Can I use Morse code to identify myself on my GMRS handheld radio?

[tweiss3]

3 minutes ago, Lscott said:

I wasn't aware of the specific emission designation for CW ID on NXDN. Thanks.  

I think its the only way to stay legal on the few very-narrow frequencies that require 6.25kHz spacing.

[Lscott]

3 hours ago, tweiss3 said:

I think its the only way to stay legal on the few very-narrow frequencies that require 6.25kHz spacing.

That makes sense. You wouldn't want to run "narrow band" NXDN on a FCC licensed "very narrow band" frequency. I would like to know if there are any really solid technical reasons why CW ID isn't done on DMR and P25. I just wild guessed what it could be in the prior posts. I am likely wrong, but have to start somewhere.

[WRUE951]

The only time ever i have heard someone use their call sign when talking on GMRS is when they talk via a repeater..  And even at that, call signs are seldom used..  IMO, GMRS has turned into another free for all  zoo and only getting worse, especially in the bigger cities.  At this point, i certainly would not worry about a call sign.  

[Lscott]

3 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

And even at that, call signs are seldom used..  IMO, GMRS has turned into another free for all  zoo and only getting worse, especially in the bigger cities.  At this point, i certainly would not worry about a call sign.  

And one wonders why it's getting worse?

[BoxCar]

With the GMRS radio vendors not requiring a call sign to buy a radio ...

[WRXB215]

1 hour ago, WRUE951 said:

The only time ever i have heard someone use their call sign when talking on GMRS is when they talk via a repeater..  And even at that, call signs are seldom used..  IMO, GMRS has turned into another free for all  zoo and only getting worse, especially in the bigger cities.  At this point, i certainly would not worry about a call sign.

In what area are you referring to? Call signs are used quite regularly in the Houston area.

[WRQC527]

1 hour ago, WRUE951 said:

The only time ever i have heard someone use their call sign when talking on GMRS is when they talk via a repeater..  And even at that, call signs are seldom used..  IMO, GMRS has turned into another free for all  zoo and only getting worse, especially in the bigger cities.  At this point, i certainly would not worry about a call sign.  

I tend to agree. I generally don't even use GMRS except for repeaters. I'll use MURS simplex if it's just my wife and I. I rarely hear call signs on either simplex amateur 2 meter/70cm or GMRS. Although my amateur radio friends do ID on simplex.

[SteveShannon]

1 hour ago, BoxCar said:

With the GMRS radio vendors not requiring a call sign to buy a radio ...

Do ham radio vendors require a call sign before selling a radio?

[WRUE951]

46 minutes ago, WRXB215 said:

In what area are you referring to? Call signs are used quite regularly in the Houston area.

anywhere in Calif..  Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Francisco and even the rural areas.    Also notice same in Reno, Las Vegas, Phoenix and Denver.  

[WRUE951]

30 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Do ham radio vendors require a call sign before selling a radio?

Some of them ask, but they don't require..  Especially in this money hungry day..  

[WRUE951]

2 hours ago, Lscott said:

And one wonders why it's getting worse?

it's already gone my friend...   But have fun if you can..   

[WRQC527]

3 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

Do ham radio vendors require a call sign before selling a radio?

I've never heard of any vendor asking for a call sign before selling a radio. The most I've seen is vendors with a disclaimer that says listen all you want, but amateur and GMRS radios can only be used for transmitting by licensed operators. But I have seen vendors requiring an amateur radio call sign in order to purchase an amplifier that functions on 10 meters because of the potential to use them on 11 meters. Who would ever do such a thing?

.

[BoxCar]

4 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

Do ham radio vendors require a call sign before selling a radio?

Most ask for your call sign on their order forms..

[WRQC527]

2 hours ago, BoxCar said:

Most ask for your call sign on their order forms..

As a condition of selling it? HRO asks me, but it's because I have an account with them, but they ask me for any purchase.

[SteveShannon]

3 minutes ago, WRQC527 said:

As a condition of selling it? HRO asks me, but it's because I have an account with them, but they ask me for any purchase.

Yes, it’s part of my profile, but purchasing a ham radio is not restricted by any regulations. I wouldn’t deal with a company that thinks it’s their business to act as gatekeepers. 

[gortex2]

15 hours ago, Lscott said:

That makes sense. You wouldn't want to run "narrow band" NXDN on a FCC licensed "very narrow band" frequency. I would like to know if there are any really solid technical reasons why CW ID isn't done on DMR and P25. I just wild guessed what it could be in the prior posts. I am likely wrong, but have to start somewhere.

Every DMR and P25 system I have implimented CWID is done in analog. Thats one of the first things I set in my P25 stuff. It can send it "digital" over control channel also but it in analog 99% of the time. 

[gortex2]

Years ago all Ham vendors asked for a copy of a license. Radio Shack had a policy that specifically stated paper license. I had to wait for weeks to even put my HTX202 on Lay-Away with Radio Shack until my license came in the mail. HRO used to be the same. I never had an issue with it. Remember up until the CCR movement radios were regulated way more than now. I remember my father buying GMRS mobiles from a radio shop (cause they were you bought them) and he had to bring in his licence before they would ordser the xstals for the radio. 

[Lscott]

5 hours ago, gortex2 said:

Every DMR and P25 system I have implimented CWID is done in analog. Thats one of the first things I set in my P25 stuff. It can send it "digital" over control channel also but it in analog 99% of the time. 

Interesting. I wonder if there are any rules specifically about how ID’s must be done on digital systems. 
 

I'm assuming you’re referring to repeaters exclusively, doing the CWID in analog. 
 

The question was about subscriber units, user radios, when using a repeater or in simplex mode. In my case, likely not in general, the CWID feature is only available when using NXDN on the Kenwood radios I have. For example the ND-1300, current production radio, when the NXDN version is selected in the programming software the manual CWID TX feature is available. However selecting the DMR version it’s not. I’m trying to find out is there a rule or technical reason why that’s the case. So far I haven’t found anything definitive.

[gortex2]

CWID has always been a base/repeater thing. In a P25 system its the highest channel in the trunk system that normally gets the call sign. DMR gets it in the repeater as does P25 conventional. Ive never owned a P25 subscriber that gave you the ability to add a CWID to them. Part of the rules even with Public Safety requires identifications as with any other amateur or GMRS station so I doubt manufacturers see a need for it. When our SAR team uses conventional the policy states to use call sign per FCC rules. Normally that is given by the command post thats on the operational channel. In all reality subscriber to subscriber is not very enforced. By the rule our fire department radios that have a uhf conventional frequency would require us to use a call sign. Ive never jumped out of an engine or rescue, strapped on my SCBA and given a call sign on the chanenl. IC would probably go iff the deep end. It happens way more than all of us worry about it. 

[Ian]

On 6/5/2024 at 10:23 PM, Slickii said:

There's plenty of ways to your transmit a callsign as morse code.  Plus, I can think of mutuple useful and applicable uses for morse code over verbally saying a callsign.

I guess it's a matter of tech (also convenience) meets GMRS handheld radios would be the main reason people don't use morse code that much for identification.  Also, culture, which is basically all this anyway.

Emphasis mine.  I have a fantasy that I'll be able to find, someday, a radio which will let me set my callsign as my roger beep at 100+ WPM so it's not too obnoxious.  Compatible radios/repeaters/software would then be able to display who's transmitting like fancy dispatch systems with MDC and stuff like that, but do it on a $20 cheap-chinese-potato budget.

[OffRoaderX]

7 minutes ago, Ian said:

I have a fantasy that I'll be able to find, someday, a radio which will let me set my callsign as my roger beep

Geezus..  You should go outside.. and leave the radio in the basement.

[Hoppyjr]

Geezus..  You should go outside.. and leave the radio in the basement.

More hot pockets mom!

[Ian]

I'm about to shower the salt off from a trip to the beach twenty minutes ago.  

 

I still think it's the only digital mode that can be made human-readable just by slowing down the tape, which seems like a nice trick to have.  In practice, I'll probably just use a GMRS Pro doing "APRS", though.

[BertMack]

I've been reading through the GMRS rules looking for some regulation on WPM speed of a CW ID.  Does one exist?

[SteveShannon]

12 minutes ago, BertMack said:

I've been reading through the GMRS rules looking for some regulation on WPM speed of a CW ID.  Does one exist?

No, it simply says that your id may be voice or Morse code. I’ve heard some that are pretty quick.