Antenna Recommendations for Apartment

[Daedalus0101101]

Greetings everyone,

I am hoping to get an antenna recommendation for someone that lives in an apartment.  I have a HT that can hit my local repeater, but people say that its a bit scratchy and I have to be right next to my window to get good signal for transmit.  I am looking to get a mobile station ( home base station.....why are there no radios like the iCom 7300 for GMRS??) and want a good antenna with a ground plane already on it.  I won't be able to mount the antenna outside and/or punch holes through the walls for a cable being in an apartment, so I'm looking for something that can be inside near the window.  Already have power and my mobile unit (at least my first one) picked out, just need an antenna. 

 

Thanks in advance

 

David

[kidphc]

Greetings everyone,
I am hoping to get an antenna recommendation for someone that lives in an apartment.  I have a HT that can hit my local repeater, but people say that its a bit scratchy and I have to be right next to my window to get good signal for transmit.  I am looking to get a mobile station ( home base station.....why are there no radios like the iCom 7300 for GMRS??) and want a good antenna with a ground plane already on it.  I won't be able to mount the antenna outside and/or punch holes through the walls for a cable being in an apartment, so I'm looking for something that can be inside near the window.  Already have power and my mobile unit (at least my first one) picked out, just need an antenna. 
 
Thanks in advance
 
David

First off. Something like a ic7300 is a massive overkill for GMRS. Akin to a nuclear bomb to kill a fly. Most people will not even attempt to buy it.

Secondly, there are great mobile radios. Like the wooxun kg series, older Motorolas/kenwoods all the way down to something like a db20g.

Lastly, I wouldn't want a 50w mobile rig blasting away with an antenna inside that close to me. I have friends that do something similar, but they were mentally off to begin with.

You can also cut a 2x4, and make a psuedo pass through for a window or sliding door (if you have a balcony). I perfer the balcony route for the antenna, since you can dress the antenna to look like a plant from far away, it's outside. There are several reasons for it, more than rf exposure, electro magnetic waves tend not to like some structures more than others. This is why you need to get close to the windows with the ht, a lot of the signal is getting attenuated by the building structure.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[WRYS709]

7 minutes ago, kidphc said:

First off. Something like a ic7300 is a massive overkill for GMRS. Akin to a nuclear bomb to kill a fly. Most people will not even attempt to buy it.

I never thought about stretching this Transverter from 450 to 467 to see if an Icom IC-7300 can operate on the GMRS channels.

Nice challenge! 

 

[kidphc]

I never thought about stretching this Transverter from 450 to 467 to see if an Icom IC-7300 can operate on the GMRS channels.
Nice challenge! 
 
http://files.mygmrs.com/forums/monthly_2024_11/Screenshot2024-11-26at10_34_56AM.png.fed69e743e2b12525f670ff06adc64dd.png

You can certainly use a transverter. For 2m/70cm work it ended up with the ft991a. It can't be unlocked for GMRS.

I mean most of the GMRS users are looking at Baofengs be it a uv5r or a gmrs locked variant. So a 1k HF radio isn't normally on the radar. Plus GMRS gains nothing from having a waterfall

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Daedalus0101101 said:

 

So I totally agree you dont need a 7300 for gmrs.  If you’re already hitting the repeater with a ht maybe just add an antenna.  Something small and short with 3db gain.  I’d also be scared of 50w and an indoor antenna.  Especially a high gain antenna.  You can probably get this done for Nader $100 and the repeater will be able to here you great. 

[WRCZ387]

2 hours ago, Daedalus0101101 said:

Greetings everyone,

I am hoping to get an antenna recommendation for someone that lives in an apartment. I have a HT that can hit my local repeater, but people say that its a bit scratchy and I have to be right next to my window to get good signal for transmit. I am looking to get a mobile station ( home base station.....why are there no radios like the iCom 7300 for GMRS??) and want a good antenna with a ground plane already on it. I won't be able to mount the antenna outside and/or punch holes through the walls for a cable being in an apartment, so I'm looking for something that can be inside near the window.  Already have power and my mobile unit (at least my first one) picked out, just need an antenna. 

Thanks in advance

David

Maybe these will help:

https://www.jpole-antenna.com/shop/462-mhz-land-mobile-gmrs-j-pole-antenna/

You'll need to buy coax for it

https://dpdproductions.com/collections/gmrs-base-mobile-antennas/products/gmrs-blade-indoor-antenna

Comes with 18' of coax

[Lscott]

2 hours ago, Daedalus0101101 said:

Greetings everyone,

I am hoping to get an antenna recommendation for someone that lives in an apartment.  I have a HT that can hit my local repeater, but people say that its a bit scratchy and I have to be right next to my window to get good signal for transmit.  I am looking to get a mobile station ( home base station.....why are there no radios like the iCom 7300 for GMRS??) and want a good antenna with a ground plane already on it.  I won't be able to mount the antenna outside and/or punch holes through the walls for a cable being in an apartment, so I'm looking for something that can be inside near the window.  Already have power and my mobile unit (at least my first one) picked out, just need an antenna. 

 

Thanks in advance

 

David

You might want to look at something like the antennas in the below link.

https://n9taxlabs.com/shop/ols/products/dual-band-murs-gmrs-slim-jim-with-10-or-16-foot-cable

No ground plane required. You can try hanging it up on the window.

[WRUE951]

I'd go with a home brew J-pole or Ed Fong's J-Pole..     I actually have both that  i have used for my portable repeater and both are pretty impressive antennas..  Ed Fong is a bit more 'eye' pleasing.   

[WRTC928]

What about a mag mount intended for vehicles with a Midland ghost antenna on it? It will give you 3 dB gain and looks nothing like an antenna to the uninitiated. Make a pseudo pass-through as kidphc recommended, run the cable through it, and put the antenna on a metal sheet on a little table on the balcony or something of the sort. You can use a decorated serving tray for the ground plane. The thing is, you don't need to hit a repeater with a lot of power; it will come out the other end as 50 watts (probably) anyway. All you need to do is get a little more signal out than you do now, and an unobtrusive antenna attached to your HT will almost certainly do that. Use a ferrous tray for your ground plane, and the mag mount will keep the antenna from moving around. I use a 3 dB gain mag mount antenna on one of my vehicles and attach a HT to it and it definitely improves the signal. It won't blow anybody's doors off, but again, all you need to do is improve your signal getting to the repeater and a 3 dB antenna will (theoretically) double the effective signal. I won't link it because an Amazon link is about 900 characters long. Just search Amazon for Ghost Antenna and magnet mount base with NMO connection. It's less than $100 total.

[WRXB215]

13 minutes ago, WRTC928 said:

put the antenna on a metal sheet on a little table on the balcony

It will look just like a pepper shaker on the table. No one will know the difference.

14 minutes ago, WRTC928 said:

I won't link it because an Amazon link is about 900 characters long.

If you link to one or more words like this, it will be fine. Just highlight the words and then click on the little chain next to the quote marks above the text area.

[SteveShannon]

Something to be aware of is that base stations are not allowed to transmit on the 467 MHz main channels that repeaters receive.

c) 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable and control stations may transmit on these channels only when communicating through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in accordance with § 95.319(c). The channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz.

[WRTC928]

11 minutes ago, WRXB215 said:

It will look just like a pepper shaker on the table. No one will know the difference.

If you link to one or more words like this, it will be fine. Just highlight the words and then click on the little chain next to the quote marks above the text area.

Good to know! Thank you.

[Daedalus0101101]

On 11/27/2024 at 8:33 AM, SteveShannon said:

Something to be aware of is that base stations are not allowed to transmit on the 467 MHz main channels that repeaters receive.

c) 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable and control stations may transmit on these channels only when communicating through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in accordance with § 95.319(c). The channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz.

 

When I say base station, I am meaning a mobile unit that I am going to use like a base station.  I want to have a better unit at home to clear up the scratchy bit and sound more clear and legible.  I think its odd that its referred to as a Mobile unit though.   Obviously me saying an iCom 7300 is definitely overkill for GMRS, but it would be nice if someone made a unit in the style of it though.  Intended to be used primarily from a table or something.  I do plan on going for my AARL license at some point and it would be nice to have something like the 7300 that I can use for that but would also work on the GMRS frequencies. 

 

 

Thanks for the antenna suggestions guys.  I'll definitely give them a look.  I only plan to use about 20w from my apartment though.  40w when its in the car and the antenna is most definitely above me. 

[SteveShannon]

3 minutes ago, Daedalus0101101 said:

 

When I say base station, I am meaning a mobile unit that I am going to use like a base station.  I want to have a better unit at home to clear up the scratchy bit and sound more clear and legible.  I think its odd that its referred to as a Mobile unit though.   Obviously me saying an iCom 7300 is definitely overkill for GMRS, but it would be nice if someone made a unit in the style of it though.  Intended to be used primarily from a table or something.  I do plan on going for my AARL license at some point and it would be nice to have something like the 7300 that I can use for that but would also work on the GMRS frequencies. 

 

 

Thanks for the antenna suggestions guys.  I'll definitely give them a look.  I only plan to use about 20w from my apartment though.  40w when its in the car and the antenna is most definitely above me. 

Usage is what determines whether a radio is a base station, a mobile station, a fixed station, a control station, a repeater, or a handheld portable station. So while you use a mobile radio as a base station you have to follow the regulations for base stations.

The FCC will almost certainly never know or even care though, but I just thought you might want to know what the regulations say.

 

[WRQC527]

9 minutes ago, Daedalus0101101 said:

 

When I say base station, I am meaning a mobile unit that I am going to use like a base station.  I want to have a better unit at home to clear up the scratchy bit and sound more clear and legible.  I think its odd that its referred to as a Mobile unit though.   Obviously me saying an iCom 7300 is definitely overkill for GMRS, but it would be nice if someone made a unit in the style of it though.  Intended to be used primarily from a table or something.  I do plan on going for my AARL license at some point and it would be nice to have something like the 7300 that I can use for that but would also work on the GMRS frequencies. 

 

 

Thanks for the antenna suggestions guys.  I'll definitely give them a look.  I only plan to use about 20w from my apartment though.  40w when its in the car and the antenna is most definitely above me. 

Just so you know, the FCC's Part 95 definition of a base station:

"BASE STATION: A station at a fixed location that communicates directly with mobile stations and other base stations."

In other words, by simplex. If you are using a radio at a fixed location through a repeater, such as with a mobile radio on a power supply on your desk, the FCC considers that a "control station". 

"CONTROL STATION: A station at a fixed location that communicates with mobile stations and other control stations through repeater stations, and may also be used to control the operation of repeater stations."

[UncleYoda]

I think it's goofy to say a base station is a control station when using a repeater.  I don't know if the goofs are the ones interpreting it this way or the FCC for writing it like this.  One thing I can point out with the wording is base station is not mentioned in the control station definition.  My opinion is (1) a base station is a base station regardless of who you talk to, and (2) we can't resolve this ourselves to everyone's satisfaction - we need clarification from FCC.

[nokones]

On 11/27/2024 at 7:33 AM, SteveShannon said:

Something to be aware of is that base stations are not allowed to transmit on the 467 MHz main channels that repeaters receive.

c) 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable and control stations may transmit on these channels only when communicating through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in accordance with § 95.319(c). The channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz.

If a station that is located at a fixed location with a fixed base station type antenna, and transmits on a 467 main freq in order to communicate with another station such as a mobile, through a repeater, wouldn't that station become a control station? However, if that same station communicates direct to a mobile on a 462 main freq, wouldn't that station now become a base station?  And isn't all that compliant with the rule?

[SteveShannon]

59 minutes ago, nokones said:

If a station that is located at a fixed location with a fixed base station type antenna, and transmits on a 467 main freq in order to communicate with another station such as a mobile, through a repeater, wouldn't that station become a control station? However, if that same station communicates direct to a mobile on a 462 main freq, wouldn't that station now become a base station?  And isn't all that compliant with the rule?

I don’t know. Is communicating through a repeater enough to make it a control station?  
After looking up the definition I think you’re right. 
Here’s the definition of a control station:

Control station. A station at a fixed location that communicates with mobile stations and other control stations through repeater stations, and may also be used to control the operation of repeater stations.

Here’s the definition of a base station:

Base station. A station at a fixed location that communicates directly with mobile stations and other base stations.

 

[WRQC527]

3 hours ago, UncleYoda said:

I think it's goofy to say a base station is a control station when using a repeater.  I don't know if the goofs are the ones interpreting it this way or the FCC for writing it like this.  One thing I can point out with the wording is base station is not mentioned in the control station definition.  My opinion is (1) a base station is a base station regardless of who you talk to, and (2) we can't resolve this ourselves to everyone's satisfaction - we need clarification from FCC.

Steve and I simply quoted the actual FCC definitions of base and control stations. Goofy or not, that is exactly how they are written.

[Daedalus0101101]

Well its a good thing I plan on only using a repeater anyways then.  There is a repeater that I hit that's about 500 AGL and reaches out about 60miles ( or more).  I've used my HT to talk on it with people, but 5w and a not so great antenna from an apartment makes it a bit hard.  20w and a good antenna should do me just fine which is why I need a mobile as all HT GMRS are limited to 5w. 

[UncleYoda]

@Daedalus0101101 You seem to have it exactly backwards.  Using a repeater from home is where the difference of opinion lies.  A mobile in the car or a handheld with antenna attached directly to the radio (i.e. portable) are fine for repeater use.

[Daedalus0101101]

According to what some other people on here have posted

 

FCC's Part 95 definition of a base station:

"BASE STATION: A station at a fixed location that communicates directly with mobile stations and other base stations."

In other words, by simplex. If you are using a radio at a fixed location through a repeater, such as with a mobile radio on a power supply on your desk, the FCC considers that a "control station". 

"CONTROL STATION: A station at a fixed location that communicates with mobile stations and other control stations through repeater stations, and may also be used to control the operation of repeater stations."

 

 

My mobile unit will be a control station at that point. 

[WRUU653]

14 minutes ago, Daedalus0101101 said:

According to what some other people on here have posted

 

FCC's Part 95 definition of a base station:

"BASE STATION: A station at a fixed location that communicates directly with mobile stations and other base stations."

In other words, by simplex. If you are using a radio at a fixed location through a repeater, such as with a mobile radio on a power supply on your desk, the FCC considers that a "control station". 

"CONTROL STATION: A station at a fixed location that communicates with mobile stations and other control stations through repeater stations, and may also be used to control the operation of repeater stations."

 

 

My mobile unit will be a control station at that point. 

You got it exactly right. You’re good to go either way you use it. 

[WRTC928]

According to both theory and real-world testing (a rare occurrence) a more powerful radio won't typically increase your distance much, but it will usually give you a clearer signal at the same distance. Also according to both theory and real-world testing, a better antenna will usually do the same. Since what you need is a better signal, probably either would do the trick. An antenna is cheaper and less subject to failure than another radio. Furthermore, with a better antenna, you may discover some simplex traffic in addition to the repeater. The Ghost Antenna would work, or perhaps even something like a Nagoya NMO-HDG with some plastic flowers wrapped around it or some other form of disguise. My logic is this: I'm 99% certain you'll want a better antenna before too long no matter what radio you have. Getting the antenna out of the house is probably the most significant change you can make. Structures are a significant impediment to RF radiation. There's only one repeater I can reach from my home about 25-30 miles away. I can usually converse on it from my back yard and occasionally from my living room with an 8 watt HT but I can't hit it from the driveway with a 20 watt mobile and 48" antenna. In between is my house. With a better antenna, you may feel the radio you have is just fine for quite a while. Of course, funds permitting, you can certainly do both, but I suspect you're never going to be fully satisfied until you move the antenna out of the house. Stealth antennas are a whole thing in some forums, with a number of videos on YouTube dedicated to the subject. I'm sure you can find something that will fly below the radar. 

[WRYZ926]

Yes getting a good antenna AND getting it outside will make more of a difference. As @WRTC928 said, there are many ways to camouflage an antenna if needed. Even a good mag mount antenna on a cookie sheet will do so much better outside versus inside.

And I too have found that going from a 20 watt radio to a 50 watt radiate home does not increase the distance. I am using a Comet CA-712EFC with 30 ft of LMR400 coax at home and have tried both my Wouxun KG-XS20G and KG-1000G hooked to that antenna. What the extra power does is it allows me to be heard better on the farther repeaters.

My antenna is only 20 feet above the ground at the base and kind of under a maple tree. Now I would get out farther if the antenna was up higher and away from the tree.