Impossible Range or Unlisted Repeater?

[WRKW566]

So, while typing-out my post I seem to have researched each question/observation I was going to pose and answered my questions for myself.

While looking for alternate means to communicate discounting POT and cellular, I bought a pair of GMRS radios. (lesson learned: borrow and test before purchase)

I "discovered" range = altitude - obstruction where being on the 10th floor of a building on the Gulf Coast lets you "hit" repeaters 40 miles away.

I evaluated how other people view "walkie talkies" in our current echo-chamber media cesspool.

I let my better judgment talk me out of spending a hundred or so dollars to add GMRS to my car... there is no (my) family interest in GMRS ("why do I want to use that? My cell phone works fine").

While I myself intend to continue playing with these radios, they have become a money sink and eventually will end up in my SIDU "Sid-ou" drawer. ("Stuff" I Don't Use)

In  the interim, do any of you have ideas on interesting things to do with/to these radios and would any of you like to dissect my post for fun and humor?

(please remember this is a SFW website and avoid the obvious responses to the previous question)

Posted to General Discussion, please move to other Forum if necessary.

[Socalgmrs]

Line of sight is everything in 460 uhf.  We have many many people in so cal that hit our repeaters with hand helds from 40- even 60miles away.  
 

I talk all the time in a repeater 200miles away with a 20w base station at home.  

50-100miles happens all the time for me in my trucks with $130 mobile units and a $30mag mount.      

this is all when other people can’t get 5miles with a 50w radio.  
 

line of sight and antenna then watts. 
 

 

[WRXB215]

15 minutes ago, WRKW566 said:

do any of you have ideas on interesting things to do with/to these radios

GMRS is intended for families and other small groups. As such, the technology is very limited. If you are looking to do other "interesting" things with two-way radios, you may need to look into ham.

[LeeBo]

35 minutes ago, WRKW566 said:

I let my better judgment talk me out of spending a hundred or so dollars to add GMRS to my car... there is no (my) family interest in GMRS ("why do I want to use that? My cell phone works fine").

Speaking from experience, when that "once in 1000 years" storm comes through and knocks out power (including cell towers) for weeks/months at a time, you'll be glad you have that GMRS radio.

[WRKW566]

Indeed! Having ridden-out a few hurricanes, the lack of communication brought about by the lack of electrical power makes these radios attractive. In honesty now-a-days I just horde diesel fuel and drive North when threatened by these conditions. The last time this happened here we did not have "city power" for a little like two weeks. I spent some of the time here using a generator but the noise and disrupted routine got to me and I packed-out. The problem then becomes reaching back into the area to check in on friends and family. That no electricity thing is still a problem. Reaching back into an area where communications is a "once in 1000 years" issue is difficult. Amateur radio would be a nice solution but considering my reluctance to the social aspect of the activity and knowing the technical capabilities and limitations of the family, "HAM" radio is not going to be a solution. Expensive solution would be satellite communication but again, that way-less than once in a lifetime need makes that unattractive as well.

My take away from this exercise is that there is no reliable, accessible, competitive solution outside of wire line and cell that I will be able to "sell" to my friends and family. I have even considered mesh networking. My mom suggested pigeons remarking "At least you have a nice bird to feed and look at, that radio is ugly."

[GreggInFL]

1 hour ago, LeeBo said:

Speaking from experience, when that "once in 1000 years" storm comes through and knocks out power (including cell towers) for weeks/months at a time, you'll be glad you have that GMRS radio.

Yeah, I'll report back after Milton.  Already hearing radio checks over the area's biggest repeater.

[WRHS218]

My wife of almost 44 years has never been into radio although she didn't mind me being into them. She now has her own pink GMRS radio. It only took one emergency situation for her to see the value of GMRS. The "once in 1000 years" has happened 5 times to us in the last 7 years, in the form of wildfire evacuations, snow storms taking down power and cell service and various other loss of power or cell service events. Oh and one semi lost person in the mountains that wouldn't have been lost had they carried an available radio. She took advantage of the cell phone outage last week to teach our 6.5 year old granddaughter how to talk on the radio.

[LeoG]

My wife for whatever reason has decided she likes the walkie talkies because they are "fun".  Right now she mostly uses the base station and we have communication between my house and my shop.  Yes, we have phones, but me being "one of them" I dislike having all of my digital communications stored forever in Utah.  I like being able to lift up the talkie and press one button to communicate with my wife.  No multi button presses, waiting for a pick up.  At times now I have to scroll down quite a ways to find my wifes text thread because for the most part we talk on the radio.

I got them because it was something I did as a child.  Figured it was fun.  And even if my wife didn't enjoy them I still do.  We have an active repeater and I talk with some of them characters on it.  It's definitely a 2nd communication source that isn't reliant on others.  It's getting to the point that I carry the talkie around with me more than I do my phone.

[ldcarson]

I was just reading an article on CBRS (Not GMRS) where they have something similar to ARDEN (Ham Radio) which creates a mesh network to extend internet, wifi 5g and 4g LTE.  They are deploying it in NC in the mountains as no license's is required unlike the HAM version of ARDEN.  I must confess I didn't know that CBRS had such a freq. allocation.  All very interesting.

 

[LeoG]

So when 4 and 5G go down it's dead?

[SteveShannon]

1 hour ago, ldcarson said:

I was just reading an article on CBRS (Not GMRS) where they have something similar to ARDEN (Ham Radio) which creates a mesh network to extend internet, wifi 5g and 4g LTE.  They are deploying it in NC in the mountains as no license's is required unlike the HAM version of ARDEN.  I must confess I didn't know that CBRS had such a freq. allocation.  All very interesting.

 

Do you have a link?

[ldcarson]

 

Citizens Broadband Radio Service

US broadcast band

CBRS radios operate in the 3.5 GHz band, specifically between 3550 MHz and 3700 MHz, in the United States. This band was allocated by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in 2015 for commercial use, with a three-tiered approach to sharing the spectrum among federal and non-federal users.

Key Characteristics

• 150 MHz wide broadcast band
• Complements Wi-Fi, providing broader coverage, reliable connectivity, and advanced traffic segmentation
• Suitable for deploying private 5G/LTE networks
• Supports Wireless Internet Service Providers (WISPs), enterprises, and industries such as utility, energy, manufacturing, and agriculture

Use Cases

• Private 5G/LTE networks for enterprises and industries
• Wireless broadband services for rural and underserved areas
• IoT (Internet of Things) applications requiring low-latency, high-reliability connectivity

Note: CBRS radios are not to be confused with Citizens Band Radio Service (CB Radio) or other similar services. The Citizens Broadband Radio Service is a distinct allocation of spectrum for commercial use.

[ldcarson]

 

CBRS Spectrum Tier Bands

Based on the provided search results, the CBRS spectrum is organized into three tiers, with specific frequency bands allocated to each tier:

Tier 1: Incumbent Users

• 3550-3700 MHz (entire band) - reserved for Incumbent users, including US Military radar systems and satellite services.

Tier 2: Priority Access License (PAL) Holders

• 3550-3650 MHz - allocated for PAL holders, who require a license to operate in this band.

Tier 3: General Authorized Access (GAA) Users

• 3650-3700 MHz - available for GAA users, who do not require a license to operate in this band. GAA users can operate opportunistically on unused Priority Access channels and use any portion of the 3550-3700 MHz band not assigned to a higher tier user.

Note that the CBRS spectrum spans 150 MHz, from 3.55 GHz to 3.7 GHz in the United States, as mentioned in one of the search results. However, the specific frequency bands allocated to each tier are as described above.

[LeoG]

So what's the channel spread?  Or is it a free for all within that 150 MHz band?

[SteveShannon]

6 hours ago, LeoG said:

So what's the channel spread?  Or is it a free for all within that 150 MHz band?

Here are the actual regulations:

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-96

[LeoG]

10MHz

But after reading the regulations it sounds like no one can use this.

[GreggInFL]

On 10/8/2024 at 4:18 PM, GreggInFL said:

Yeah, I'll report back after Milton.  Already hearing radio checks over the area's biggest repeater.

Introduced the HOA to GMRS and it was well received as an all-else-fails comm backup.  We agreed to use a specific channel and establish a net protocol if the internet goes down -- which has yet to happen.

[ldcarson]

On 10/9/2024 at 12:11 PM, LeoG said:

So when 4 and 5G go down it's dead?

I think they deployment in NC is more about connecting to Starlink Nodes and providing broadband

[LeoG]

So big commercial towers 200' tall pointing at each other.

[WRPQ991]

On 10/10/2024 at 9:42 AM, GreggInFL said:

Introduced the HOA to GMRS and it was well received as an all-else-fails comm backup.  We agreed to use a specific channel and establish a net protocol if the internet goes down -- which has yet to happen.

Are you just doing simplex or a small local repeater?  Simplex can be done with a FRS radio (no license) while GMRS requires a license

[GreggInFL]

On 10/13/2024 at 6:08 PM, WRPQ991 said:

Are you just doing simplex or a small local repeater?  Simplex can be done with a FRS radio (no license) while GMRS requires a license

We cover 1,500+ wooded acres, so FRS is not an option.  In fact, GMRS simplex is marginal at best.

[WSFF871]

On 10/8/2024 at 5:36 PM, LeoG said:

My wife for whatever reason has decided she likes the walkie talkies because they are "fun".  Right now she mostly uses the base station and we have communication between my house and my shop.  Yes, we have phones, but me being "one of them" I dislike having all of my digital communications stored forever in Utah.  I like being able to lift up the talkie and press one button to communicate with my wife.  No multi button presses, waiting for a pick up.  At times now I have to scroll down quite a ways to find my wifes text thread because for the most part we talk on the radio.

I got them because it was something I did as a child.  Figured it was fun.  And even if my wife didn't enjoy them I still do.  We have an active repeater and I talk with some of them characters on it.  It's definitely a 2nd communication source that isn't reliant on others.  It's getting to the point that I carry the talkie around with me more than I do my phone.

Leo... would you mind commenting on "was it difficult to install and set up your own repeater"?

Many Thx... Bobby in FL

[SvenMarbles]

On 10/10/2024 at 9:42 AM, GreggInFL said:

Introduced the HOA to GMRS and it was well received as an all-else-fails comm backup.  We agreed to use a specific channel and establish a net protocol if the internet goes down -- which has yet to happen.

I'm literally doing this right now for my whole town. So far 100 members are involved in the Facebook group for it. Monthly radio checks on a certain day and time..

[LeoG]

On 10/19/2024 at 2:52 PM, WSFF871 said:

Leo... would you mind commenting on "was it difficult to install and set up your own repeater"?

Many Thx... Bobby in FL

Difficult is a relative term.  1st of all the repeater I was talking about where you quoted me was an existing repeater on top of a mountain.  But I do have my own and it started out in my shop with an RT97S 5watt repeater by Retevis.  I bought their kit that came with some cable and an antenna.  I used the antenna but not the cable.  I got some LMR400 to connect things up.  Antenna is up about 40ft off the ground and 140 ft above sea level.  It's surrounded by trees which turned out to be a big issue.  Now that the leaves are falling the signal is increasing but I've also swapped out the 5watt for a 50watt repeater.

The big issue is the tree leaves.  Just kills the signal.  So that's where things get more involved.  I'm starting to get setup to put up a 72' mast with another 10' pole and a Comet CA 712EFC antenna.  That's turning into a project.  I'm building a lot of the stuff.  Made a mast out of Red Grandis which is a weather resistant wood and hard like hard maple.  Making a hinge so it can be maintained or dropped during hurricanes of high winds.  It'll have a battery winch to do that.  I have the mast built in sections right now.. waiting for some metal plates to come in so I can get them water jetted and then welded.  So call it a challenge, call it fun, call it what you will.