Land Mobile Radio

[VETCOMMS]

Just curious if anyone can direct me to resources about LMR.  I'm curious about cost of licensing as well as how others have gotten their LMR license, other than paying out the $$$ to the FCC.

[VETCOMMS]

Thanks for the edumentation.  How do I learn all these fancy P25 programming tricks?  Is there a P25 guru that can train or just use my brain and click around and learn from my mistakes,  which I am good at making. 

[kidphc]

Thanks for the edumentation.  How do I learn all these fancy P25 programming tricks?  Is there a P25 guru that can train or just use my brain and click around and learn from my mistakes,  which I am good at making. 

There are some videos on youtube. Which are really good at teaching things like programming p25 in astro25.

You are going to want to narrow down your radio choices first. Each software is different and has different quirks.

Generally, they program similarly to any other radio. Just with different terms for the same thing.

Unfortunately some software like Harris rpm. There aren't videos, they kinda expect you to already know or attend harris training. Then it's a matter of playing with the software and figuring it out. For Kenwood, you have Lscott

I for the most part think the Motorola software is one of the easiest, since it's straight forward, well for me at least. F harris.. nac code says its hex in software , but it isn't actually using hex its decimal...lol

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[gortex2]

So some clarification on ADP on MSI gear. Yes some MSI gear came with software ADP, but not all of them. It was a flash code option. I have XTL2500's for SAR that have Hardware ADP/AES as once you add any other encryption you need to be hardware. When the APX series came out ADP was standard and free. That has changed to a option but still can be had. Regardless of secure type (ADP, AES, DES, DES-XL, DES-OFB) if its set for hardware with a MACE board you will need a key loader of some sort to load keys. 

Also when you apply for your license you will need to determine your modulation. You can have multiple on the channel but make sure they add it to the license while applying. Adding DMR/P25 to your analog emission is what a lot do. If you know your never doing DMR then dont worry about it but again its part of your license. 

I'll add DMR is a more economical digital standard for B&I stuff where as P25 is the standard in Public Safety. The reason really boils down to cost. Yes you can buy used LMR gear but if your looking at new stuff a XPR is a 1/4 of an APX. 

Also if your only looking for a few portables, repeater and maybe a few mobiles talk to you local LMR dealers. Alot run a SMR system (most likely DMR) and you can rent airtime and not worry about repeater sites, maintenance etc required with your own stuff. And it allows you to dabble with a service until you decide what you want to do. When I was in the shop days I think it was $15.00 a month per radio and got alot of folks on the air over night per say. 

Definately do research if this is for a business use. Sometimes a basic simplex system is all you really do need..

[Wrjk243]

4 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

Incorrect.  The Motorolas can do "ADP" encryption which does not require a key-loader.. ADP is not as strong as AES256 (which does require a key-loader), but it is MORE than good-enough for anyone not transmitting state-secrets or plotting another unplanned group-tour of The Capitol.

is ADP standard on the xts 5000 or is it a separate board like the board required for AES 256 ?

[gortex2]

Nothing is standard. It can have software ADP depending on the flash code of the radio. Q667 was the Software ADP option. You really need to run the flash code from the radio you are looking at to determine which options it has. I have multiple XTS portables that have no secure in the flash code. 

[VETCOMMS]

1 hour ago, gortex2 said:

Nothing is standard. It can have software ADP depending on the flash code of the radio. Q667 was the Software ADP option. You really need to run the flash code from the radio you are looking at to determine which options it has. I have multiple XTS portables that have no secure in the flash code. 

So naturally I looked at Kemp as well as ebay which begs the question,  if buying an XTL 5000 or 2500 or whatever model from ebay how would I know the flashcode to determine if it does ADP encryption or if it does p25 or to determine frequency range?  Some sellers will know and with some it's a gamble?

[kidphc]

Usually, the seller has the feature sets or options that the radio has. Sometimes they will have a screen capture of what the programming software read or you can inquire to the seller about said information.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[OffRoaderX]

5 hours ago, VETCOMMS said:

naturally I looked at Kemp as well as ebay which begs the question, if buying an XTL 5000 or 2500 or whatever model from ebay how would I know the flashcode to determine if it does ADP encryption or if it does p25 or to determine frequency range

If you buy from Kemp, or any reputable dealer, you tell them what you want and they will sell it to you OR, they'll tell you what they have on-hand .. if you buy from ebay, beware, its a den of thieves and liars.

[Lscott]

As @kidphc mentioned this is an example of what a "read" of a radio can show you.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/290-nx-1300duk5/?context=new

 

[WRXB215]

10 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

if you buy from ebay, beware, its a den of thieves and liars.

There are some good sellers on eBay but yes you definitely have to beware. eBay tends to be a magnet for shady characters.

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, WRXB215 said:

There are some good sellers on eBay but yes you definitely have to beware. eBay tends to be a magnet for shady characters.

I’ve ran into a few. Fortunately just a small number. Most are paranoid about getting ANY negative feedback. I’ve gotten refunds from sellers that said in their ads “NO RETURNS”. In general my experience has been pretty good.

[tweiss3]

The coordination thing is pretty big. The same Line A & Line C that cause issues with GMRS cause more issues with business band licensing. This should be discussed with the coordinator. If you have to coordinate with Canada, that can take months to clear, and if there is a conflict, you pay for coordination again.

If you want to go down this path, I would recommend reading all of eCFR Part 90 top to bottom, then read it again in 2 days after you had time to process it the first time. 

The number one thing you will hear from your consultants is to not buy the equipment BEFORE you get licensed, and I agree with that.

Lastly, there are fees you pay to the coordinator, then there are fees paid to the FCC. If I remember correctly, initial filing was $205, and a major modification is $105. Also don't be surprised if your license pops up with conditions of approval noted.

It's not necessarily hard, but time consuming, and the actual application on the FCC website is not well designed.

[nokones]

And read it again, many times and over time even after you get your station authorization.

You don't need to concern yourself with Part 90.20 because you're not eligible for any Part 90.20 freqs. Just focus on Part 95.35 and on.

[nokones]

On 4/20/2024 at 6:55 PM, nokones said:

Yes, there are some analog only units. I happen to have one, a remote mid-power unit with the "S" band range. I think I paid around $125.00 for it but I knew what I am getting and for that price it was not a bad price and it is just one of my many spares.

About a month or so maybe two months ago, there were several 450-520 MHz, "S" models, on eBay that only had two features flashed, conventional and one other and it wasn't the Q806 code for digital modulation.

At that time, there a ton of them for sale at a cheap price for the transceiver only on eBay.

I finally got a chance to look up the two feature sets on my XTL4999.9 radio since I was doing my monthly updates on all my radios and the two features that are flashed on this radio are G241 (Analog Only Operation) and G51 (Smartzone Systems Operation).  Interesting that whoever ordered this radio with the intention of using it on a Trunk system wouldn't order it with the Q806 Digital Operation feature.  At least they could use that feature for some privacy on a simplex channel if the radio was used in a Law Enforcement environment.  So far its still one of my many backup radios.

[gortex2]

33 minutes ago, nokones said:

 the two features that are flashed on this radio are G241 (Analog Only Operation) and G51 (Smartzone Systems Operation).  Interesting that whoever ordered this radio with the intention of using it on a Trunk system wouldn't order it with the Q806 Digital Operation feature

Not really surprising at all. Most of the Trunk Systems where analog (still some are) in the early days. There are alot of XTL and XTS that were ordered that way. Also alot of the "rebanded" radios (800mhz) had wierd feature sets and none included digital. Remember when those radios came out digital was an option. We have some SAR radios like this becuse we couldn't justify digital just to have and we only bought 2 radios....imagine an agency buying hundredds. That could add up fast. 

 

[tweiss3]

Yea, I know of one analog smart net system still being used today. 

Anyways, if you have eligibility 90.35 (a), then it's only time & money at that point. 

[VETCOMMS]

So I'm curious about the encryption part of this, specifially AES256.  If using encryption on HTs would the repeater need to be encryption capable or does the encryption simply pass through the repeater so any DMR repeater would work, or does the repeater need to be AES256 capable?  Does the encryption happen on the transmitting and receiving radios only?

[gortex2]

Encryption normally only is done on the subscriber end, or console not the repeater in the P25 world. I would assumei ts the same for DMR but I dont play with it nor have any radios that work on DMR.