Where to place a repeater

[WSCF738]

I posted something similar to this under "Unable to test a repeater" but nobody responded to I'm going to try here.

"I've ordered 2 1000G Plus and want to connect them as a repeater, I'm getting the Icom IASDUP 1037 Duplexer, and the TRAM 1486 antenna with M&P cable. I'm thinking about putting it in my "Car Port" which has a 14' roof and I was going to raise the antenna another 10'. So that would give me 25' in height. I'm at the top of a hill and I believe 25' would be above any structure. The carport is 200' from my house so I shouldn't get much interference. If that doesn't work I'll move it to my house, which I don't want to do."

I'm thinking about purchasing 2 Locking Metal Cabinets to help with isolating any cross talk between the 1000G's. I'll drill holes in opposite ends of both cabinets and put a fan in both of them. The cabinets will be out of the weather because the back wall of the cabinet is solid metal. If I bolt the cabinets to the wall of the carport (the carport is all metal and has a grounding steak) that should also help with any interference. I'm thinking of putting the duplexer in the cabinet with the Transmit radio."

The only thing that would keep me from installing the repeater in the carport as it does get HOT here. I live outside of Austin, TX there have been days where the temperate gets to 105+. Mostly averages of just about 30-40 days above 100. Being in the shade of the carport and with the fans I'm assuming the heat should not be a problem.

That is why I'm seeking suggetions/comments/ideas.

Any response will be appreciated.

Thanks

alfie

[warthog74]

If you are planning on that repeater to cover more than 2 - 5 miles you’ll want to get the antenna up at least 50ft. Otherwise you may be disappointed with its lack of coverage area. You said you’re on a hill. Are you higher than most everything around you? If so, then 25ft might be enough. The higher you get that antenna, the better your coverage area will be. Plain and simple.

[WRXP381]

What do you need a repeater for?   What is the use you want to get from it?    Remember a repeater almost never benefits the person that out it uo.      You have a load in money in the radios and you’re going to run a short junker tram antenna?   Spend more money getting a good antenna up as high as possible.   

[TDM827]

According to Wouxon the KG1000 Plus G radio can operate from -4 to 140F, but don't take my word for it, double check my math. You should also check the safe operating temperatures of the duplexer.   

You can always put a thermometer in the cabinet  and fan arrangement you are interested in pursuing. Just remember cabinet temperature will be affected by the heat generated by 2 radios, which in turn in turn will be affected by duty cycle. I wouldn't assume anything about operating temperatures before sticking a bunch of money in a repeater location.

I know its not apples to apples. But as an example, for our commercial radio shack sites we had to install dedicated HVAC units and over temp alarms, even in Wisconsin. On paper the Motorola gear may have operated in our anticipated heat ranges. But our consulting engineer and vendor build engineers insisted on actual AC.     

Best of Luck, keep us posted.       

[WSCF738]

42 minutes ago, warthog74 said:

If you are planning on that repeater to cover more than 2 - 5 miles you’ll want to get the antenna up at least 50ft. Otherwise you may be disappointed with its lack of coverage area. You said you’re on a hill. Are you higher than most everything around you? If so, then 25ft might be enough. The higher you get that antenna, the better your coverage area will be. Plain and simple.

If I have to I can put it on the roof of my house. That'll give me about 40ft. When I'm on my roof I can see that I'm higher then anybody else even the trees.  If it's on the carport my house will be higher. But the main area I'd like to reach the house wouldn't be in the way and it would be line of site for my wife's handheld so that would give her more distance. With just our handheld we only get about 4 miles and I believe it's because of all the trees, houses and valleys. I'm live on 15 acres out in the country. Not many people out here. I understand the height issue that's why I'm going to try it my house first. 

[WRXP381]

9 minutes ago, WSCF738 said:

If I have to I can put it on the roof of my house. That'll give me about 40ft. When I'm on my roof I can see that I'm higher then anybody else even the trees.  If it's on the carport my house will be higher. But the main area I'd like to reach the house wouldn't be in the way and it would be line of site for my wife's handheld so that would give her more distance. With just our handheld we only get about 4 miles and I believe it's because of all the trees, houses and valleys. I'm live on 15 acres out in the country. Not many people out here. I understand the height issue that's why I'm going to try it my house first. 

So it still sounds like you don’t need a repeater at all. You just need a good base station with a good antenna and good antennas on the hts.   A repeater will not help anything you have described.    Plus if you can’t get 5 miles with an ht you have too many things in The way

[WSCF738]

4 minutes ago, TDM827 said:

According to Wouxon the KG1000 Plus G radio can operate from -4 to 140F, but don't take my word for it, double check my math. You should also check the safe operating temperatures of the duplexer.   

You can always put a thermometer in the cabinet  and fan arrangement you are interested in pursuing. Just remember cabinet temperature will be affected by the heat generated by 2 radios, which in turn in turn will be affected by duty cycle. I wouldn't assume anything about operating temperatures before sticking a bunch of money in a repeater location.

I know its not apples to apples. But as an example, for our commercial radio shack sites we had to install dedicated HVAC units and over temp alarms, even in Wisconsin. On paper the Motorola gear may have operated in our anticipated heat ranges. But our consulting engineer and vendor build engineers insisted on actual AC.     

Best of Luck, keep us posted.       

Heat is the main reason I might not put it in the carport that and it would be susceptible to theft.  BUT I know most of the neighbors around me and I don't think they'll take it.  Plus I have 2 security camers in the carport so it'll be recorded plus my dogs would get them. I don't think, or hope, that the heat from the radios will be a factor since they'll be in separate cabinets. I'll have to investigate the heat from the duplexer. Maybe put it on a separate shelf with its own fan.1 

Sounds like being in the house is a better option.

[WSCF738]

2 minutes ago, WRXP381 said:

So it still sounds like you don’t need a repeater at all. You just need a good base station with a good antenna and good antennas on the hts.   A repeater will not help anything you have described.    Plus if you can’t get 5 miles with an ht you have too many things in The way

OK, the main reason to get a repeater is because of my wife, yes I'm blaming her. It is getting hard for her to get up and down and she doesn't want to constantly have to go to the radio to reply to any communication. Yes I know that's what the phone is for BUT we don't always have good phone service and I don't want to use the phone while driving.

The repeater would eliminate that because she can use it. Plus she likes our handheld, Btech GMRS PRO, because it works with Bluetooth. Btech's BS-22, which we can wear, will activate the PTT and our Airpods will be the speaker. We've been using it that way for over 2 weeks and really like it. If the repeater just reaches town then my cost is worth it. According to my compass the height of my antenna, including my house, will be about 600ft. The town I want to reach is only 350ft. So I'm thinking that should work.

[WSCF738]

32 minutes ago, TDM827 said:

According to Wouxon the KG1000 Plus G radio can operate from -4 to 140F, but don't take my word for it, double check my math. You should also check the safe operating temperatures of the duplexer.   

You can always put a thermometer in the cabinet  and fan arrangement you are interested in pursuing. Just remember cabinet temperature will be affected by the heat generated by 2 radios, which in turn in turn will be affected by duty cycle. I wouldn't assume anything about operating temperatures before sticking a bunch of money in a repeater location.

I know its not apples to apples. But as an example, for our commercial radio shack sites we had to install dedicated HVAC units and over temp alarms, even in Wisconsin. On paper the Motorola gear may have operated in our anticipated heat ranges. But our consulting engineer and vendor build engineers insisted on actual AC.     

Best of Luck, keep us posted.       

I'll keep ya'll posted. Both if it accomplishes what I wanted it to do or not. Isn't that is what life is about? Live and learn. That's one reason I'm speaking advice and ideas. I don't believe everything I read on the internet. (Or should I? )

[WSCF738]

1 hour ago, WRXP381 said:

What do you need a repeater for?   What is the use you want to get from it?    Remember a repeater almost never benefits the person that out it uo.      You have a load in money in the radios and you’re going to run a short junker tram antenna?   Spend more money getting a good antenna up as high as possible.   

What antenna would you recommend? From what I've watched on YouTube and read some in this forum. People recommened the Tram 1486 or the Comet CA-712efc. Considering the Comet wasn't available I figured I'd go with the Tram. It it does what I want then mission accomplished.

[WSAM454]

Thinking about the heat, also consider that you will probably not be able to run full power on transmit if you are planning for a number of exchanges during the contact, since the radio, especially with the heat build-up in the metal box will get hot quickly.   Basically, it will be transmitting continuously for anywhere from 1-5 minutes or more.

[BoxCar]

For what you are going to spend buying pieces and parts, consider the BTECH RPT50 (https://baofengtech.com/product/gmrs-rpt50/) It's all together and the only thing needed are the cables, power, and antenna. At $1500 for the repeater that you KNOW will work, it meets all your needs. Run it at 25 W for longevity.

[WRYZ926]

Another good choice is a Bridgecom GMRS repeater. You can get a Bridgecom repeater without a duplexer for $1599 or one with a duplexer for $1999. Our club is running a Bridgecom repeater with a separate (and higher quality) duplexer and the system works very well.

Another option is to find a used Motorola repeater and have it programmed for GMRS.

Dedicated repeaters will be better than trying to use two mobile radios as a repeater. By the time you buy two mobile radios, and a good duplexer, you can buy a dedicated repeater. 

[WRXB215]

19 hours ago, WSCF738 said:

When I'm on my roof I can see that I'm higher then anybody else even the trees.

If you are in an older neighborhood, you may be ok. If you are in a newer neighborhood, think in the future. Those trees may be young and have a lot of growing to do. While you are going through the trouble and expense of putting up an antenna, it might be good to make sure the height is good for several years. That way you are out there trying to raise it in a year or two.

[WSCF738]

2 hours ago, WRXB215 said:

If you are in an older neighborhood, you may be ok. If you are in a newer neighborhood, think in the future. Those trees may be young and have a lot of growing to do. While you are going through the trouble and expense of putting up an antenna, it might be good to make sure the height is good for several years. That way you are out there trying to raise it in a year or two.

I've been out here since 1978 and probably the 3rd person to move here. Most people who move out here buy mobile homes and put on their property. The person across the street also has a 2-story house but I'm still higher then they are. I my be wrong but I don't think any trees will grow higher then me. If they do I can always trim them up (timber). I'm not a tree hugger but I do try to save what I can. I had a VERY big tree that birds loved but unfortunately the drought got it. It was falling apart so I had to cut it down before it fell on my fence. We do live out in the country. I have 15 acres, the person behind me has 75 most of the rest have 5 acres. I'm also almost at the top of a hill so even if people do decide to build they'd have to go more then 3-story and even then I don't think it'll be a problem. Thanks for your reply

[WSCF738]

On 5/5/2024 at 2:30 PM, BoxCar said:

For what you are going to spend buying pieces and parts, consider the BTECH RPT50 (https://baofengtech.com/product/gmrs-rpt50/) It's all together and the only thing needed are the cables, power, and antenna. At $1500 for the repeater that you KNOW will work, it meets all your needs. Run it at 25 W for longevity.

I'm kind of curious. How do we KNOW it will work when Baofengtech just announced it?

[OffRoaderX]

2 minutes ago, WSCF738 said:

How do we KNOW it will work when Baofengtech just announced it?

It works.

[WSCF738]

On 5/5/2024 at 12:25 PM, TDM827 said:

According to Wouxon the KG1000 Plus G radio can operate from -4 to 140F, but don't take my word for it, double check my math. You should also check the safe operating temperatures of the duplexer.   

You can always put a thermometer in the cabinet  and fan arrangement you are interested in pursuing. Just remember cabinet temperature will be affected by the heat generated by 2 radios, which in turn in turn will be affected by duty cycle. I wouldn't assume anything about operating temperatures before sticking a bunch of money in a repeater location.

I know its not apples to apples. But as an example, for our commercial radio shack sites we had to install dedicated HVAC units and over temp alarms, even in Wisconsin. On paper the Motorola gear may have operated in our anticipated heat ranges. But our consulting engineer and vendor build engineers insisted on actual AC.     

Best of Luck, keep us posted.       

UPDATE: Just to keep you posted I. installed the 1000G Plus in my Tahoe and went for a test run. My wife only had a Btech GMRS Pro and in our house. I was able to get over twice the distance then with just 2 GMRS Pro's. At 4.2 Miles we were "loud and clear" but at 6.5 miles we didn't have any contact. As a side note it was overcast with occasional rain. I guess I should have tried 5 miles but wasn't sure where that was. Tomorrow, if it doesn't rain, I'll put the antenna on the house, about 40'. Then connect my other 1000G Plus as a base station and test it out. Then on Friday, again if no rain, I'll connect them up as a repeater and see what happens. Only time will tell. (We having fun yet?)

[WRYZ926]

You will definitely do better with a base antenna. Get it as high as you can and also use the best quality coax you can afford. LMR400 or equivalent is the best.

Location, terrain, structures, etc will affect how far away you can talk. My antenna is at 18 feet above ground and I talk to guys at 18 miles and 22 miles away on simplex. Their antennas are at 40 feet and 60 feet above ground. We are all using Comet CA-712EFC antennas. All three of us are using the Wouxun KG-1000G as our base stations.

[WSCF738]

46 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

It works.

Oh I forgot you did say you’re going to review it in your last YouTube video. I can hardly wait to see what you have to say. Your videos are really informative and interesting. I like your attitude not to mention your T-shirts.

[GreggInFL]

28 minutes ago, WSCF738 said:

UPDATE: ...(We having fun yet?)

Yes, we are.  I'm in a similar situation; considering a repeater for neighborhood comms because sometimes the weather here can get nasty.

 

[WSCF738]

52 minutes ago, WRYZ926 said:

You will definitely do better with a base antenna. Get it as high as you can and also use the best quality coax you can afford. LMR400 or equivalent is the best.

Location, terrain, structures, etc will affect how far away you can talk. My antenna is at 18 feet above ground and I talk to guys at 18 miles and 22 miles away on simplex. Their antennas are at 40 feet and 60 feet above ground. We are all using Comet CA-712EFC antennas. All three of us are using the Wouxun KG-1000G as our base stations.

The Comet wasn’t available so I ended up with the Tram 1486. My antenna will be 40 feet off the ground. Which will be higher than anything else around, as far as my eyes can see. Just have to remember not to look down when I’m installing the antenna.

[SteveShannon]

Gigaparts has the 712efc in stock for $130:

https://www.gigaparts.com/comet-ca-712efc-460-470mhz-base-repeater-antenna.html

[WRXP381]

7 minutes ago, WSCF738 said:

The Comet wasn’t available so I ended up with the Tram 1486. My antenna will be 40 feet off the ground. Which will be higher than anything else around, as far as my eyes can see. Just have to remember not to look down when I’m installing the antenna.

That’s too bad about the tram. The comet 712 is available from several retailers ready to ship. It’s about twice the antenna for $30more.  My comet 712efc does over 200miles it’s 30’ up with a 20w base.  My neighbor had a tram. He was lucky to get 20miles with his 50w. 

[WSCF738]

34 minutes ago, WRXP381 said:

That’s too bad about the tram. The comet 712 is available from several retailers ready to ship. It’s about twice the antenna for $30more.  My comet 712efc does over 200miles it’s 30’ up with a 20w base.  My neighbor had a tram. He was lucky to get 20miles with his 50w. 

I’ll see what it does when I get it up, hopefully tomorrow. If not I’ll think about getting the Comet.