GMRS Base Station Simplex Range

[WRUE915]

I want to talk to someone on simplex within 8-10 miles in a relatively flat suburban environment. Assuming the use of a 20 watt base station for both parties, and both using the same antenna.
 
Would a j-pole (or other omni directional antenna) make this happen?
 
Or would a yagi be necessary? Assuming we could both point the yagi at each other.
 
Should be able to get the antenna mounted on the roof, probably sitting around 20-25' depending on the antenna size.
 
I'm tempted to buy a couple options and just experiment, but was wondering what y'all have tried in a similar situation.
 
Or is this all outside the capability of the UHF bands on GMRS?
 
Thanks!
 
Jake

[SteveShannon]

17 minutes ago, WRUE915 said:

I want to talk to someone on simplex within 8-10 miles in a relatively flat suburban environment. Assuming the use of a 20 watt base station for both parties, and both using the same antenna.
 
Would a j-pole (or other omni directional antenna) make this happen?
 
Or would a yagi be necessary? Assuming we could both point the yagi at each other.
 
Should be able to get the antenna mounted on the roof, probably sitting around 20-25' depending on the antenna size.
 
I'm tempted to buy a couple options and just experiment, but was wondering what y'all have tried in a similar situation.
 
Or is this all outside the capability of the UHF bands on GMRS?
 
Thanks!
 
Jake
 

It’s not outside the capabilities of GMRS. You shouldn’t need Yagi antennas. 
I’m no expert on J-poles, but I would expect to be able to communicate ten miles away easily with a decent mobile antenna on a car. 
If you have the J-poles already try them. 

[KAF6045]

21 minutes ago, WRUE915 said:

I want to talk to someone on simplex within 8-10 miles in a relatively flat suburban environment. Assuming the use of a 20 watt base station for both parties, and both using the same antenna.
 
Would a j-pole (or other omni directional antenna) make this happen?
 

The Grand Rapids City repeater typically just reaches 20 or so miles (on a good day it may make 30) -- but that is a 50W repeater on a 300 foot tower, with a 6dB gain antenna (ERP => 200W).

 

[WRUE915]

I have reached repeaters on the mountain from 50-60 miles on a 5 watt HT with ease. But those repeaters are 2000-3000' above my transmit altitude. We have tried simplex with the mobiles installed on vehicles around town. The antennas can't be more than 7-8' high. No luck. But being suburbia, there are many obstacles at those heights.

Antenna height is king, I know... may just need to get the antenna mounted as high as possible on the roof. Without spending a fortune, a j-pole or ed fong came to mind.

Maybe I will try the roof with the mobile antenna for starters before investing in something else.

[Borage257]

I can get 10 miles on my base station on simplex. Roll up jpole at 30ft to another antenna at 30 ft.

[gortex2]

Yagi would be the best bet. But also the cable is important. Putting a yagi 40' in the air with RG58 doesn't help. You will need good cable to go with the Yagi. 

[pcradio]

Have both parties stand on their respective roofs with 5w hand HTs to get a general idea.

[AdmiralCochrane]

I have only made car to car simplex transmissions in the 10 mile range on one occaision.

[Borage257]

2 hours ago, AdmiralCochrane said:

I have only made car to car simplex transmissions in the 10 mile range on one occaision.

I've hit repeaters about 45 miles out on my car mobile. I had the high ground and the repeater is on a tall commercial tower.

[WRUE915]

No offense here... yes we can all chat line of sight out to 50+ miles when one of the station is up on a hill a few thousand feet... even with a $20 CCR.

But my question is specific to flat suburbia. With any wattage for that matter. Just haven't played with UHF simplex over a distance more than a mile or two.

Many folks are using GMRS now... my goal is to solve the long range UHF limits. VHF would solve this problem, but none of my family is licensed for that.

Sounds like I need to buy a few antennas and masts to play with this myself.

[Borage257]

21 minutes ago, WRUE915 said:

But my question is specific to flat suburbia. With any wattage for that matter. Just haven't played with UHF simplex over a distance more than a mile or two

I'm in a fairly flat part of east Texas. With an antenna at 30' I can do about 10-11 miles through the 90' pines to another user who also has an antenna at about 30'. Ive done as much as 75 miles on a 5w and yagi.

Its mostly about height. If you can get your family to get antennas ( ED Fong 5dB antennas will be cost effective) mounted at or above the ridge line of the their houses and get some decent cable (LMR or KMR 400) you'll be in business. You could also try some of the 17 ft long 7-9dB dual band antennas. In flat areas higher gain antennas will do better.

Also use a RF line of sight tool to check between stations. If you want to get a little further in the weeds, you can use Radio Mobile Online to map you coverage.

[WRUU653]

I like PCRADIO’s suggestion of getting on the roof to test things out. It also looks like some repeaters in your area that you may be able to do a comparison with. 

[WRUE915]

I'm in a fairly flat part of east Texas. With an antenna at 30' I can do about 10-11 miles through the 90' pines to another user who also has an antenna at about 30'. Ive done as much as 75 miles on a 5w and yagi.
Its mostly about height. If you can get your family to get antennas ( ED Fong 5dB antennas will be cost effective) mounted at or above the ridge line of the their houses and get some decent cable (LMR or KMR 400) you'll be in business. You could also try some of the 17 ft long 7-9dB dual band antennas. In flat areas higher gain antennas will do better.
Also use a RF line of sight tool to check between stations. If you want to get a little further in the weeds, you can use Radio Mobile Online to map you coverage.

Thank you for the input. This is encouraging.

[Borage257]

Keep in mind, things like industrial zones, heavy transmission lines, forests (especially after rain events) and built up areas can mess with UHF propagation. I cant talk with my wife between our house and an old employer due to the number of steel buildings at the old job site. I cant talk with family 8 miles away because their house is surrounded by transmission lines. I could however hit the local repeater and talk with them.

[MichaelLAX]

6 hours ago, pcradio said:

Have both parties stand on their respective roofs with 5w hand HTs to get a general idea.

And at the same time try two MURS HTs as well!

Maybe 20 watt UHF can be beat with 2 watts VHF up to rooftop antennas.

But altitude and line of sight will be important here:

[WRUE915]

With 5 watt HTs standing on the roof of our 1 story houses about 8 miles away... simplex worked great! When I stood in the right spot anyways. Some picket fencing depending on where I was on the roof.

A better base antenna and a touch more power should help. Thanks all for the tips.

[Borage257]

The more height your antenna has, the further your range. If you get your antenna up about 30’ you should get some decent range. 

[WRUE915]

Yup. Time for a base station.

[Borage257]

1 hour ago, WRUE915 said:

Yup. Time for a base station.

DB20G isnt bad for the money, makes a good ammo can radio.

[PartsMan]

My personal experience.

A j-pole in a tube just above the roofline made a huge difference

over a 1/4 wave on an ammo can in my living room. 

I can get 10 miles easy and 20 with high ground

All with 15 and 20 watt Chinese mobile/base radios.

[Borage257]

@PartsMan add a yagi and you’ll really get some range!

[PartsMan]

51 minutes ago, Borage257 said:

@PartsMan add a yagi and you’ll really get some range!

I would like to experiment with a yagi but the direction I would want to go farther has a hill in the way.

[Borage257]

1 hour ago, PartsMan said:

I would like to experiment with a yagi but the direction I would want to go farther has a hill in the way.

Get one anyway for ht experimentation! See how far you can simplex between your ‘base’ and a ht w/yagi.

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

I can transmit north to my workplace here in Orlando and transmitted from Disney to my home base station. About 8 to 10 miles.  Getting three repeaters but I've learned that I can't move my Antenna much or I can't get the 700 Repeater. Looking at cutting some trees soon as well. New to everything.  Using the Ed Fong GMRS Antenna just . I just wanted coverage for our area during storms etc so I'm satisfied for now.