Two groups on GMRS?

[WRXB215]

@WRQC527 I'm out of reactions but as soon as the time elapses, I'm going to like that post. 

[WRPR990]

On 9/10/2023 at 4:58 PM, OffRoaderX said:

My personal best in my Jeep is 93 miles to hit a repeater (over 150 miles if you count the guy I was talking to that was also using the repeater).. I did it once, and used the airwaves for about 45 seconds to do so.. But I still use GMRS to talk with all of my friends/acquaintances using their GMRS and FRS radios, within a mile or so of me, while offroading.. Something that is impossible to do legally with a ham radio and ham radio license.

Why is it impossible to do with a ham radio and license. Hams use HT's and do that all the time. 

[WRQC527]

59 minutes ago, WRPR990 said:

Why is it impossible to do with a ham radio and license. Hams use HT's and do that all the time. 

I think he means hams communicating legally with GMRS or FRS using ham radios.

[WRPR990]

6 hours ago, WRQC527 said:

I think he means hams communicating legally with GMRS or FRS using ham radios.

Now that I see how you worded it, I think that's probably what he meant. I'm a ham, and that's why I couldn't quite figure it out. Besides having a ham license, I also have a GMRS license, and I know several hams that also have GMRS licenses. A lot of us use the UV-5R and have them programed for GMRS, FRS, MRS as well as ham repeaters. I do, and when I talk on ham, I'll use my ham call of KM4JZJ, and when on GMRS frequencies, I'll use WRPR990. If we don't use a repeater, we'll go simplex, or even FRS. Or maybe MRS. We don't care, we have several options to choose from. 

[JohnnyQ1964]

Great question... But I'm new here but still have an opinion.  I don't have a ham license... I suppose I could get one and then go get a ham radio.  But I don't really need to talk to someone, let's say somewhere in the Inland Empire area, CA (not that there's anything wrong with him   ). 

But I'd like to chat with those around me that have similar interests, possibly.  Make me feel special using a radio (I know it doesn't take much).  AND of course of having the benefit of having a radio when I go camping / hiking etc... with family and friends...  also, having it when I go travelling in my camper van.  Doesn't tie up my cell, and don't have to worry about getting a crazy expensive cell service package (yes, sorry, I'm Canadian) when I go stateside, I can just get a frugal (cheap) one.

Being able to listen to some chatter around me when I'm out and about makes me feel connected when I'm out in the big wide world.  I know I can hear it already... that's what a ham radio is for... well, like I said if that guy in the Inland Empire is never going to get one and there are ways of chatting over extended distances... why do I need to?

[UncleYoda]

@JohnnyQ1964  It's not clear to me what you're saying.  2 meter and 70cm HAM are good for local area but need to go through repeater to get more distance.  You don't have to do shortwave (HF) just because you get a HAM license.  Mostly, the difference is HAM is only for talking to other HAMs.  GMRS does have a license too but no test and it can be used to talk to unlicensed FRS users as well.  You could do what a lot of us do and use/have all of them including CB.

[WRQC527]

1 hour ago, JohnnyQ1964 said:

I don't have a ham license

 

1 hour ago, JohnnyQ1964 said:

But I'd like to chat with those around me that have similar interests, possibly.

It's been said many a time here that GMRS and FRS are "bring your own contacts" services, meaning that you're not going to find a lot of people hanging out on either repeaters or simplex just waiting to conversate. Some folks here enjoy and highly recommend Grindr for that reason. I prefer amateur radio (VHF and UHF) for talking to my circle of friends either on the road or on the hiking trail, and HF for seeing how far I can toss my signal, and GMRS for occasionally conversating with my wife who has zero interest in an amateur radio license.

[PA141]

18 hours ago, JohnnyQ1964 said:

 

 having the benefit of having a radio when I go camping / hiking etc... with family and friends...  also, having it when I go travelling in my camper van. 

A General class ham license could be quite helpful in the back country in an emergency.  With NVIS propagation on 40 or 80 meters you have a good chance of getting a signal out of a canyon or where no ham or GMRS repeater coverage exists.  Even 40M during the day with a hamstick antenna has provided a surprising amount of signals deep in the Sierra Nevada on various trips.

Regardless of if you want to just chat, having at least one person with HF capability in your group is worth the effort to pass a couple of tests (even more so if traveling solo).

[marcspaz]

37 minutes ago, PA141 said:

A General class ham license could be quite helpful in the back country in an emergency.  With NVIS propagation on 40 or 80 meters you have a good chance of getting a signal out of a canyon or where no ham or GMRS repeater coverage exists.  Even 40M during the day with a hamstick antenna has provided a surprising amount of signals deep in the Sierra Nevada on various trips.

Regardless of if you want to just chat, having at least one person with HF capability in your group is worth the effort to pass a couple of tests (even more so if traveling solo).

 

 

I am onboard with this too.  I have mentioned before that if I could only have one radio with me, it would be a 40m radio and a wire antenna.  For NVIS, the wire only needs to be a few feet off the ground and you can cover hundreds of miles in any direction. 

The only thing that stinks is carrying it.  A solar charged, battery powered 100w radio adds 10 lbs. A solar charged, battery powered 5w-12w radio still adds 7 lbs.

[RayP]

I think GMRS can accomodate family/personal use as well as occasional socializing/chatting.  As others have noted, long-winded keydowns and blather for the sake of blather can be annoying but occasional conversations are good and can develope friendships and a sense of community on a local repeater(s).  I think GMRS was intended for mostly local comms and should stay that way.  In my book, "local" means as far as one radio can reach to another or to a repeater.  If your setup and the repeater allow you to reach the repeater regularly at 150-200, miles away, you are local.  If rare conditions let you hit a repeater 700 miles away, that is cool, too.  Most would be glad to hear from you and to say "hi".

  These pointless linked and networked systems are an abomination in that they pipe in jabber from other areas that have nothing to do with your local area.  A husband trying to reach his wife (or vice versa) traveling through a cellular deadspot will play heck getting through to each-other on the local repeater when it is jammed with ratchet jaws who are all on one or two repeaters on the other side of the state or nation, being piped in because the local repeater owner thinks being linked in to these drones is somehow "kewel".  If there is a break in the ratchet jawing from afar, and the husband and wife do connect for a brief talk, expect some emotionally needy dork on the other side of the country to break in because, "I just wanted to say hi".

Honest, in most cases, we really don't care what is happening hundreds or thousands of miles away, or what someone in those distant places has to say on GMRS.  If DX is your thing, get a ham license.  If you are too lazy for that, use CB when the skip is running.  Or call up some friend, relative, or random person a few states away or even in another country, and talk with them on the phone.  You will be using the same technology that allows for these repeater and network links on GMRS, but without denying someone else use of the frequency who is hundreds or thousands of miles distant.

[Sshannon]

Everything in life can be taken to an extreme.  Having all eight repeater channels tied up for a single network of repeaters in a small area would be stupid.  However, having eight repeaters networked together to provide stateline to stateline coverage across a small sparsely populated state could have its benefits.  My use case consists of going out in the country and talking simplex to my real friends, but I'm okay with people using GMRS however they want as long.  I have two knobs that control my enjoyment.  One changes the channel and the other turns the radio off.  

 

[KAF6430]

22 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

Everything in life can be taken to an extreme.  Having all eight repeater channels tied up for a single network of repeaters in a small area would be stupid.  However, having eight repeaters networked together to provide stateline to stateline coverage across a small sparsely populated state could have its benefits.  My use case consists of going out in the country and talking simplex to my real friends, but I'm okay with people using GMRS however they want as long.  I have two knobs that control my enjoyment.  One changes the channel and the other turns the radio off.  

 

Yeah, I agree with this. I also don't see the major issues that others are complaining about. That doesn't make their complaints invalid; it means that they aren't universal. 

 Linking is very useful to widen the coverage in a metro area, and bring in some rural repeaters in the state. Here in Minneapolis/St. Paul, we have a mix of linked and unlinked repeaters. Unlike others with a 100-mile reach, we don't have any mountains and 10 miles is average. That means linking repeaters on the fringes of the metro can provide more continuous coverage, and connect local operators. We do have a few repeaters 50 to 100 miles away that are linked to the metro, but that just means that the rural repeaters that would normally be dead now have a little activity. If someone doesn't like the activity on the linked repeaters, we have two nice unlinked repeaters; a third is going up soon. I own two of them, and the issue is more of a lack of internet connectivity at the sites than any antipathy toward linking. 

  I don't really care what the FCC considered the "purpose" of GMRS was when they created it. CB didn't evolve the way the FCC anticipated, either. If anything, the FCC has opened up both GMRS and CB to *accommodate* the new uses. What I see is people using GMRS in the same way that they would use amateur UHF FM -- which also has Echolink, AllStar, and other analog VOIP modes. As long as people comply with the rules, I don't care how they use my repeaters or if that operation conforms to the FCC's "vision" from 50 years ago. 

 Aw, I made a "multi-paragraph" post. Apparently, that means something bad to some people.

KAF6430 / KD0TLS

[RayP]

On 9/12/2023 at 11:34 AM, WRQC527 said:

You know what's weird? I'll tell you what's weird. Thanks for asking. There was a time when CB radio was supposed to be for short range comms. Then DXers got hold of it to see how far they could talk. Like amateur radio. Then along comes GMRS. It was supposed to be for short-range comms. Then DXers got hold of it and and linked their repeaters so they can talk all over the country. Like amateur radio. With all the amateur radio bashing that goes on here, why do so many people want GMRS to be like amateur radio? 

I will be coming back to give this an up-vote when my reactions bank is replenished.

[RayP]

On 9/12/2023 at 1:55 AM, axorlov said:

It's a free country. If you don't want to listen to linked repeaters, then you do not. If you want to listen to rag chews and join in, then you do. Ride your own bike and let others decide what do they want.

 

Normally, I would totally agree.  That said, we only have eight 50W Simplex/Repeater channels on GMRS.  In an increasing number of areas, more and more repeaters and "nodes" are being added which pipe in inane chatter from all over the state and/or nation for much of the day.  This makes ignoring those setups less of an option when the garbage being piped in from elsewhere ties up half or in some cases, all of those eight channels.  If your own bike is using a repeater or 50W simplex to stay in touch with family or friends in your local area, riding it becomes very difficult when you have multiple repeaters or nodes that pipe in pointless chatter from around the country jamming an axe handle between your spokes.

Just sayin'...

[KAF6430]

On 9/19/2023 at 3:56 AM, RayP said:

Normally, I would totally agree.  That said, we only have eight 50W Simplex/Repeater channels on GMRS.  In an increasing number of areas, more and more repeaters and "nodes" are being added which pipe in inane chatter from all over the state and/or nation for much of the day.  This makes ignoring those setups less of an option when the garbage being piped in from elsewhere ties up half or in some cases, all of those eight channels.  If your own bike is using a repeater or 50W simplex to stay in touch with family or friends in your local area, riding it becomes very difficult when you have multiple repeaters or nodes that pipe in pointless chatter from around the country jamming an axe handle between your spokes.

Just sayin'...

 How many parts of the country have all eight repeater channels dedicated to linked repeaters? I live in a major metropolitan area (Minneapolis/St. Paul), and we have only two linked repeaters. One of those is a low-coverage repeater operating from a home, so the vast majority of the metro isn't 'disturbed' by the horror of linked traffic on that pair. The other linked repeater is the most popular, because it allows metro operators to connect with a few rural MN repeaters that would otherwise have no traffic. Most of Minnesota has no repeater at all available. I see the same situation in the neighboring states of IA, SD, ND, and WI. So, this idea that everyone is living in some linked repeater hellscape without options seems unfounded. 

 Also, from what I hear on the linked repeaters here is not a case of non-stop activity. It's very sporadic, with few roundtable conversations going beyond 15 minutes, and the operators are always willing to cede to others. 

 If you live in an area with no unlinked options, I would suggest you discuss it with your local repeater owners, rather than railing against something that is quite useful in most parts of the country. Or suggest that they turn the link off during certain times. 

[RayP]

14 hours ago, KAF6430 said:

 How many parts of the country have all eight repeater channels dedicated to linked repeaters? I live in a major metropolitan area (Minneapolis/St. Paul), and we have only two linked repeaters. One of those is a low-coverage repeater operating from a home, so the vast majority of the metro isn't 'disturbed' by the horror of linked traffic on that pair. The other linked repeater is the most popular, because it allows metro operators to connect with a few rural MN repeaters that would otherwise have no traffic. Most of Minnesota has no repeater at all available. I see the same situation in the neighboring states of IA, SD, ND, and WI. So, this idea that everyone is living in some linked repeater hellscape without options seems unfounded. 

 Also, from what I hear on the linked repeaters here is not a case of non-stop activity. It's very sporadic, with few roundtable conversations going beyond 15 minutes, and the operators are always willing to cede to others. 

 If you live in an area with no unlinked options, I would suggest you discuss it with your local repeater owners, rather than railing against something that is quite useful in most parts of the country. Or suggest that they turn the link off during certain times. 

I am in a general area with two linked repeaters tied in to more.  Conversations entirely on the most distant one regularly tie up the two closer to me.  Another guy has put up a big repeater tied in to a big national network along with a couple of nodes and another guy still, felt it necessary to link his short range repeater into that network.

AFAIK, GMRS was not created so that people get to "enjoy" useless chatter from across the state or across the nation.  It was for families, friends, and others, to have reasonably reliable two-way radio comms in their local area.  I define "local" as how far a base, mobile, ht, or repeater, can reach to other devices in the area it is set up in, be it 5 miles or 100 miles, depending on terrain and gear used.  If dead air is so worrisome, there are options available without unnecessarily clogging the 8 existing repeater/50W Simplex channels with pointless noise.  Ideas include:

1) get your ham Tech license.  It really isn't that hard.  A little reading and study.  No more Morse Code test.  Hams have waay more repeater frequencies at VHF and UHF and can therefore better handle the linking.

2) If too lazy or whatever for #1, CB allows for talking and hearing skip from all over.  Unlike internet linking, which is really no different than VOIP phone calls, your radio, antenna, and location, come together to allow you to talk to a distant state (or country) using the airwaves, not a glorified phone network.

3) If your base, ht, or mobile, allows; program in some ham repeaters or other frequencies and listen to them.

4) Download a scanner app and listen to public safety and ham stuff from across the country.

5) call someone on your phone, in the next county or the other side of the country.  Be it a friend, relative, or a random desk clerk at a big chain motel; you can experience the same "thrill" of talking to distant places using the same (VOIP) technology that makes those trendy and kewel repeater linkups possible.  And you don't even have to remember to key or unkey a mic!

[WRYT685]

On 9/10/2023 at 4:26 PM, JamesBrox said:

I respect your POV and what the FCCs intended but who wouldn't like to see how far they can reach? Just asking.   

That's what Amateur Radio bands are for. 

[KAF6430]

On 9/24/2023 at 12:15 AM, RayP said:

I am in a general area with two linked repeaters tied in to more.  Conversations entirely on the most distant one regularly tie up the two closer to me.  Another guy has put up a big repeater tied in to a big national network along with a couple of nodes and another guy still, felt it necessary to link his short range repeater into that network.

AFAIK, GMRS was not created so that people get to "enjoy" useless chatter from across the state or across the nation.  It was for families, friends, and others, to have reasonably reliable two-way radio comms in their local area.  I define "local" as how far a base, mobile, ht, or repeater, can reach to other devices in the area it is set up in, be it 5 miles or 100 miles, depending on terrain and gear used.  If dead air is so worrisome, there are options available without unnecessarily clogging the 8 existing repeater/50W Simplex channels with pointless noise.  Ideas include:

1) get your ham Tech license.  It really isn't that hard.  A little reading and study.  No more Morse Code test.  Hams have waay more repeater frequencies at VHF and UHF and can therefore better handle the linking.

2) If too lazy or whatever for #1, CB allows for talking and hearing skip from all over.  Unlike internet linking, which is really no different than VOIP phone calls, your radio, antenna, and location, come together to allow you to talk to a distant state (or country) using the airwaves, not a glorified phone network.

3) If your base, ht, or mobile, allows; program in some ham repeaters or other frequencies and listen to them.

4) Download a scanner app and listen to public safety and ham stuff from across the country.

5) call someone on your phone, in the next county or the other side of the country.  Be it a friend, relative, or a random desk clerk at a big chain motel; you can experience the same "thrill" of talking to distant places using the same (VOIP) technology that makes those trendy and kewel repeater linkups possible.  And you don't even have to remember to key or unkey a mic!

So... this horrible problem that you feel the need to complain about consists of two pairs out of eight being occupied by linked repeaters in your area. And that leaves you with 'only' six channels for your preferred 50W simplex activity. 

IOW, you have the exact same number of linked repeaters in your "general area" as we have here in the MSP/STP metro. Yet no one gets bent out of shape over that situation here. If they don't want to listen to linked traffic, they use the other six channels. Using a repeater is not "tying it up". Perhaps other people would consider your use of the other un-linked pairs to be "tying up" the frequency with "useless chatter" that has no relevance to their lives. 

 It really doesn't matter why GMRS was created. Many of the Services created by the FCC have taken off in different ways than the FCC originally envisioned. What matters to the FCC is that they are used in compliance with the regulations. So please don't imply that the FCC is backing you up in your crusade against "useless chatter". CB, for example, strictly forbade "skip" contacts since its creation (QSOs over 150 miles, specifically). Yet, in the last Part 97 overhaul, they eliminated that restriction. CB was originally conceived as a licensed service, yet that didn't matter to the FCC when they eliminated the need for a license. VHF marine used to require an examination and a marine operators permit. Yet, the FCC did away with that and reduced it to a Restricted Radiotelephone permit with no exam. When the FCC created GMRS, they didn't envision the FRS. Yet, they made sweeping changes to expand FRS use in traditionally GMRS space. Certainly, linked repeaters were never envisioned when the FCC created the Amateur service, nor packet or satcom. Instead, these new uses were accommodated. 

 There is nothing in the GMRS regulations that require conversations be erudite, sparkling, or serious. There are limitations on profanity, of course. But I've heard plenty of "family" conversations that would fit the category of "useless chatter". That doesn't bother me, or anyone else. Change the channel. You admit that only two pairs in your area contain this "useless chatter", so you have options.  

 It's not that dead air is "worrisome", as you put it. Not even sure where you came up with that strawman. As a licensed ham, I can recall curmudgeons bitterly complaining about Echolink and IRLP traffic on local repeaters when that began a decade ago. They employed the same arguments as you do: it's not what 2M FM was intended for, and some people didn't have deadly serious discussions of RF theory. If that's what you want, you should get your General license and operate on HF, they said. They lost that battle to keep ham radio firmly in the past. As it turned out, a lot of hams enjoyed being able to talk to people in other countries simply by accessing their local FM repeater. Those that didn't like it went elsewhere, and nobody missed them. 

 In short, it seems to me that you simply resent people enjoying themselves on the radio. I'd suggest that you move to amateur radio, but those attitudes have faded away in that service over the past decade. There are still a few sour hams shaking their fists at the clouds, snarling about Dumb People, and pretending the FCC would be outraged about it if they only knew. But they are dwindling rapidly. 

 GMRS is now seen as a tool to build communities on-air. That's the purpose it serves here. And I really doubt the FCC is bothered by that. 

- KAF6430 

[KAF6430]

On 9/25/2023 at 3:15 PM, WRYT685 said:

That's what Amateur Radio bands are for. 

 If that's the case, why does amateur radio have linked repeaters? Modes such as DMR routinely carry worldwide traffic over linked repeaters. The HF amateur bands are not the entirety of amateur radio. In terms of numbers, there are more hams on "short range" 2M/UHF using links on DMR, C4FM, APRS, etc. than there are hams on HF. A whole lot of hams are using an HT on 2M/UHF -- intended for short range -- to communicate with people all over the world. I certainly do. Anyone that would say "That's not what VHF is for!" would be laughed at. Nobody points out that repeaters weren't intended to be used in amateur radio when it was created in 1921. The "original intent" of amateur radio was people tapping on keys with Morse code. If we would have stuck with that, there wouldn't be much of an amateur service today. When amateur radio moved from CW to AM phone, there were those who invoked the "original intent" argument. They lost. And when AM phone moved to SSB, and now digital modes, there are always a few who say " That's not what was intended!". It's a poor argument, and one that continually loses. In every case, it's not the FCC saying, "We must remain in the past!". 

 Whatever the technology, people tend to find new uses for it. Once upon a time, the internet you are using now was "intended" for geeks to discuss IT matters. When a dime is minted, it isn't "intended" to be used as a screwdriver, but few would gasp in horror if it were used as one in a pinch. This idea that GMRS must be forever locked in the 1970's isn't supported by the FCC. They've added new capabilities, such as digital messaging, which weren't part of the "original intent". 

[RayP]

17 hours ago, KAF6430 said:

So... this horrible problem that you feel the need to complain about consists of two pairs out of eight being occupied by linked repeaters in your area. And that leaves you with 'only' six channels for your preferred 50W simplex activity. 

IOW, you have the exact same number of linked repeaters in your "general area" as we have here in the MSP/STP metro. Yet no one gets bent out of shape over that situation here. If they don't want to listen to linked traffic, they use the other six channels. Using a repeater is not "tying it up". Perhaps other people would consider your use of the other un-linked pairs to be "tying up" the frequency with "useless chatter" that has no relevance to their lives. 

 It really doesn't matter why GMRS was created. Many of the Services created by the FCC have taken off in different ways than the FCC originally envisioned. What matters to the FCC is that they are used in compliance with the regulations. So please don't imply that the FCC is backing you up in your crusade against "useless chatter". CB, for example, strictly forbade "skip" contacts since its creation (QSOs over 150 miles, specifically). Yet, in the last Part 97 overhaul, they eliminated that restriction. CB was originally conceived as a licensed service, yet that didn't matter to the FCC when they eliminated the need for a license. VHF marine used to require an examination and a marine operators permit. Yet, the FCC did away with that and reduced it to a Restricted Radiotelephone permit with no exam. When the FCC created GMRS, they didn't envision the FRS. Yet, they made sweeping changes to expand FRS use in traditionally GMRS space. Certainly, linked repeaters were never envisioned when the FCC created the Amateur service, nor packet or satcom. Instead, these new uses were accommodated. 

 There is nothing in the GMRS regulations that require conversations be erudite, sparkling, or serious. There are limitations on profanity, of course. But I've heard plenty of "family" conversations that would fit the category of "useless chatter". That doesn't bother me, or anyone else. Change the channel. You admit that only two pairs in your area contain this "useless chatter", so you have options.  

 It's not that dead air is "worrisome", as you put it. Not even sure where you came up with that strawman. As a licensed ham, I can recall curmudgeons bitterly complaining about Echolink and IRLP traffic on local repeaters when that began a decade ago. They employed the same arguments as you do: it's not what 2M FM was intended for, and some people didn't have deadly serious discussions of RF theory. If that's what you want, you should get your General license and operate on HF, they said. They lost that battle to keep ham radio firmly in the past. As it turned out, a lot of hams enjoyed being able to talk to people in other countries simply by accessing their local FM repeater. Those that didn't like it went elsewhere, and nobody missed them. 

 In short, it seems to me that you simply resent people enjoying themselves on the radio. I'd suggest that you move to amateur radio, but those attitudes have faded away in that service over the past decade. There are still a few sour hams shaking their fists at the clouds, snarling about Dumb People, and pretending the FCC would be outraged about it if they only knew. But they are dwindling rapidly. 

 GMRS is now seen as a tool to build communities on-air. That's the purpose it serves here. And I really doubt the FCC is bothered by that. 

- KAF6430 

Well, your reading comprehension seems to be as poor as your mathmatical skills.

"I am in a general area with two linked repeaters tied in to more.  Conversations entirely on the most distant one regularly tie up the two closer to me.  Another guy has put up a big repeater tied in to a big national network along with a couple of nodes and another guy still, felt it necessary to link his short range repeater into that network."

Maybe I am wrong, but I count six frequencies being polluted in one area with garbage from elsewhere.  A couple of new repeater (or "node") ops pop up in the area wanting to delight us with their ability to hook their device to the internet and all eight channels are spoken for during much of the day.

IF as you say, your devices are the only ones in your area, then maybe not so much harm.  Again, in GMRS we have ONLY eight 50W Simplex/Repeater Pairs which are practically the same thing.  If the idea that so many new repeater operators have that it would be such a great idea to link to this repeater or that network holds, then you can soon have a problem.  If you are a ham, why not spread your joy of linking on ham freqs, where repeater and simplex allocations number in literal dozens, rather than fewer than a dozen?  In my area, the problem is knocking loudly at our door in the here-and-now.

You seem only concerned with rules being followed, not so much  courtesy or consideration for other users of limited frequency space.  I understand that in San Francisco, the law allows people to relieve themselves on sidewalks.  I guess you would be fine with that.  Just because one "can" do something, doesn't always mean that they "should".  But don't let courtesy or consideration stop you from having fun and showing others how smart you think yourself to be.

 

[WRUU653]

[UncleYoda]

@RayP I'm with you on the problems.  And since I'm within range of most of the same ones, I know you aren't even telling them all of it.  I don't know if that short range repeater you refer to is in range for me.  But the short range one that is close to me is on a frequency that will have another separate repeater about 20 miles away this time next year.  I'm letting my membership in the linked system expire and will focus on open ones.  I won't bother trying to convince the detractors here and you should probably ignore them as well.  This site is dominated by smartelecks (never can figure out the right spelling of that word).

[H8SPVMT]

"Can't wait to see "some people" reply here.. You will know them when you see them."

 

That did pretty much sum it up, hehe!