What am I hearing?

[WRXB440]

Hello everyone, I am in Ypsilanti, MI. Listening in on channel 22 and hearing people from baton rouge and people from Michigan on some repeater. I can't make contact back and I am unaware of any repeater even close to me. Let alone a repeater able to hear baton rouge ? I am unsure what it is I am hearing. It's obviously a GMRS repeater because I keep hearing them mention it.

[marcspaz]

There are 2 possibilities, E Skip or tropospheric ducting. Based on your location, it's most likely E Skip. 

 

Sporadic E propagation (known simply as E Skip) reflects signals off relatively small "clouds" in the lower E region. E Skip propagation supports long distance communication during the approximately 6 weeks centered on summer solstice.

 

Tropo ducting also happens this time of year, when radio waves travel along temperature inversion ducts, but that is not likely what you're experiencing. Tropospheric ducting normally happens near and along water. In the US, that translates to mostly the Gulf Coast and East Coast. 

[WRKC935]

What frequency?  Where at?

You seriously can't come on here and ask that general of a question and expect an accurate answer.

Could be ducting like Marc said.  But it could be any number of different linked repeater systems. 

I was hunting around and just recently found a group that is using ham radio RF MMDVM hotspots on GMRS frequencies that are all linked together.  If someone reasonably close has something like that you could be hearing it.

Remember that there are other repeater systems out there besides this one. 

[WRUU653]

34 minutes ago, WRKC935 said:

What frequency?  Where at?

You seriously can't come on here and ask that general of a question and expect an accurate answer.

 

 

Really? He said this in his first sentence.

1 hour ago, WRXB440 said:

Ypsilanti, MI. Listening in on channel 22

Channel 22 aka 462.725. If he knew exactly where the repeater was there would be no question. 

@WRXB440 channel 22 is simplex so if you are trying to reach them and they are on a repeater you’ll need to be on the equivalent repeater channel like channel 30. Of course you’ll need the proper tones. You’re right there doesn’t seem to be a 462.725 repeater that close but there are a couple outside of your area. You could try finding the ones on the map page that match that frequency that are closest and add those tones but there’s no guarantee your radio will reach the repeater as the repeater signal very likely will be stronger than what you’re sending. @marcspaz is probably right. And frankly he knows this stuff better than I.  Keep listening maybe you’ll get some info. Good luck. 

[ULTRA2]

They are here to learn just give them information's that they need to get started, and start them on their way

[WRXB215]

14 hours ago, WRXE944 said:

transmit on 46SEVEN.550 and receive on 46TWO.550

Hehe, I had a hard time reading that at first. 

[WRXH357]

Isn't it possible that a local repeater can be "networked" (or whatever it's called) to another repeater, hence repeaters chained together for hundreds of miles??

[marcspaz]

@WRXH357 it is possible, but that would require a repeater to be near him to be heard.  I may have misread the post, but I took it as there is no repeater nearby.

[WRXH357]

"Skip" isn't always an exact thing from my experiences.  As an example:  I get skip in one area quite clear, move 100 yds and it goes away.  Move back...skip rolls in.

My thoughts:

1)  There is a repeater (not known) which is networked.

2) Skip as you described.

3) Combination of the two : A repeater in a different area (hence closer) that is on the skip

 

I say this as I experienced something of the same sort driving on the interstate in GA/SC.  Both people were talking over repeater frequency, both were not within a reasonable LOS by their own admissions.  I don't recall them suggesting the network possibility.  One was in TN driving East, the other in IN as I recall.  

 

Honestly this is what I love about radios.  As example one day I'm talking to someone in TX, the next day NY, then nothing for weeks.  Then I'm talking to the Bahamas a few days later.  

[ULTRA2]

4 hours ago, WRXH357 said:

Then I'm talking to the Bahamas a few days later.  

Wow I want to know what radio you have that you can talk to the Bahamas!!!  (lol)

[marcspaz]

I mean, technologically its possible with tropo ducting... but I can't find anything that says its legal or not.  I know that Amateurs have to apply for reciprocity for use of our gear and on our frequencies.

[WRXH357]

Do you want a list by model name or highest cost to lowest?

[WRXH357]

I've heard skip on AM (CB) all the time.  I've spoke several times to people in FL from VA.  Been driving through OK, hearing people in NYC.  Again in OK I made contact with someone in PNW.  

While hanging out with people there's always conversations about people hearing others from (insert location).

There was a guy out in CA I believe that ran a huge tower went by the name of "Motormouth Maul".  There were days I heard him coming through on the skip.   He's still around doing it on what seems to be VERY low wattage.  

 

His antenna:

 

[marcspaz]

Yeah, after working in and on communications gear professionally and being a Ham for as long as I have, there really isn't anything that would shock me as far as range goes.

[Lscott]

On 7/27/2023 at 7:01 PM, marcspaz said:

Yeah, after working in and on communications gear professionally and being a Ham for as long as I have, there really isn't anything that would shock me as far as range goes.

True.

I was talking to another ham across town in the Detroit area here on a local repeater many years ago. That repeater didn’t have a courtesy tone. If you didn’t know better it sounded like two guys talking simplex. 
 

Anyway another ham broke in on the output frequency, full quieting. We thought he was local using the repeater. Then he asked were we were located. We told him our approximate location by local towns around the main Detroit area. The guy didn’t seem to have a clue what we were talking about. When we asked him for his location we were shocked to discover he was on a mountain in New York State. This was all on the 2 meter band.

[PA141]

Sporadic E, "E skip or Es" is fairly rare at 144 MHz but several instances are documented every year in the ham community.  There are rare instances where Es has reached up to 222 MHz.  I am not aware of any openings in the 440 MHz range so I would consider this propagation mode unlikely on GMRS.  Es happens primarily in summer (late May to mid August).  

Tropospheric ducting or "tropo" is fairly common east of the Rockies, mostly in the summer through fall.   Below is a current map of propagation links from automated data stations in the 144 MHz band, https://vhf.dxview.org/.  These stations would be typical in power to GMRS, but at VHF.  Paths in red may be usable at GMRS.  Tropo commonly is usable above 440 MHz and even well into the GHz range with enhanced conditions.  Tropo can cover a few hundred to 1000 miles plus and is documented at over 2500 miles.  




Here is a tropo propagation prediction map that shows strong potential paths in many areas of the eastern US last Tuesday.  It does show a gap between MI/LA but it is only a modeled prediction based on weather patterns and at a specific time (1200 UTC).  A path could develop as the weather changed through the day.  These Hepburn, https://dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html maps are used by hams and other listening enthusiasts to find long haul propagation. 

 

Another way to find enhanced propagation is to listen to empty FM broadcast and NOAA weather channels in your area.  

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