeater on Mt Wilson (one of two contacts I have made since getting into GMRS). And got a rather upset fireman screaming that the repeater was only for fireman. My only other contact was with the NotARubicon  guy who let me come on his Jeep outing. I do enjoy FRS (2 instead of 5/50).

[axorlov]

2 hours ago, mitzvah said:

And got a rather upset fireman screaming that the repeater was only for fireman

Out of curiosity, what frequency did you program for this repeater?

[KAF6045]

2 hours ago, mitzvah said:

I was able to hit the repeater on Mt Wilson (one of two contacts I have made since getting into GMRS). And got a rather upset fireman screaming that the repeater was only for fireman. My only other contact was with the NotARubicon  guy who let me come on his Jeep outing. I do enjoy FRS (2 instead of 5/50).

How did you learn about that particular repeater? It is possible it is a grandfathered "business" entity and not open for general usage. Back in 1997 (copyright date of the defunct PRSG GMRS National Repeater Guide 10th ed), pretty much all GMRS repeaters were business or special interest (for LA area: "RUG" -> Repeater Users Group) usage and one had to ask the owner if one could use it. A few of the listed repeaters give a CTCSS tone -- with the condition of "Emergency or Traveller Assistance, any other use must be arranged for by phone or in writing" (a bit paraphrased).

Even new GMRS repeaters don't have to "open" for all users. This site does show https://mygmrs.com/repeater/353 as "open" (though that [request access] button is perplexing).

If that WAS the repeater you tried, were there any significant fires in the county at the time? If there were, the repeater may have been in a priority mode.

[wayoverthere]

29 minutes ago, KAF6045 said:

How did you learn about that particular repeater? It is possible it is a grandfathered "business" entity and not open for general usage. Back in 1997 (copyright date of the defunct PRSG GMRS National Repeater Guide 10th ed), pretty much all GMRS repeaters were business or special interest (for LA area: "RUG" -> Repeater Users Group) usage and one had to ask the owner if one could use it. A few of the listed repeaters give a CTCSS tone -- with the condition of "Emergency or Traveller Assistance, any other use must be arranged for by phone or in writing" (a bit paraphrased).

Even new GMRS repeaters don't have to "open" for all users. This site does show https://mygmrs.com/repeater/353 as "open" (though that [request access] button is perplexing).

If that WAS the repeater you tried, were there any significant fires in the county at the time? If there were, the repeater may have been in a priority mode.

If that WAS the repeater....given the repeater is listed as "open" (along with the other info on the repeater page about 'open to all'), it occurs to me to wonder if the "upset fireman" was actually a fireman, someone with authority over the repeater, or just some random yahoo on a power trip.  Did the individual identify at all?

[axorlov]

34 minutes ago, wayoverthere said:

was actually a fireman

That's what I'm thinking too. The frequency of this repeater will be an answer.

[Drumbic]

Still wondering what his settings/programming is...

[mitzvah]

6 hours ago, wayoverthere said:

If that WAS the repeater....given the repeater is listed as "open" (along with the other info on the repeater page about 'open to all'), it occurs to me to wonder if the "upset fireman" was actually a fireman, someone with authority over the repeater, or just some random yahoo on a power trip.  Did the individual identify at all?

As per the map this repeater is not longer in service.