FCC Part 95

[Sshannon]

5 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

That was quite the read. A true history lesson there. Thanks for the post. 

There’s a lot to unpack isn’t there?

[Sshannon]

Did you read paragraph where they mentioned rejecting comments suggesting TDMA digital modes for GMRS?  It’s pretty clear. 

[WRUU653]

8 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

Did you read paragraph where they mentioned rejecting comments suggesting TDMA digital modes for GMRS?  It’s pretty clear. 

I did read that and yes they seem to have already considered and come to a consensus. I found it insightful on decisions made and not just regarding the bubble pack debacle. 

[Lscott]

20 hours ago, Sshannon said:

Did you read paragraph where they mentioned rejecting comments suggesting TDMA digital modes for GMRS?  It’s pretty clear. 

There is a FDMA version of DMR, called Tier-1, used the EU’s license free band of 446.0 to 446.2 MHz.
 
This link is for the ETSI document for dPMR specifications.

http://dmr446.hamstation.eu/docs/ETSI-TS-102-490.pdf

The DMR Tier-1 specifications are similar but use a 12.5KHz channel.

Most of what we use here is Tier-2, conventional, or Tier-3, trunked.

[Lscott]

Trying to chase down the correct technical documents is a bit challenging.  

Also many of the EU license free radios, DMR PMR446, sold don’t really use the Tier-1 FDMA standard, as required. They use the TDMA Tier-2 since it results in better battery pack life. 
 
Oh, one other thing with DMR, there is theoretically a range limit due to the TDMA nature of the mode. It’s covered in the technical documentation. That’s an interesting topic all on its own.

[WRYS709]

On 1/26/2024 at 7:06 PM, WSAE510 said:

Thank you for your help

 

 

It's a draft document; hardly the basis of support for any point of view.

[Adamdaj]

On 1/24/2024 at 6:26 PM, Sshannon said:

I believe there is not a 5 watt regulatory limit on handheld portable GMRS stations on either the 462 main channels or 467 MHz main channels.  
 

Yep, I tend to agree with Sshannon on the power limit on Handhelds. There are few GMRS FCC Part 95 E portable that have been tested and put out 6 to 8 watts, but I don't remember the manufacture. I know that it's not Motorola or Midland. It was one of cheap Chinese radios. Some of those radios have good reviews, but overall nothing beats the Big guys, Icom, Kenwood or Motorola.

[WRQI583]

I have heard people mix this one up.............. Only repeaters are allowed 50 watt max. The way the rules read from what I found is the following:

Mobile - 50 watt max
Repeater - 50 watt max
Base to Mobile - 50 watt max
Base to Base (fixed station) - 15 watt max

And as for portables, I dont know too many that actually exceed 5 watts on UHF, even if they claim they do. My Ailunce radios claim 8 watts on high on UHF and they actually only do 4 watts. Besides, no matter what portable you are using, unless you are a Ham operator doing OTA activations, do you really want more than 5 watts blowing off in your face through a rubber duck antenna that is almost never tuned correctly? I have seen some of these cheap FRS walkie talkies get some really good distance just on their small amount of power they run. 

I dont understand why you cant use an amplifier? As long as it does not exceed the above power limits. Am I correct? If I ran a 5 watt radio and wanted to get another 20-40 watts out, there shouldnt be an issue. Take into account the loss in the coax , loss in your connectors, and your antenna gain maybe not being what it says, you probably might not be emitting more than 40 watts if you started out with 45 or 50. At the end of the day, if you think blowing out more than 50 watts is going to help you, you might just be a CB'er or a Ham Operator who lives in HF. Once you hit the UHF bands, it is not about power output anymore but all about your coax, antenna, and height of your antenna. 5 watts at the right height with the right antenna can go a long way. Ask anyone who runs a repeater on less than 10 watts that has a 50 mile coverage.

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, WRQI583 said:

I dont understand why you cant use an amplifier? A

As far as I know nobody makes an amplifier that's Part 95E certified. There are plenty of Part 90 stuff that could work.

[Sshannon]

1 hour ago, WRQI583 said:

I dont understand why you cant use an amplifier? As long as it does not exceed the above power limits. Am I correct? If I ran a 5 watt radio and wanted to get another 20-40 watts out, there shouldnt be an issue. Take into account the loss in the coax , loss in your connectors, and your antenna gain maybe not being what it says, you probably might not be emitting more than 40 watts if you started out with 45 or 50. At the end of the day, if you think blowing out more than 50 watts is going to help you, you might just be a CB'er or a Ham Operator who lives in HF. Once you hit the UHF bands, it is not about power output anymore but all about your coax, antenna, and height of your antenna. 5 watts at the right height with the right antenna can go a long way. Ask anyone who runs a repeater on less than 10 watts that has a 50 mile coverage.

I don’t believe amplifiers are prohibited for GMRS, but good luck finding one that’s part 95e certified.  

[WRQI583]

2 hours ago, Sshannon said:

I don’t believe amplifiers are prohibited for GMRS, but good luck finding one that’s part 95e certified.  

 

2 hours ago, Lscott said:

As far as I know nobody makes an amplifier that's Part 95E certified. There are plenty of Part 90 stuff that could work.

yep, good point from the both of you, I didn't think about that. 

[WRXB215]

Here's one that might work for you.

[Lscott]

20 hours ago, WRXB215 said:

Here's one that might work for you.

I have the TDMA capable version of that amp. If you look at the FCC ID in the photo and check it out, the amp is only certified for Part 90! Oops.

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/tcb/reports/Tcb731GrantForm.cfm?mode=COPY&RequestTimeout=500&tcb_code=&application_id=6kbS5AHSSJk92fpjsS8zBw%3D%3D&fcc_id=2AGND-AMP-U

 

[Adamdaj]

On 1/26/2024 at 7:58 PM, wrci350 said:

The only place that appears in Part 95 E is where it talks about data transmissions.  Otherwise GMRS HTs may have detachable antennas, even if they can transmit on 8-14.

I have to admit that I was wrong about antenna requirements for GMRS. According to my knowledge, the BTECH GMRS PRO was supposed to have a permanent antenna, due its data capability. Maybe I'm still wrong and should get out the Hobby Amateur Radio and GMRS if I seem to be wrong all the time.

73 to All!

Adam K3JCP / WQAI363

[WRYZ926]

2 hours ago, Adamdaj said:

I have to admit that I was wrong about antenna requirements for GMRS. According to my knowledge, the BTECH GMRS PRO was supposed to have a permanent antenna, due its data capability. Maybe I'm still wrong and should get out the Hobby Amateur Radio and GMRS if I seem to be wrong all the time.

73 to All!

Adam K3JCP / WQAI363

I think a lot of people were under the impression that Part 95E hand held radios were suppose to have permanently attached antennas. Some radios have the antennas glued in place while others do not. It's one of those things that slipped by.

[WRUU653]

2 hours ago, Adamdaj said:

the BTECH GMRS PRO was supposed to have a permanent antenna, due its data capability

You are not wrong Adam. The data capable GMRS radios are suppose to have fixed antennas. But as @WRYZ926 states some got the glue treatment and some did not. 

[WRXB215]

14 hours ago, Adamdaj said:

Maybe I'm still wrong and should get out the Hobby Amateur Radio and GMRS if I seem to be wrong all the time.

Don't leave the hobby. Just do like the rest of us; keep learning and enjoying it. 

73!

[Lscott]

15 hours ago, Adamdaj said:

I have to admit that I was wrong about antenna requirements for GMRS. According to my knowledge, the BTECH GMRS PRO was supposed to have a permanent antenna, due its data capability. Maybe I'm still wrong and should get out the Hobby Amateur Radio and GMRS if I seem to be wrong all the time.

73 to All!

Adam K3JCP / WQAI363

Somebody once said

" I might not be right, but I'm never wrong."

Hang in there.

[Sshannon]

15 hours ago, Adamdaj said:

Maybe I'm still wrong and should get out the Hobby Amateur Radio and GMRS if I seem to be wrong all the time.

Don’t get out.  The only people who are never wrong are those who never try.

[WRYZ926]

Definitely do not give up!

I have been fighting an RFI issue between my HF radio and my TYT dual band for days now. I did all kinds of things to chase down the RFI issues and even had several old timers stumped on how to correct things. I won't lie, I definitely was very frustrated the entire time of trouble shooting. I finally figured out the issue this morning after several days.

The issue is with my TYT dual band radio. It picks up interference from my HF radio when both of them are transmitting. I chased down all the possible problems with cables and antennas. I first thought I had my GP9 antenna and my dipole antenna too close. But I switched my TYT radio to a different antenna that is 50 + feet away from the dipole and still had RFI.

I then hooked my Wouxun KG100G to the GP9 and there was absolutely no RFI issues at all.

Sorry for being long winded. My point is that we all make mistakes. The main thing is that you learn from your mistakes. Just learn to ignore people and go about your business. Don't get aggravated and die up something that you enjoy.

[WRQC527]

I used to think I was never wrong. It turns out I was wrong once. It's when I thought I was wrong, but I wasn't. 

~Anonymous 

[Adamdaj]

8 hours ago, Sshannon said:

Don’t get out.  The only people who are never wrong are those who never try.

Thank you! 

[Adamdaj]

4 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

Definitely of not give up!

I have been fighting an RFI issue between my HF radio and my TYT dual band for days now. I did all kinds of things to chase down the RFI issues and even had severe old timers stumped on how to correct things. I won't lie, I definitely was very frustrated the entire time of trouble shooting. I finally figured out the issue this morning after several days.

The issue is with my TYT dual band radio. It picks up interference from my HF radio when both of them are transmitting. I chased down all the possible problems with cables and antennas. I first thought I had my GP9 antenna and my dipole antenna too close. But I switched my TYT radio to a different antenna that is 50 + feet away from the dipole and still had RFI.

I then hooked my Wouxun KG100G to the GP9 and there was absolutely no RFI issues at all.

Sorry for being long winded. My point is that we all make mistakes. The main thing is that you learn from your mistakes. Just learn to ignore people and go about your business. Don't get aggravated and die up something that you enjoy.

When I think of GP9, I'm thinking of General Motors EMD GP9 4 axile locomotive, I'm not thinking about radios. Of course, if Amateur Radio Clubs had Field Day trackside, a locomotive could power several stations without a problem. Of course, you want to stay away from overhead catenary, especially when setting up antennas.

[WRYZ926]

37 minutes ago, Adamdaj said:

When I think of GP9, I'm thinking of General Motors EMD GP9 4 axile locomotive, I'm not thinking about radios. Of course, if Amateur Radio Clubs had Field Day trackside, a locomotive could power several stations without a problem. Of course, you want to stay away from overhead catenary, especially when setting up antennas.

I'm familiar with the EMD GP9 locomotives. One unit I was assigned to while in the Army was a railroad unit.

The Comet GP9 antenna is a 2m/70cm antenna that is about 18 foot long with a 9Db gain. It also happens to work well for GMRS channels too.

[Adamdaj]

1 hour ago, WRYZ926 said:

I'm familiar with the EMD GP9 locomotives. One unit I was assigned to while in the Army was a railroad unit.

The Comet GP9 antenna is a 2m/70cm antenna that is about 18 foot long with a 9Db gain. It also happens to work well for GMRS channels too.

Yep, I figured when you were referring GP9 as a Dual Band Antenna. I have Dimond X50 on top of my garage and it does fine on GMRS, but I wouldn't trust the SWR on VHF outside of the 2-meter band. Of course, besides the 5 license channels on MURS, I wouldn't have a reason to transmit on it. 

Have a Great Day !