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Antenna Mast question

WRUN257

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WRUN257 Newbie

WRUN257

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I have an old Birdview satellite pole from the 1980's in my yard and was wondering if this could be used to connect mast to or what could I use this for to get a good antenna up. Planning on getting a GMRS mobile and using as a base station and later getting my ham license. Could this be used for anything such as that. Thank you in advance for your help.

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Borage257 Community Regular

Borage257

Posted
Posted

Since y'all opened the floor for mast questions:

What are your thoughts on 24' extendable painters poles for mobile/temporary/emcomm masts?

Do I need to guy or brace any extensions (factory produced) for J-mounts?

The goal height for my antenna is ~30ft ( house ridge is 25 ft).

Antennas in the running are N9tax slim Jim, Ed Fong J-pole, and Tram Browning 6140. Cable will most likely be LMR600 and it will be grounded.

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Lscott Grand Master

Lscott

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Posted
12 minutes ago, WRUN257 said:

I have an old Birdview satellite pole from the 1980's in my yard and was wondering if this could be used to connect mast to or what could I use this for to get a good antenna up. Planning on getting a GMRS mobile and using as a base station and later getting my ham license. Could this be used for anything such as that. Thank you in advance for your help.

Do you have a photo of it you can post?

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KAF6045 Experienced

KAF6045

Posted
Posted

Photo would definitely help. I presume the dish itself is long gone?

If all you have is the mounting post (without the dish alignment junk on top), I suspect most moderate mast poles would be usable (if you can find a U-bolt bracket that will fit around the post, and still fit the mast). The dish would have been a big wind target so the post is likely fairly well seated in concrete.

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WRUN257 Newbie

WRUN257

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Posted
11 hours ago, Lscott said:

Looks like you’ll have no problem clamping a good length of mast to that pipe.

@LscottSo just get some U-Bolts and connect it like that. I thought about buying a 10ft mast and connecting to it and adding an antenna like this one. What are your thoughts on that.

21jsB0-WWiL._AC_.jpg

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Lscott Grand Master

Lscott

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, WRUN257 said:

@LscottSo just get some U-Bolts and connect it like that. I thought about buying a 10ft mast and connecting to it and adding an antenna like this one. What are your thoughts on that.

21jsB0-WWiL._AC_.jpg

You might need bigger U-Bolts. That pipe looks rather larger in diameter. I would consider getting a length of antenna mast to get the antenna up higher. Getting it up higher than the local home roof peaks would be the minimum I would recommend. 

Don't be tempered to use stuff like water pipe, fence pipe etc. All of those are soft and will bend easily in a modest wind. Antenna mast is manufactured using higher strength material.

https://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/technicalarticles/dxe-st300cm-22.pdf

https://www.hamuniverse.com/antennamastguying.html

https://mgs4u.com/fiberglass-push-up-masts/

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WRUN257 Newbie

WRUN257

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Lscott said:

You might need bigger U-Bolts. That pipe looks rather larger in diameter. I would consider getting a length of antenna mast to get the antenna up higher. Getting it up higher than the local home roof peaks would be the minimum I would recommend. 

Don't be tempered to use stuff like water pipe, fence pipe etc. All of those are soft and will bend easily in a modest wind. Antenna mast is manufactured using higher strength material.

https://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/technicalarticles/dxe-st300cm-22.pdf

https://www.hamuniverse.com/antennamastguying.html

https://mgs4u.com/fiberglass-push-up-masts/

Thank you!! Do you have any ideas for antennas that don't need guy lines or don't need a lot that take up a lot of space.  May yard isn't that big, 70ft wide. plus I have 2 younger kids that like to play in the back yard as well. All ideas would be greatly appreciated.

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Lscott Grand Master

Lscott

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, WRUN257 said:

Thank you!! Do you have any ideas for antennas that don't need guy lines or don't need a lot that take up a lot of space.  May yard isn't that big, 70ft wide. plus I have 2 younger kids that like to play in the back yard as well. All ideas would be greatly appreciated.

One of those fiber glass masts might work. Getting one with a larger diameter, which may not need any guy wires, and keeping the height high enough to do the job is worth looking at. You can contact the manufacture and see what they recommend.

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BoxCar Mentor

BoxCar

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, WRUN257 said:

Thank you!! Do you have any ideas for antennas that don't need guy lines or don't need a lot that take up a lot of space.  May yard isn't that big, 70ft wide. plus I have 2 younger kids that like to play in the back yard as well. All ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Look into radial ground planes as a possible solution. You can also bury the ground wires using a slit trench.

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Lscott Grand Master

Lscott

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

Look into radial ground planes as a possible solution. You can also bury the ground wires using a slit trench.

The old sat disk mount is most likely in a lump of cement so no real connection to the earth. He would need a good ground rod at the base with a heavy gauge copper wire between it and the antenna base. I don't see the need for a ground radial system.

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SteveShannon Grand Master

SteveShannon

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Lscott said:

The old sat disk mount is most likely in a lump of cement so no real connection to the earth. He would need a good ground rod at the base with a heavy gauge copper wire between it and the antenna base. I don't see the need for a ground radial system.

An electrode encased in concrete is a valid grounding method. Concrete is frequently a better conductor than dry ground. 
See Ufer ground:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ufer_ground

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WRUN257 Newbie

WRUN257

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Can these type of mast be used on side of houses or sheds and attach the GMRS antenna to it. Or can I use a (Rohn - 36ft Telescoping Mast for Radio Cellular WiFi and TV Antennas (H40)) against my shed and bracket it up.

antenna mast.jpg

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wrci350 Rising Star

wrci350

Posted
Posted

I misspoke.  I used a galvanized fence post.  Definitely not soft material.

It's been up for nearly two years and we've had some pretty good wind storms.  No issues at all.

The wind load on a 5 or 10 foot vertical is pretty low.

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marcspaz Grand Master

marcspaz

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lscott said:

Bad advise. The pipe rail material is too soft, doesn't have the mechanical strength to resist anything other than a VERY light wind load without bending, even for modest lengths.

 

Agreed.  Many years ago I had a 5 foot fence pipe I was using as an extension, trying to avoid buying "mast" pipe.  It was literally just holding the weight of the antenna and transmission line.  We had a about a 10-12 mph wind gust and the pipe folded.  Totaled a $250 portable mast and a $300 antenna.  The $100 I saved cost me $550.

 

I have a satellite dish mount on the roof of the house, that I have my repeater antenna mounted to.  So far, I has survived sustained 60+ mph wind and a few 90+ mph gusts.

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SteveShannon Grand Master

SteveShannon

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

 

Agreed.  Many years ago I had a 5 foot fence pipe I was using as an extension, trying to avoid buying "mast" pipe.  It was literally just holding the weight of the antenna and transmission line.  We had a about a 10-12 mph wind gust and the pipe folded.  Totaled a $250 portable mast and a $300 antenna.  The $100 I saved cost me $550.

 

I have a satellite dish mount on the roof of the house, that I have my repeater antenna mounted to.  So far, I has survived sustained 60+ mph wind and a few 90+ mph gusts.

I agree also.  Actual masts designed for this application are available at reasonable prices.  Here’s a ten foot Rohn antenna mast for $30, which isn’t much more than the ten foot top rail sold by the local box store:

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/roh-161005ghs

This one was at DX Engineering, but if you’re near a Ham Radio Outlet you may be able to pick it up and save shipping (which is what makes the dance rails attractive).

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marcspaz Grand Master

marcspaz

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Borage257 said:

What are your thoughts on 24' extendable painters poles for mobile/temporary/emcomm masts?

 

Plastic, aluminum or fiberglass? 

 

Have to be honest, I like to save money, but I also what my stuff to work when I need it to.  If you are using a non-conductive pole (and there is no PVC in it) you can get away with it holding a wire antenna or a small NGP antenna.  I would 100% guy it about 5 feet from the bottom so the bottom doesn't kick out  and at the very top.

 

I wouldn't make it a permanent fixture, but for mobile/temporary/emcomm, you can probably get away with it.

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Borage257 Community Regular

Borage257

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, marcspaz said:

 

Plastic, aluminum or fiberglass? 

 

Have to be honest, I like to save money, but I also what my stuff to work when I need it to.  If you are using a non-conductive pole (and there is no PVC in it) you can get away with it holding a wire antenna or a small NGP antenna.  I would 100% guy it about 5 feet from the bottom so the bottom doesn't kick out  and at the very top.

 

I wouldn't make it a permanent fixture, but for mobile/temporary/emcomm, you can probably get away with it.

aluminum

 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Unger-24-ft-Aluminum-Telescopic-Pole-with-Connect-and-Clean-Locking-Cone-and-Quick-Flip-Clamps-972980/313314116

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