MURS use

[gscanter]

Would it be legal to use MURS (with correct band width an power output) to link two GMRS repeaters? Opinions?

[back4more70]

Would this in turn create a MURS repeater?

§ 95.2733 Prohibited MURS uses.

MURS stations must not be operated as repeater stations or signal boosters. This prohibition includes store-and-forward packet operation.

[gscanter]

It would not be a MURS repeater in the normal sense of the word.  It is just forwarding the audio in simplex mode between GMRS repeaters.

Steve

[SteveShannon]

1 hour ago, gscanter said:

It would not be a MURS repeater in the normal sense of the word.  It is just forwarding the audio in simplex mode between GMRS repeaters.

Steve

Something that forwards audio via RF is a repeater. The fact that you're crossing services is a regulatory problem, but there are technical issues also.

How exactly would it work?  Two MURS simplex radios connecting two full-duplex GMRS repeaters? From a technical standpoint (disregarding the rules temporarily) that's not possible.  The only way to connect duplex repeaters requires duplex communications.

Would they be working automatically? Are the two GMRS repeaters within range of each other?  If not, how are the MURS radios within range of each other?

[gortex2]

You can not mix MURS and GMRS. Different rules. 

[gscanter]

There would be a VHF mobile linked through the repeater controller for the GMRS.  The controller has 3 ports so a VHF mobile could be placed to transfer the audio (with correct bandwidth and 2 watts) in simplex mode.  Both repeaters should be able to "hear" each other only two watts. The rules only really speak of the wattage and the band width with nothing saying that this could not be done,

[SteveShannon]

1 minute ago, gscanter said:

There would be a VHF mobile linked through the repeater controller for the GMRS.  The controller has 3 ports so a VHF mobile could be placed to transfer the audio (with correct bandwidth and 2 watts) in simplex mode.  Both repeaters should be able to "hear" each other only two watts. The rules only really speak of the wattage and the band width with nothing saying that this could not be done,

Sorry, my post above is a moving target.

Taking audio received by one radio and transmitting it with another is the definition of a repeater, so regulations prohibit this, but it's simply not feasible to connect two duplex GMRS repeaters using simplex unless you're only going one way and deaf in the other direction.  That's still a repeater.

[gortex2]

It would still be considered a repeater in the rules and is not allowed. They are different services. If you want stuff like this go to ham where you have much more choice on what channels link to what channels. 

[wrci350]

There are a number of amateur radios that do what you are suggesting but using 2m and 70cm frequencies.  Guess what that feature is called?  "Cross-band repeat".

[SteveShannon]

1 minute ago, wrci350 said:

There are a number of amateur radios that do what you are suggesting but using 2m and 70cm frequencies.  Guess what that feature is called?  "Cross-band repeat".

Correct!
Cross band repeat is okay because it’s all within the Amateur Radio Service. As far as I can tell, Cross Service Repeat is not permitted for any of the Personal Radio Services. 

Definitely repeaters are prohibited in MURS.

[wrci350]

Perhaps I should have added another sentence.  "It's called cross-band repeat ... because it's a repeater."

So yes, that's fine between 2m and 70cm.  But as @Sshannon notes, it's NOT fine between GMRS and MURS.

[BoxCar]

And, to put a nail in that coffin, the rules plainly state NO REPEATERS are allowed on MURS.

[Lscott]

34 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

And, to put a nail in that coffin, the rules plainly state NO REPEATERS are allowed on MURS.

Not to mention cross banding between MURS and GMRS you’re going from an unlicensed service to a licensed one. The FCC definitely won’t be pleased.

[WRQC527]

10 hours ago, gscanter said:

Would it be legal to use MURS (with correct band width an power output) to link two GMRS repeaters? Opinions?

No.

And as far as opinions, the FCC is not interested in opinions. Only rules, fines, and fees. 

The horse is dead.

[Lscott]

40 minutes ago, WRQC527 said:

The horse is dead.

It’s been a long while, starting to stink a bit now.

[kc9iqo]

Why don't we all just agree to petition the FCC for repeater use while using VHF MURS then we can call that horse dead after that's all said and done but I hardly doubt the FCC will budge on that I've been having numerous discussions on social media about this topic and a lot of them are agreeing that a petition should get sent into the FCC regarding repeater use for this since gmrs obviously allows repeater usage then I think MURS should be allowed to have its own repeater use itself.

[SteveShannon]

6 minutes ago, kc9iqo said:

Why don't we all just agree to petition the FCC for repeater use while using VHF MURS then we can call that horse dead after that's all said and done but I hardly doubt the FCC will budge on that I've been having numerous discussions on social media about this topic and a lot of them are agreeing that a petition should get sent into the FCC regarding repeater use for this since gmrs obviously allows repeater usage then I think MURS should be allowed to have its own repeater use itself.

In the first place, we don’t all agree. In my opinion MURS is intended for short distance unlicensed simplex communications. Allowing repeaters drastically changes that and would make it harder to use those five channels for short ranges. 
The fact that a licensed service like GMRS is permitted repeaters doesn’t justify MURS repeaters.  Repeaters aren’t permitted on any unlicensed services that I know of. I’m not sure why anyone would want to spend a couple thousand bucks to put a 2 watt repeater on a tower anyway. 
I just don’t understand what you’re trying to make MURS into.

[Lscott]

9 hours ago, kc9iqo said:

Why don't we all just agree to petition the FCC for repeater use while using VHF MURS then we can call that horse dead after that's all said and done but I hardly doubt the FCC will budge on that I've been having numerous discussions on social media about this topic and a lot of them are agreeing that a petition should get sent into the FCC regarding repeater use for this since gmrs obviously allows repeater usage then I think MURS should be allowed to have its own repeater use itself.

From a regulation point of view there are only 5 MURS allowed frequencies. A repeater would tie up two of them. Add in more repeaters the open simplex channels would be gone.

Then there is the technical issues. For a good repeater system you need to use a split frequency. Currently the Ham 2M VHF band, that's just below MURS, the repeaters use a 600KHz split, which requires some very good cavity filters to achieve it. The only MURS band split that will work is one channel from the 151MHz block and one from the 154MHz block. Then to really screw things up the 151MHz block is restricted to narrow band FM while the 154MHz block is wide band. Also there are NO purpose made MURS specific radios that can even do split frequency operation. That leaves just old Part 90 radios. And it's iffy those can be legally used on MURS, all dependent on on the FCC grant date.

[WRUU653]

On 2/20/2023 at 9:07 PM, Sshannon said:

Why don't we all just agree to petition the FCC for repeater use while using VHF MURS

[gortex2]

I love how folks get on forums and try to change services that have been in place for years to make it do what they want to do vs finding a service to do what they want to do. 

[zzz]

MURS = Simplex. Period.

[WRQC527]

On 2/20/2023 at 8:53 PM, kc9iqo said:

Why don't we all just agree

[jwilkers]

Would it be legal to use MURS (with correct band width an power output) to link two GMRS repeaters? Opinions?

No. GMRS and MURS are 2 different radio services. You can't do that legally


Sent from my SM-A136U using Tapatalk

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, jwilkers said:

No. GMRS and MURS are 2 different radio services.

Also MURS is limited to 2 watts so why bother? Seems pointless to me. People proposing this should remember GMRS can use up to 50 watts on the repeater channels 15 to 22 and 5 watts for handheld radios on channels 1 through 7.

[WQAI363]

On 2/15/2023 at 11:45 AM, gscanter said:

Would it be legal to use MURS (with correct band width an power output) to link two GMRS repeaters? Opinions?

According to the FCC's Rules and Regulations that would be Big NO. Just as the name implies, the Multi Use Radio Service was created for commercial and noncommercial use, even though MURS is in part 95 J.

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