How to attract more young people into the Amateur Radio Hobby

[SteveShannon]

Back to the original subject, I was just telling an unmet friend that one way I think we could attract more young people to ham radio would be to give away FRS or MURS radios accompanied by free lessons on radio rules and etiquette. That could lead to free lessons towards the technician test and maybe even a free or cheap dual band radio (A UV5R in every pot!)

[WRUE951]

44 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

 

That is what happened to me - I went online and had the audacity to ask questions about the test or electrical theory or something that I didnt understand, and it was quickly made clear to me that people asking such questions were not welcome in this exclusive club.  Not just once, but multiple times, in multiple places.  I see it here every day, and have even seen it a few times already in this thread.  HUNDREDS of my viewers have also commented on my videos that the exact same thing happened to them, so the impact of sad-hams cannot be denied.. 

you probably went into a forum asking those questions and they honestly could not answer them..   Why,,  because most HAMS 'now days' passed their test by memorizing answers and not learning the true theory of radio and electronics..  I see this all the time listening into the Nets.   Many times someone will ask a technical question and they immediately get sniped at or the topic quickly gets changed to taking Grandma out for ice cream..  It's simply 'their' defense against answering a question they can't and trying to be the smart boy.  I find the older generation of HAMs to be more helpful  

 

[SteveShannon]

14 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

you probably went into a forum asking those questions and they honestly could not answer them..   Why,,  because most HAMS 'now days' passed their test by memorizing answers and not learning the true theory of radio and electronics..  I see this all the time listening into the Nets.   Many times someone will ask a technical question and they immediately get sniped at or the topic quickly gets changed to taking Grandma out for ice cream..  It's simply 'their' defense against answer a question and trying to be the smart boy

I don’t know if it’s most, but certainly there are many who do simply memorize the answers, and that’s really too bad because understanding the why of the answers is far more interesting, in my opinion.  I have met a good friend, who was one of the first people I tested as a VE.  He got his Technician then and has gone on to get his General.

A couple times he said he just wants to know the answer and that he’s not interested in learning Ohm’s Law (usually in response to my offering a chalk-talk on Ohm’s Law), but now as he’s using an HF radio and trying to figure out power supplies he finds himself having to know it. I hope he’ll let me do a chalk-talk soon!

[WRUE951]

6 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

I don’t know if it’s most, but certainly there are many who do simply memorize the answers, and that’s really too bad because understanding the why of the answers is far more interesting, in my opinion.  I have met a good friend, who was one of the first people I tested as a VE.  He got his Technician then and has gone on to get his General.

A couple times he said he just wants to know the answer and that he’s not interested in learning Ohm’s Law (usually in response to my offering a chalk-talk on Ohm’s Law), but now as he’s using an HF radio and trying to figure out power supplies he finds himself having to know it. I hope he’ll let me do a chalk-talk soon!

to clarify, i think  most HAM's within the last 10-12 years.  I know quite a few HAM's and every one of them studied for their test via memorizing answers.  And most of them now have their General/Extra, whereas 8 years ago they didn't, because they wouldn't study code..  I have a close dentist friend whom is very heavy into HAM and he brags about getting his Extra by studying answers.    He certainly is no Wiz in the electronics field, couldn't answer the simplest question I.e. ohms law, but he is a nice guy and a good dentist.   

[back4more70]

For my testing, I read the Technician and General instruction books I had several times, then quizzed myself dozens of times to ensure I passed.  Some of us have trouble remembering formulas and voltages and frequency bands (oh my!).  So when someone complains that folks are memorizing answers, yeah some of us are, and then referring to the source material later when questions arise and more detailed explanations are needed.  Same way a lot of us got through college. I imagine.

[SteveShannon]

10 minutes ago, back4more70 said:

For my testing, I read the Technician and General instruction books I had several times, then quizzed myself dozens of times to ensure I passed.  Some of us have trouble remembering formulas and voltages and frequency bands (oh my!).  So when someone complains that folks are memorizing answers, yeah some of us are, and then referring to the source material later when questions arise and more detailed explanations are needed.  Same way a lot of us got through college. I imagine.

That’s okay. Some of the question and answer pairs must be memorized. There’s really no way around that. For other things, such as formulas, few people can derive formulas so they must be memorized also. 

 

[WRQC527]

This entire thread is probably driving both potential GMRS and potential hams away from radio. Why would they want to partake when a bunch of guys from both services bicker all the time?

[SteveShannon]

3 minutes ago, WRQC527 said:

This entire thread is probably driving both potential GMRS and potential hams away from radio. Why would they want to partake when a bunch of guys from both services bicker all the time?

I haven’t noticed too much bickering in this thread and I’m a guy from both services.

[DONE]

8 hours ago, Sshannon said:

I haven’t noticed too much bickering in this thread and I’m a guy from both services.

Yeah, I really didn't see too much of it either.  There are always going to be disagreements with everything.  Radios, antenna's, radio services, etc etc etc.

Some people are going to be polite when they disagree and be cordial about it and say police things about that disagreement.   Others will make wild comparisons bringing up wack jobs like Jim Jones.

 

But the underlying point to this is still the same.  Ham radio membership is in a slump.  And it's cyclic in reality.  GMRS right now is on a significant upswing, and I am seeing discussions of GMRS in the ham magazines even. 

People have a number of different reasons to get a radio license.  Be it ham, GMRS or both.  I will have been a ham for 30 years next April.  Got licensed in 94.  I have had a GMRS license for just a few years at this point.  But I am active with both services for different reasons. The biggest part of my involvement is building out infrastructure.  I currently have 5 different repeaters locally at this point and support a number of others.  The 5 are my equipment.  I talk from the house on a microwave link to the tower via an IP based radio console that currently is connected to 10 different radios and I will be adding more this weekend. This stuff ranges from HF radios to 900Mhz radios and everything in between.  I don't currently have any 220 radios (ham band).  And I don't have any gear operating in ham bands above 900, but that is subject to change as well.

Radio is what I do though. 

And while I never thought one way or another about the no code licenses, I did have issue with the ARRL pushing ARES really hard and getting people in the hobby that just wanted their 15 minutes.  One thing with some hams is they have some misguided idea that in times of an emergency that they alone will be humanity's last best hope of survival.  I did have issue with that.  And still do in truth.  But that didn't 'destroy' ham radio either and the cyclic rise of membership over that has waned.  Then it was the prepper community.  We still see that push on YouTube, but that fell off too.  GMRS is actually a better option for those folks in my opinion, as one license covers their entire family, and if a real SHTF situation arises, I don't know that the FCC is going to be running around giving people hell for operating on the ham bands since they are preparing for situations where the government is non-operational.  The EMCOMM (emergency communications) guys in ham radio have boxes and stuff they refer to as a 'go kit'  which is nothing more than a radio mounted in a Pelican case they can drag out in the field and operate from.  Prepper's have something similar called a 'go away kit' which consists of several semi-automatic firearms and thousands of rounds of ammunition to make undesirables 'go away' by whatever means necessary. 

 

But adding to the ranks of either radio service is going to be cyclic.  Even if we did some 'crying Indian' public service commercial and pushed the virtues of either service, it's only going to be so effective.  Ultimately, it will show some level of increased membership for a time, but in the end that will wane as well.

 

[WRXW945]

20 hours ago, Sshannon said:

Back to the original subject, I was just telling an unmet friend that one way I think we could attract more young people to ham radio would be to give away FRS or MURS radios accompanied by free lessons on radio rules and etiquette. That could lead to free lessons towards the technician test and maybe even a free or cheap dual band radio (A UV5R in every pot!)

I see my giant UV-5R pez dispenser idea is gaining traction.  I vote we put @OffRoaderX 's head on the top since he's responsible for more people getting in to radio than most.

[WRXB215]

7 minutes ago, WRXW945 said:

I see my giant UV-5R pez dispenser idea is gaining traction.  I vote we put @OffRoaderX 's head on the top since he's responsible for more people getting in to radio than most.

@WRXW945 As soon as my reactions get replenished I'm going to like that one. 

[SteveShannon]

15 minutes ago, WRXW945 said:

I see my giant UV-5R pez dispenser idea is gaining traction.  I vote we put @OffRoaderX 's head on the top since he's responsible for more people getting in to radio than most.

 

 

 

Affiliate link below…

I agree that his videos probably have been responsible for encouraging young people of all ages to pick up a radio and try it.  And even though he’s not one to exactly encourage people to take up ham radio, his videos make people believe they can learn radio.  Whether he knows it or not, his videos (and others) led me to finally study for my ham radio license after 55 years of not getting around to it.

 

[WRXB215]

BTW, I'm studying for my ham license. I'm looking forward to talking to people like @Sshannon and @Lscott and other "happy" hams and if the "sad" ones don't like it they can kiss my fat a.. I'm not going to let the "sad hams" keep me from getting involved and enjoying amateur radio. @OffRoaderX I encourage you to do the same. Don't let the sad ones ruin it for you or anyone else.

[SteveShannon]

6 minutes ago, WRXB215 said:

BTW, I'm studying for my ham license. I'm looking forward to talking to people like @Sshannon and @Lscott and other "happy" hams and if the "sad" ones don't like it they can kiss my fat a.. I'm not going to let the "sad hams" keep me from getting involved and enjoying amateur radio. @OffRoaderX I encourage you to do the same. Don't let the sad ones ruin it for you or anyone else.

I don’t know how you’re studying, but I really enjoyed using HamStudy.  The website is free and there’s a cheap app you can get for your phone.  It’s like flash cards with explanations and links so you can dig deeper.

[WRXB215]

@Sshannon I'm using more than one resource but HamStudy is my favorite. I really like the explanations. They help to actually learn the material and not just memorize the answers. When I need more info I often just Google it and read one or more articles on the subject until I get my head around it. And since I have technical writing experience I also have a tendency to write it out in my own words. That really helps me retain the information.

[WRUE951]

27 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

 

It's obvious he is not 'HAM'S' best friend,, 'Sad' that he probably got soured by a wanna be Ham.. In any case, i totally agree with your statement.. There is no doubt he, by way of his videos, has encouraged more people into the radio hobby than anyone else here..  

 

Affiliate link below…

I agree that his videos probably have been responsible for encouraging young people of all ages to pick up a radio and try it.  And even though he’s not one to exactly encourage people to take up ham radio, his videos make people believe they can learn radio.  Whether he knows it or not, his videos (and others) led me to finally study for my ham radio license after 55 years of not getting around to it.

 

 

[nokones]

22 hours ago, Sshannon said:

Kenny,

Do you believe that some level of training is necessary before allowing a person to use a radio on the amateur bands? If so, how do we verify that training?

I notice that you are not a ham radio operator. Have you considered getting licensed?  Is the test the reason you haven’t?

 

The short answer is I have considered and tried twice and I can't get pass the electrical stuff. The test does absolutely nothing to verify if I would be a good HAM operator or not.

I've looked into attending in-person classes with various Club's and all they want to do is refer me to on-line sample tests, they no longer have in-person classes. I had a difficult time trying to remember the correct answers or if "All or None of the Above" was the correct answer or not, especially on the electrical stuff.

I remember when there were Community College classes for learning amateur radio and they no longer exist. I also remember there used to be a lot of ham/radio hobby businesses and they no longer exist. Some do still exist but only with limited hours a day for only a couple of days a week. Why is it this way now, I wonder.

I wasn't impressed by the various clubs on their willingness to help. A matter of fact, several didn't even return my telephone calls. They didn't leave me a good impression on a group that I wanted to be part of or want communicate with. I moved on.

Also, I considered taking the test for a third time on-line with a certified test person and the hoops that was required to jump through to take an on-line test was more than I wanted to endure. 

Something is telling me this may not be not be worth my while any longer and I shouldn't waste my time on. Time is precious and there are more radio paths to take with less effort in being compliant with the rules set.

I've had a GMRS license since the mid-90s when my license had a mobile license callsign and I was restricted to one repeater channel pair and 462.675 MHz was for emergency use. I have seen the growth of GMRS take off in the last couple of years and I think it is great especially with a couple of the Club's I am involved with. I just don't see things like such happening in the HAM radio world especially with the social aspect and the willingness to help and welcome others to the hobby. This is where they get a "F" in.

I am one of the Ambassadors for one of my Repeater Club's. My job is to not only welcome new members to the Club but help them get started and make sure they understand the technical side insofar to ensure their radios are programmed correctly with the Club's repeaters. It's a fun job. As an Ambassador we are a Club resource for members to learn radio and also we learn more still along with the new members. It's great even at my age.

I would hope that exists on the HAM side as well. I just never saw it or experience that effort.

[SteveShannon]

@nokones

Although it wouldn’t be a great substitute for in-person tutoring, I would be happy to try and answer any of your questions about the electrical questions.  I would like to do that in a separate thread so others could chime in with their questions and explanations. Do you think that would be helpful?

[BoxCar]

23 minutes ago, nokones said:

The short answer is I have considered and tried twice and I can't get pass the electrical stuff. The test does absolutely nothing to verify if I would be a good HAM operator or not...

I remember when there were Community College classes for learning amateur radio and they no longer exist. I also remember there used to be a lot of ham/radio hobby businesses and they no longer exist. Some do still exist but only with limited hours a day for only a couple of days a week. Why is it this way now, I wonder.

I would hope that exists on the HAM side as well. I just never saw it or experience that effort.

As you state you have the most problem with the electronics questions in the ham tests have you considered taking an electronics course at your local community college? An electronics course would teach you about AC and DC current, resistance, inductance and capacitance and how they affect both voltage and current. The course would also teach Ohm's Law and how to calculate resistance, voltage or current flow through a circuit or component. You would learn about reactance and its effect on AC circuits, how transformers work along with basic digital circuits and digital logic.

Three basic formulas are needed for the Technician test, Ohm's Law (E=IR), power (P=IE or P=I squared R) and wavelength (L=V/F) or velocity divided by frequency. Other than memorizing the electronic symbols for a transistor, diode, transformer, resistor, and capacitor, that's pretty much it on the electronics side.

[KBSherwood]

As someone somewhat young by this hobby's standards (35) with an elementary school aged kid who can do a better radio check (callsign included) than many others I've heard over the air, I think I can talk a bit about this topic:

I send emails via a computer, not letters written on a typewriter. - what does that have to do with anything? Well part of the issue is that "radio" doesn't offer anything different than cell phones, voip, instant message, hell even the POTS network, does. Just like I will likely never bang out a physical letter on a typewriter (unless we experience "the end of the world as we know it currently") again, there is very little need for most younger people to spend the time and money to get into GMRS/HAM/RF... So given there isn't a need there will have to be some other sort of "hook" to get people to pay attention. How do you get people to give up their time and focus on something in the era of the "attention economy"? Make it interesting and worth the time investment. 

But... GMRS isn't really supposed to be interesting... True, I get it. Without repeaters and good line of sight you'll probably hear... nothing. I know most everyone here "gets it" that GMRS is a bring your own contacts type service, so just sitting around and waiting for someone to speak up/talk to isn't an option for most (especially new) users. So in my opinion we have to go to them but I don't mean physically. GAME-IFICATION. 1. Something similar to geocaching or a scavenger hunt where the radio user has to go find the source of a signal, has to find a log book of others who have done the same hunt or gets to find one of those "take a trinket/leave a trinket" type bounties. Multiple repeater owners/users can provide different clues, etc. 2. A passport or some sort of competition to see how many repeaters you can hit. For example there may be a west coast passport that will have repeaters from Bellingham WA down to San diego CA and as people are out and about/traveling they see how many they can mark off. 3. "game shows" such as a trivia night/jeopardy/family feud or some other voice based game where there is a set time and any participants can listen in/contribute if they choose. 

IMO that's one piece of the puzzle, but there are who other segments of young people that are "low hanging" fruit to target, those are the "nu age hippies/modern homesteading" crowd. Just about everyone I know in the 30-40yr old age range is tired of the rat race, tired of consumerism, pollution, plastic and overcrowding and wants to get back to a more simple life of both growing their own produce, raising their own poultry but also having access to amazon and heading to the whiskey bar on saturdays. Maybe it's just here in the PNW, but we really, really value our outdoor environment and every single person I know hikes, many times in more remote areas where not all cell carriers have adequate reception. I have never once seen anyone carrying a GMRS radio on the trails. Cyclists, dirtbikers, disc golfers, metal detectorists, there are so many other hobbies that can be complemented with radios, there needs to be some two-way outreach from folks on the radio side of the aisle but also folks already involved in those activities getting into radio so they can take the ideas/enthusiasm back to their respective peer groups. 

"Preppers/Survivalists" - this one should go without saying but there is a segment of the population primed and ready to get into radio if they only knew about GMRS, and that's those of us who want to be more independent/self sufficient, if covid has thought my age cohort anything its "you cant rely on <insert grocery store> to have XYZ on a seconds notice forever." I know plenty of "kids" who got caught off-guard by covid lockdowns and only had ketchup and ramen in their apartments. I know A LOT more people who are keeping deep pantries, who are making sure to have extra bags of dog food on hand just in case, etc. There are already some GMRS evangelists in most prepper circles, but more knowledgeable folks helping to guide the newbies AND catch them before they become disaffected that their FRS radios only went .5miles and throw them in a box in the garage. Take a look on the prepper subreddit.

Finally... politics and radio preachers... I get it, everyone has their own reasons for getting into radios, but I had to drive a total of about 8 hours earlier this week and 80% of what I heard while scanning/listening was some old as dirt sounding fire and brimstone preacher, some foul mouthed "drivers" (truckers) and some racists having a conversation (who the hell knows why, I came in midstream) about whether "Barry White was one of the good ones" if you can read between the lines there. All of those conversations I listened in on were off-putting for one or more reasons, and if that's all someone thinks of when thinking GMRS its only going to appeal to folks already in those mindsets.

I don't know exactly what the alternative looks like, but maybe its a "people of color radio users net" or an "LGBT friendly radio net" or even trying to arrange nets for sporting events, TV/streaming show releases, etc. At the end of the day "content is king" and the attention economy is what it is, if there is some reason for people to pay attention to and thusly get involved with GMRS, they will. A "build it and they will come" type situation. 

At the end of the day I think its outreach, outreach outreach with some excitement and a reason join in and take part.

 

[bd348]

I blame surface mount electronics and cheap products from over seas.  (Halfway joking, here.)

Used to be that electronics were these neat parts with through-hole leads which you would wire up with solder or wire wrap and you got a cool product as a result.  Like a crystal diode radio or a light sensor.  Starting around age 8-10 with the old Radio Shack electronics kits with spring connectors.  Now it's tiny black specks of plastic melted onto a PC board, and there is probably a better $20 product already available on the shelf.

Now days, fortunately, there are Arduino or R-Pi with soldered or wire wrap I/O, so there is still some hope.  And it gets programming into the mix too.

(I also find it hard to interest people in learning manual transmission these days.  Sigh.)

[SteveShannon]

I see eager high schoolers and college students designing and building surface mount altimeters with gps and gyroscopes that track the location and control the recovery of high power rockets. They have adjusted just fine. That’s not holding them back.

[axorlov]

SMD components are fine. I used to be able to solder them without any aids, just with my sharp eye and a steady hand. Basically, the same things and skills you use on ladies to get a score. But now, in my advancing age, I need a good loupe or microscope, and have to rest my elbow on a sturdy surface. Works for me for now, both with PCBs and ladies. 

Surface mounts are not what is holding the youth to join. If anything is holding them.

[WRQI583]

On 10/10/2023 at 11:13 AM, OffRoaderX said:

I am actually thankful because when the sad-hams turned me off from ham I found GMRS and realized that I dont want/need a "hobby", I just needed a better way to communicate on the trail - and GMRS does that perfectly for me. 

I actually wrote a piece on my QRZ for Hams who visit my page and wonder why I have a GMRS license. I have encountered a few Hams who dont think one way or the other about having a Ham license and GMRS. A few I've encountered have both licenses. Then there are the Hams that treat Ham Radio like a "brotherhood" or an "exclusive club" and if they find out you also have a GMRS license, you are then automatically hated and put on an unofficial black list because you crossed over to the dark side, and according to them, you cant do that.

Basically what I wrote was how Ham Radio is a hobby, GMRS is a means of communication. It is like people and cars. You have some who use cars as a means of getting places, like a person using GMRS just communicating. Then you have people who go to school for automotive, they work in a garage, they restore old cars and make a hobby or career out of doing things with cars, like a person using Ham Radio doing contesting and working on radios. Some people in this world just need a means of communication and dont care about working on radios and doing contesting. Before anyone gets into radio, they need to ask themselves what they want out of radio, not what someone tells them is best because the radio service needs new members.

[nokones]

23 hours ago, Sshannon said:

@nokones

Although it wouldn’t be a great substitute for in-person tutoring, I would be happy to try and answer any of your questions about the electrical questions.  I would like to do that in a separate thread so others could chime in with their questions and explanations. Do you think that would be helpful?

Thanks Steve, that is very thoughtful of you to offer but thanks.  Given my track record of getting pass the electrical questions section on the test, it would be best for me to pass on the offer.  I don't have the education on any math beyond basic arithmetic, (i.e. fractions, decimal, multiplication, division, adding, and subtracting) or anything that adds letters ("X" & "Y" or any other math letters) to the equation.  Word problems were ok and I know my limitations very well. 

Its a mental thing for me because I just don't see the greater need today to afford a humongous amount of my time in learning something that I more than likely will never have a need to have or use just to communicate on 2M, and 33 & 70 CMs bands.

I know that knowledge would be very beneficial for me so I can get the full benefits of using my Antenna and Spectrum Analyzer Instruments but what I do know and for what I use those instruments for I get by very well and I do meet my needs today with my limited knowledge.  At least I can impress my non-radio/technical friends, and sometimes myself.  I do learn a couple things here and there along the way as I play with them with my radios and that is the fun part, and I don't mind affording my time with learning stuff like that.

Every time, when I come across the electrical questions on the test, its such a big distraction for me and effects my concentration and I get this mental block where I can't remember the answers that I studied for, prior to the real test.  Its my problem to deal with because I think its not necessary to have that knowledge for what my intentions are for having an Amateur Radio Service License and that is why I have moved on.

The biggest reason why I want to get my Amateur Radio Service License is because I have a strong desire to dabble in the three aforementioned bands for some reason and also have an excuse to buy the appropriate XTL5000 mobile radios, or the APX series radios, to have in my Truck along with my existing UHF XTL5000 radio that I use for my licensed Part 90 freqs and GMRS when I travel to/from races throughout the US as something to tinker with to occupy my driving time.

Maybe someday the HF stuff will interest me, today it does not, and then maybe I would be more motivated in trying to learn the electrical stuff.

Thanks again in your willingness to help.