Looking for business style gmrs 5w ht

[WRWH734]

I am looking for a HT I can program to only work on my repeater for my grandson. Grandson is a responsible young man, but I get concerned that the cousins he lives with may someday "toy" with the radio. So basically I am looking for something that is not field programmable in any way, will allow me to delete all but the one custom repeater channel I would program, similar to a business radio but for gmrs. 

The more rugged the better, but ruggedness is not important. 

 

Anyone have any suggestions?

 

 

 

 

[tweiss3]

A used Kenwood TK3140 would be a great option for your requirements. 

[OffRoaderX]

A used Motorola XTS5000 Model 1 would be a great option for your requirements, but be aware that it is not FCC Part 95 Type Accepted.. Not that the FCC will care, but "some people" here on the forum will stroke-out if they know you are using it on GMRS.

[Lscott]

Another suggestion is the TK-3170. I carry that one around myself. 

There is also a TK-3173 which is about the same except it will do trunking. For GMRS you don’t need that otherwise the radio is the same as the TK-3170.

The TK-3140 is a good radio as mentioned above. The difference that might make a you pick one over the other is the side port used for programming and options like speaker microphones.

The TK-3170 uses the same type of plug that many of the cheaper Chinese radios copied. Also many times you can use the same programming cable too.

The TK-3140 uses what Kenwood calls a universal connector. It has 14 spring loaded pins on the plug that makes contact with the pads on the side connector port. The nice thing with this is it keeps dirt and water from getting inside of the radio. That’s the problem with the other radios I mentioned if the port isn’t covered or an accessory plugged in it.

There are other commercial grade radios that fit you requirements others here have used and will recommend.

TK2140_3140.pdf TK-3173(K) Brochure.pdf TK-2170_3170(K) Brochure.pdf

[wayoverthere]

If you're okay with part 90 gear, there's a vx354 on ebay, at $50, battery and charger included (I did verify the part 90 grant for the FCC id shown in the photo), and even includes a speaker mic.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/364020897719

The antenna farm has the cable and software for another $49

https://www.ebay.com/itm/371254796103

Cut rate batteries has been solid on replacement batteries for the vertex stuff I have...for the vx354, $39 for made in China cells,nor $42.50 for made in Japan.

https://www.cutratebatteries.com/products/vertex-standard-vx-354-battery

[WRWH734]

I would "prefer" it be part 95 type accepted, really only because of "some people", but I'm also not afraid of "some people". If I gave a field programmable ham HT to a kid to use that would be a lot different (to me). I suspected most suggestions would be old business radios, and I guess I was right

As far as I can tell though, the only HTs out there that MIGHT fit my need are either not part 95 type accepted or are crap claiming to be (some probably are). Like Retivis rb87, rb23, rt76, rb17, (all nightmares) Wouxun KG-959 (hard to get and actually costs more than much better radios from Wouxun) - none of which will allow me to delete/disable the standard channels. 

I will look into all those suggestions. I have never programmed a Kenwood or Icon before, so that is a slight hurdle. The Motorola, as far as I remember anyway, was okay. But if I remember correctly all these old business radios are either 3 or 4 watts and previous testing with different radios were right at the fringe hitting my repeater from his place with 5w and a NA-771G so I am worried they may be just out of range with less power.

The rest of the world barely understands what US GMRS actually is still. 

[tweiss3]

The Kenwood TK radios above do have Part 95 certification. They aren't terribly large, and in fact, they are what I give the kids for most activities (ski, field day, etc.)

[Radioguy7268]

Add in the Vertex VX-231 or VX-261 (newer style version) as 4.5 watt (advertising lies when it says 5 watts) options. Either one can be set up with a single channel and are decent compact semi-rugged radios. You can also find the higher end EVX-531 online at prices under $100 complete with charger. Vertex software is available online for free if you look hard enough, or for $35 if you pick the first Google result that pops up.

 

[WRWH734]

How did they get that if they let you transmit on non-gmrs frequencies and support stuff that is not allowed on GMRS?

[WRWH734]

1 hour ago, tweiss3 said:

The Kenwood TK radios above do have Part 95 certification. They aren't terribly large, and in fact, they are what I give the kids for most activities (ski, field day, etc.)

How did they get part 95 if these radios allow tx on non-gmrs frequencies and allow stuff not allowed on GMRS?

[wayoverthere]

1 minute ago, WRWH734 said:

How did they get that if they let you transmit on non-gmrs frequencies and support stuff that is not allowed on GMRS?

If you're meaning the Kenwood's and Motorola's with dual 90/95 certification, that became verboten in the 2017 rules rewrite that also moved gmrs from 95a to 95e, iirc.

Prior to that, when it was in 95a, the overlap was allowed (I have a 90/95a vertex mobile that covers 400-470mhz, for example)

[Radioguy7268]

... and, prior Certification under Part 95 = current acceptance. ie:  Grandfathered.

[gortex2]

If you can find them, ICOM had a GMRS portable. It was the IC-F21GM portable and had a 16 channel dial on it. We sold a ton at our shop. They come up on ebay alot but normally way more than I'd spend. The ICOM F21 was the same radio but in business mode. 

https://icomamerica.com/en/products/landmobile/portables/f21gm/default.aspx

[PACNWComms]

14 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

A used Motorola XTS5000 Model 1 would be a great option for your requirements, but be aware that it is not FCC Part 95 Type Accepted.. Not that the FCC will care, but "some people" here on the forum will stroke-out if they know you are using it on GMRS.

I admit to using: a Motorola CDM1550LS+ mobile, a XTS2500 handheld, and a XPR7550e handheld, adding in GMRS to make them more useful to me. 

[Lscott]

2 hours ago, wayoverthere said:

If you're meaning the Kenwood's and Motorola's with dual 90/95 certification, that became verboten in the 2017 rules rewrite that also moved gmrs from 95a to 95e, iirc.

Prior to that, when it was in 95a, the overlap was allowed (I have a 90/95a vertex mobile that covers 400-470mhz, for example)

I have identical radio models where the only difference is the band split. For example my NX-300's come in two band splits, 450-520 and 400-470. The 450-520 has Part 95A while the other doesn't. Both FCC grants are dated for 2013 prior to the rule changes.

NX-300 FCC Grant - 2.pdf NX-300 FCC Grant - 1.pdf

[wayoverthere]

28 minutes ago, Lscott said:

I have identical radio models where the only difference is the band split. For example my NX-300's come in two band splits, 450-520 and 400-470. The 450-520 has Part 95A while the other doesn't. Both FCC grants are dated for 2013 prior to the rule changes.

NX-300 FCC Grant - 2.pdf 120.08 kB · 0 downloads NX-300 FCC Grant - 1.pdf 119.65 kB · 0 downloads

I wonder if it was a "not approved" or if Kenwood just didn't submit the 400-470 models for dual certification? Was that rule in what they'd certify earlier than I realized, before the record?

I checked the grant on my vx4207, and it shows 2004, with 22, 74, 90, and 95a approvals

[WRUE951]

i recently got a pair of Maxon's MP-4424 Handhelds. These are the same radio's many cities/counties use for their public service functions. They are extremely durable/tough radios even water proof and FCC compliant for GMRS.   You do have to program these radios but the process is pretty simple with the Maxon software.   These handheld will run circles around any Wouxun's and cost for them is not much higher than the Wouxuns..  The waiting period for mine was 3 months but i understand RFwiz hs them in stock now..  

 

[WRFP399]

I think by far the simplest "rugged" option would be a Vertex VX-231. While these aren't water/dust proof I have beat the snot out of mine over the last 15 years or so. I started using these radios back in the late 2000s for paintball. Rain, snow, mud, dust, getting hit with paintballs and they all stood up fine. I now use them along with Vertex EVX-531/534 radios for hiking and backcountry communication. They are cheap and work well. The receivers in them are far better than any of my Chinese radios. They are up to 16 channels but any channel slot not programmed will cause the radio to beep at you to let you know that channel is not programmed. Aftermarket batteries are still available for it, including extended run time batteries that will last up to 50 hours in stand-by. The programming cables you can get on eBay for 20 bucks do work for programming but won't for firmware upgrades. If you want the ability to upgrade firmware you need the Vertex FIF cable which is about $150. Upgrading firmware really isn't that important.  I have the programming software I can send to you if you need it. I attached a screen shot showing what a single channel programming might look like.

 

 

[Lscott]

2 hours ago, wayoverthere said:

I wonder if it was a "not approved" or if Kenwood just didn't submit the 400-470 models for dual certification? Was that rule in what they'd certify earlier than I realized, before the record?

I checked the grant on my vx4207, and it shows 2004, with 22, 74, 90, and 95a approvals

Good question. I never got into the details of what the technical qualification are pertaining to frequency range to get certification under the various FCC rule parts.

It could just be Kenwood felt the 450-520 band split was a better fit to cover the commercial market. Before the rule changes businesses could get a GMRS license. The 400-470 band split doesn't cover the upper end of the commercial market. It's likely a better fit for markets outside of North America. 

[WRWH734]

24 minutes ago, WRFP399 said:

I think by far the simplest "rugged" option would be a Vertex VX-231. While these aren't water/dust proof I have beat the snot out of mine over the last 15 years or so. I started using these radios back in the late 2000s for paintball. Rain, snow, mud, dust, getting hit with paintballs and they all stood up fine. I now use them along with Vertex EVX-531/534 radios for hiking and backcountry communication. They are cheap and work well. The receivers in them are far better than any of my Chinese radios. They are up to 16 channels but any channel slot not programmed will cause the radio to beep at you to let you know that channel is not programmed. Aftermarket batteries are still available for it, including extended run time batteries that will last up to 50 hours in stand-by. The programming cables you can get on eBay for 20 bucks do work for programming but won't for firmware upgrades. If you want the ability to upgrade firmware you need the Vertex FIF cable which is about $150. Upgrading firmware really isn't that important.  I have the programming software I can send to you if you need it. I attached a screen shot showing what a single channel programming might look like.

 

 

WRFP399, would you part with one?

[Lscott]

A similar radio to the VX-231 from Kenwood are the TK-3160 and TK-3360 16 channel radios. Neither one is Part 95 certified however. The TK-3360 is a somewhat newer version of the TK-3160. Both are basically idiot proof. There are only a channel selector, volume control, transmit button and two optional programmable side buttons. You could give one of these to a 5 year old and not worry much if they will much something up. 

 

TK-2360-3360 Brochure.pdf TK-2160_3160 Brochure.pdf

[wrci350]

20 hours ago, WRWH734 said:

So basically I am looking for something that is not field programmable in any way, will allow me to delete all but the one custom repeater channel I would program, similar to a business radio but for gmrs. 

@WRWH734An easier (I won't say better) option might be a Wouxun KG-805G.  I am saying "might" only because I have a KG-805M (MURS version) but not the GMRS version.

In the programming software it is possible to delete all but one channel.  You can also disable the menu and reset as well as enable auto key lock.  Even if you unlock the radio it's fixed to that one frequency.  (Spin the dial and ... nothing.)

I tested this with my KG-805M and it works the way you want.  I was also able to create a codeplug in the KG-805G software with just one repeater channel but of course I cannot test it.  Maybe someone else has one and can give it a try.

I know many would call this a "CCR" but $100 isn't cheap in my book.  You'd also need a programming cable if you don't have one.

That would seem to be a cousin-proof configuration.    I'm sure the several other suggestions are better radios, but if it were *me*, I would just go on the website and order one and have it in a couple days rather than mess with trying to find a used radio on the Internet (that might or might not work).  But that's just me.

[Lscott]

Oh, if you're worried about getting the channel selector set to the wrong position on any of the radios. Just program all the channels exactly the same. Then it doesn't matter where the channel selector is set.

[WRWH734]

1 hour ago, wrci350 said:

@WRWH734An easier (I won't say better) option might be a Wouxun KG-805G.  I am saying "might" only because I have a KG-805M (MURS version) but not the GMRS version.

In the programming software it is possible to delete all but one channel.  You can also disable the menu and reset as well as enable auto key lock.  Even if you unlock the radio it's fixed to that one frequency.  (Spin the dial and ... nothing.)

I tested this with my KG-805M and it works the way you want.  I was also able to create a codeplug in the KG-805G software with just one repeater channel but of course I cannot test it.  Maybe someone else has one and can give it a try.

I know many would call this a "CCR" but $100 isn't cheap in my book.  You'd also need a programming cable if you don't have one.

That would seem to be a cousin-proof configuration.    I'm sure the several other suggestions are better radios, but if it were *me*, I would just go on the website and order one and have it in a couple days rather than mess with trying to find a used radio on the Internet (that might or might not work).  But that's just me.

Interesting. I have had a few people tell me the default channels on the KG-805G cannot be deleted. Is it possible there are firmware version that do and do no have that limitation? Also, I believe these are field programmable, right? Just not for repeaters or something? I.e. you can manually add a channel that corresponds to gmrs 16 and ctss 1 if you want to using the menu and the diall+buttons?

Edited March 2, 2023 by WRWH734
Forgot to add a thought to the follow-up.

[SteveShannon]

7 hours ago, WRWH734 said:

How did they get part 95 if these radios allow tx on non-gmrs frequencies and allow stuff not allowed on GMRS?

Being able to transmit on frequencies isn't strictly prohibited - the radio just has to be certified for the service which uses those other frequencies and for which certification is required. Also, it must not be FRS or Amateur Radio Service. 

Here's the portion of the regulations that addresses that:

§ 95.1761 GMRS transmitter certification.

(C) No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in § 95.1763, unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required. No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. All frequency determining circuitry (including crystals) and programming controls in each GMRS transmitter must be internal to the transmitter and must not be accessible from the exterior of the transmitter operating panel or from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure.

[wayoverthere]

7 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

Being able to transmit on frequencies isn't strictly prohibited - the radio just has to be certified for the service which uses those other frequencies and for which certification is required. Also, it must not be FRS or Amateur Radio Service.

The interesting part is, in theory, it'd seem it's still possible to get 90 and 95e certification in one radio.

In reality, it's probably not worth spending on 95e certification because they're good with covering the LMR markets, and how many gmrs users are going to buy a new radio at the prices the LMR sector pays for radios?