I can trigger repeater, but no one hears me.

[MordeKyle]

I have two GMRS handhelds. I am trying to hit a local repeater. When I key up and release, I get a tone back from the repeater. No one ever hears my traffic though. I have the CTCSS set to 141.3 on RX and TX as it says on the repeaters page. I am not sure what I could be doing wrong. 

The handhelds are a Btech GMRS PRO and a Wouxun UV9GX. I also just got a programming cable for the Wouxun. CHIRPS seems to have different tone settings, so maybe I need to adjust something there? 

Any help us greatly appreciated. I'm trying to learn as much as I can. 

Thanks! 

[Socalgmrs]

If you’re getting the kerchunk or tone back your settings are correct.   I’d bet yuur just too far away.  How far are you?  What antennas are you running?  Do you have line of sight?   What are your surroundings like? 

[MordeKyle]

1 hour ago, Socalgmrs said:

If you’re getting the kerchunk or tone back your settings are correct.   I’d bet yuur just too far away.  How far are you?  What antennas are you running?  Do you have line of sight?   What are your surroundings like? 

I don't know exactly where the repeater is, but I think I was pretty close. Within a couple miles at most. 

I have a Nagoya 771G on the Btech and the stock antenna on the Wouxun. 

Just got a couple of the Smiley Super Sticks to try out. I'm definitely too far away at home. Was going to drive out there this weekend to try again. 

[wayoverthere]

Are you testing with the two handhelds in basically the same location? If so, since the repeater is passing the transmitted audio in realtime it's entirely possible that the audio is getting through, but the nearby signal from the transmitting radio is causing the other radio to desense (or "go deaf"), so it doesn't "hear" the audio coming back.

Having done a little testing for/with desense, the behavior in practice is pretty much what you described ...receiving radio shows an incoming signal, but no audio.

Unless there's some pretty severe barrier (like a hill/mountain) to the signal (or a pretty bad blind spot near the repeater), getting into the repeater from a couple miles away should be doable.

[MordeKyle]

18 hours ago, wayoverthere said:

Are you testing with the two handhelds in basically the same location? If so, since the repeater is passing the transmitted audio in realtime it's entirely possible that the audio is getting through, but the nearby signal from the transmitting radio is causing the other radio to desense (or "go deaf"), so it doesn't "hear" the audio coming back.

Having done a little testing for/with desense, the behavior in practice is pretty much what you described ...receiving radio shows an incoming signal, but no audio.

Unless there's some pretty severe barrier (like a hill/mountain) to the signal (or a pretty bad blind spot near the repeater), getting into the repeater from a couple miles away should be doable.

I thought this might be an issue. The other handheld I'm using doesn't even break squelch. Would that happen if what you're describing is happening? I also got no response when I asked if anyone was hearing me, which could have been because no one was listening. 

Thanks. 

[marcspaz]

Use the two radios to talk to each other directly to make sure the audio works.  If it does, and you are bringing up the repeater, it could be that your signal is too weak and people can't understand you.

 

Another possibility is That some repeaters can have multiple tones options enabled at the same time. If other are using a different tone squelch, they may not hear you. If they are not using a ti e squelch, but transmitting a different tone than you, you wouldn't hear them reply.

 

After you do the simplex test (radio to radio) try programming the o e that does reach the repeater to only use a carrier squelch, but transmitting the proper tone. This way you will hear all traffic on that channel. 

[MordeKyle]

1 hour ago, marcspaz said:

Use the two radios to talk to each other directly to make sure the audio works.  If it does, and you are bringing up the repeater, it could be that your signal is too weak and people can't understand you.

 

Another possibility is That some repeaters can have multiple tones options enabled at the same time. If other are using a different tone squelch, they may not hear you. If they are not using a ti e squelch, but transmitting a different tone than you, you wouldn't hear them reply.

 

After you do the simplex test (radio to radio) try programming the o e that does reach the repeater to only use a carrier squelch, but transmitting the proper tone. This way you will hear all traffic on that channel. 

I really appreciate your reply. The simplex test is good. I'm was able to hit the repeater with all of the radios, and I could hear the repeater responded with either a beep or a Morse code. The radio that was not transmitting didn't brake squelch while I was transmitting but did hear the repeater respond with the tone. Does that make sense? 

I'm sorry, I'm new to all of this and trying to learn, could you please clarify what you mean by only using a carrier squelch? 

I really appreciate your help! 

Edited to add:

Just so I'm as clear as I possibly can be... If I transmit with, for example, the Wouxun the Btech doesn't show its receiving anything at all. When I stop transmitting with the wouxon, both the wouxon and the btech then receive the beed or Morse back from the repeater. 

My confusion is that if I am activating the the repeater with the wouxon so that the repeater is sending a reply, should it not also be sending a signal out (even if dead air because of distance) that would activate the btech while I'm transmitting? 

I did do a test where I left the btech inside with my Dad and I went out to the street and transmitted, with the same result. 

[WRUU653]

I agree that because you are hearing the repeater ID that you likely are hitting the repeater I’m leaning toward desense for the reason you’re not hearing yourself. I think to know for sure you will need another party or put some distance between the two radios and record one of them. Have you heard anyone else on the repeater?

[Jonolvey]

Someone wants told me that tone the radio transmits to open the repeater travels further than the FN voice does lots of questions on that

[WRUU653]

3 minutes ago, Jonolvey said:

Someone wants told me that tone the radio transmits to open the repeater travels further than the FN voice does lots of questions on that

I have certainly been close enough to open the squelch on a repeater that I wasn’t close enough to be heard with a clear signal before. 

[Jonolvey]

1 hour ago, MordeKyle said:

I really appreciate your reply. The simplex test is good. I'm was able to hit the repeater with all of the radios, and I could hear the repeater responded with either a beep or a Morse code. The radio that was not transmitting didn't brake squelch while I was transmitting but did hear the repeater respond with the tone. Does that make sense? 

I'm sorry, I'm new to all of this and trying to learn, could you please clarify what you mean by only using a carrier squelch? 

I really appreciate your help! 

Edited to add:

Just so I'm as clear as I possibly can be... If I transmit with, for example, the Wouxun the Btech doesn't show its receiving anything at all. When I stop transmitting with the wouxon, both the wouxon and the btech then receive the beed or Morse back from the repeater. 

My confusion is that if I am activating the the repeater with the wouxon so that the repeater is sending a reply, should it not also be sending a signal out (even if dead air because of distance) that would activate the btech while I'm transmitting? 

I did do a test where I left the btech inside with my Dad and I went out to the street and transmitted, with the same result. 

Arrow antenna satellite antennas makes it gmrs beam they're not too much maybe if you try one of them

[Jonolvey]

1 minute ago, Jonolvey said:

Arrow antenna satellite antennas makes it gmrs beam they're not too much maybe if you try one of them

In the world of radio you'll never quit learning and if anybody tells you they know everything they're probably lying

[marcspaz]

1 hour ago, MordeKyle said:

I really appreciate your reply. The simplex test is good. I'm was able to hit the repeater with all of the radios, and I could hear the repeater responded with either a beep or a Morse code. The radio that was not transmitting didn't brake squelch while I was transmitting but did hear the repeater respond with the tone. Does that make sense? 

I'm sorry, I'm new to all of this and trying to learn, could you please clarify what you mean by only using a carrier squelch? 

I really appreciate your help! 

Edited to add:

Just so I'm as clear as I possibly can be... If I transmit with, for example, the Wouxun the Btech doesn't show its receiving anything at all. When I stop transmitting with the wouxon, both the wouxon and the btech then receive the beed or Morse back from the repeater. 

My confusion is that if I am activating the the repeater with the wouxon so that the repeater is sending a reply, should it not also be sending a signal out (even if dead air because of distance) that would activate the btech while I'm transmitting? 

I did do a test where I left the btech inside with my Dad and I went out to the street and transmitted, with the same result. 

 

 

 

No worries my friend. We all had to learn somehow. I'm still learning new things. No need to apologize. 

 

So, a carrier squelch is just the regular squelch that you adjust to stop the hash noise from coming over the speaker. It won't let any audio come through until a signal is received that is strong enough to break that squelch. 

 

So, the repeater requires both a signal that is strong enough to break the carrier squelch, and it needs a tone to be embedded in the signal to open its receiver. You radio has the same ability. If you don't enable the tone squelch on your radio,  it is simply relying on the signal strength to allow audio to come out of the speaker. This way you can hear every station.

 

To do that, set the radio to use Tone (TN) instead of Tone Squelch (TSQ). This will transmit the tone to unlock the repeater a d let you hear everything. If you use Tone Squelch (TSQ), then the radio only unlocks when the repeater (or another radio) transmits that same tone.

 

I hope that makes sense.

[MordeKyle]

27 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

 

 

 

No worries my friend. We all had to learn somehow. I'm still learning new things. No need to apologize. 

 

So, a carrier squelch is just the regular squelch that you adjust to stop the hash noise from coming over the speaker. It won't let any audio come through until a signal is received that is strong enough to break that squelch. 

 

So, the repeater requires both a signal that is strong enough to break the carrier squelch, and it needs a tone to be embedded in the signal to open its receiver. You radio has the same ability. If you don't enable the tone squelch on your radio,  it is simply relying on the signal strength to allow audio to come out of the speaker. This way you can hear every station.

 

To do that, set the radio to use Tone (TN) instead of Tone Squelch (TSQ). This will transmit the tone to unlock the repeater a d let you hear everything. If you use Tone Squelch (TSQ), then the radio only unlocks when the repeater (or another radio) transmits that same tone.

 

I hope that makes sense.

That does make sense, thanks for the reply. 

If I put the non transmitting btech on monitor would that achieve the same result? I don't belive I have the ability to change that setting on the btech. Would removing the rx CTCSS work? 

The btech GMRS pro is programmed on a phone app over Bluetooth, and doesn't have near the same settings as the wouxon does in CHIPRS or the wouxon program. 

[MordeKyle]

32 minutes ago, Jonolvey said:

In the world of radio you'll never quit learning and if anybody tells you they know everything they're probably lying

I'll check them out, thanks. 

[MordeKyle]

1 hour ago, WRUU653 said:

I agree that because you are hearing the repeater ID that you likely are hitting the repeater I’m leaning toward desense for the reason you’re not hearing yourself. I think to know for sure you will need another party or put some distance between the two radios and record one of them. Have you heard anyone else on the repeater?

Would desense keep the other radio from even receiving the signal at all? It doesn't register there is anything until the beep comes back from the repeater. 

Thanks! 

[OffRoaderX]

29 minutes ago, MordeKyle said:

Would desense keep the other radio from even receiving the signal at all? It doesn't register there is anything until the beep comes back from the repeater. 

Yes.. That's what deSense does.. The reason you hear the beep is because that happens AFTER you let go of the push-to-talk trigger, so the radio is no longer desensed..

Get the radios at least 25 feet apart and try again.

[marcspaz]

7 minutes ago, MordeKyle said:

Would removing the rx CTCSS work? 

 

Yes, this is exactly what you want to do.

[WRUU653]

3 minutes ago, MordeKyle said:

Would desense keep the other radio from even receiving the signal at all? It doesn't register there is anything until the beep comes back from the repeater. 

Thanks! 

What @OffRoaderX said exactly, the fact that you heard it on the other radio after you let the button go is why I thought this. 

[MordeKyle]

11 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

Yes.. That's what defense does.. The reason you hear the beep is because that happens AFTER you let go of the push-to-talk trigger, so the radio is no longer desensed..

Get the radios at least 25 feet apart and try again.

I definitely got them that far apart with a brick wall in between with no luck. I am curious about this though. Keying up in my vehicle disconnects my wired phone from my stereo every time. 

[MordeKyle]

10 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

 

Yes, this is exactly what you want to do.

Awesome, I will give this a try. 

[marcspaz]

Just now, MordeKyle said:

I definitely got them that far apart with a brick wall in between with no luck. I am curious about this though. Keying up in my vehicle disconnects my wired phone from my stereo every time. 

 

I have had to separate some handheld radios as much as 100+ feet to stop the desense. If you're running more than 1w-2w, you may need more distance than what you're currently doing. 

[wayoverthere]

1 hour ago, MordeKyle said:

I thought this might be an issue. The other handheld I'm using doesn't even break squelch. Would that happen if what you're describing is happening? I also got no response when I asked if anyone was hearing me, which could have been because no one was listening. 

Thanks. 

(Scratched what I had typed but missed the submit...Marc covered it already)