Repeater Planning Series: “The Six Most Common Mistakes" [Contains Stupidity]

[intermod]

Planning a new repeater? What are the most common mistakes a new repeater owner makes? 

Below is Mistake #1.  Additional installments are forthcoming. 

Mistake #1: Using Mygmrs.com to Find a Clear Channel

You pick a channel from the Mygmrs Repeater Database having the least number of repeaters, or nothing immediately close by.  You end up causing interference (IX).  Other co-channel repeater owners (e.g., incumbents) become unhinged and pissed off.

Many existing repeaters, particularly those that have existed for decades, are not listed in Mygmrs.com. Often, these owners may not want the hassles of having multiple users, and prefer to avoid repeater kerchunker's, weak scratchy handheld radio users that are really annoying to listen to, and poorly performing radios (see Note 1 below).  Also, radio signals can travel 150+ miles with no obstructions, even portable radio signals.  There are possibly other repeaters just 50 miles away that are at a high elevation (or on a tall tower) that can hear your users just fine, causing IX.  Notice I said “your users” and not “your repeater”.  This will be discussed under Mistake #2.

(Note 1: The current trend in Cheap Chinese Radios [CCR] are models with unresolvable low transmit audio/volume, very poor quality audio [includes poor quality speaker/microphones] and improper default settings, like Roger Beeps.)

[tcp2525]

11 hours ago, intermod said:

Planning a new repeater? What are the most common mistakes a new repeater owner makes? 

Below is Mistake #1.  Additional installments are forthcoming. 

Mistake #1: Using Mygmrs.com to Find a Clear Channel

You pick a channel from the Mygmrs Repeater Database having the least number of repeaters, or nothing immediately close by.  You end up causing interference (IX).  Other co-channel repeater owners (e.g., incumbents) become unhinged and pissed off.

Many existing repeaters, particularly those that have existed for decades, are not listed in Mygmrs.com. Often, these owners may not want the hassles of having multiple users, and prefer to avoid repeater kerchunker's, weak scratchy handheld radio users that are really annoying to listen to, and poorly performing radios (see Note 1 below).  Also, radio signals can travel 150+ miles with no obstructions, even portable radio signals.  There are possibly other repeaters just 50 miles away that are at a high elevation (or on a tall tower) that can hear your users just fine, causing IX.  Notice I said “your users” and not “your repeater”.  This will be discussed under Mistake #2.

(Note 1: The current trend in Cheap Chinese Radios [CCR] are models with unresolvable low transmit audio/volume, very poor quality audio [includes poor quality speaker/microphones] and improper default settings, like Roger Beeps.)

Why would anyone be foolish enough to use a utility that is on the internet that is absolutely free and only gets updated when the crows fly upside down? This applies to all sites, not just this one. The onus is on you, not the site giving misinformation.

Only way to do it correctly is to do a site survey for a predetermined amount of time to be 98% sure you're not going to cause or receive interference.

[Raybestos]

Even the two methods above may not work at all times.  In my state, there is a clique that has maintained a GMRS repeater presence of sorts, for over a decade.  They are listed on MyGMRS.com.  For as far back as anyone I know remembers, they have been "members only".  They have always had a disclaimer to the general effect that they were not accepting new members due to concerns about potential overloading of their repeater in the event of an actual emergency.  The comical thing, is that I know people who regularly monitor their channel and have never heard any transmissions from them.  Others that have, heard very brief traffic maybe once or twice in years of monitoring.  Obviously, overloading is not a concern so why not just say, "It is our repeater and we don't want no dang outsiders on it", which is their prerogative?

Getting back on track, a while back, a guy put up another repeater with wide coverage on their operating channel.  He likely did the "listen for activity" thing and hearing none, decided to park his large, "network linked" repeater on their operating channel.  Had the guy done the right thing and left it as a stand-alone to benefit the area GMRS community, he probably would have been fine.  Instead, he piped in garbage from all around the country via some linking network and the existing, mostly silent, repeater guys had a cow.  The silent guys plus the owner of another repeater about 40 miles out were not happy and raised a stink.  This led to a frequency change of the newer networked repeater which despite claims to the contrary, is still tied to some network with regular traffic from 700+ miles away on it.  Had the new guy just left off the linked network garbage, the little bit of local traffic on the channel likely would have been tolerable to the legacy repeater guys.  The frequent obscenity, profanity, and other noise coming in through the network is likely what created the uproar.

 

[WRYZ926]

9 hours ago, Raybestos said:

Getting back on track, a while back, a guy put up another repeater with wide coverage on their operating channel.  He likely did the "listen for activity" thing and hearing none, decided to park his large, "network linked" repeater on their operating channel.  Had the guy done the right thing and left it as a stand-alone to benefit the area GMRS community, he probably would have been fine.  Instead, he piped in garbage from all around the country via some linking network and the existing, mostly silent, repeater guys had a cow.  The silent guys plus the owner of another repeater about 40 miles out were not happy and raised a stink.  This led to a frequency change of the newer networked repeater which despite claims to the contrary, is still tied to some network with regular traffic from 700+ miles away on it.  Had the new guy just left off the linked network garbage, the little bit of local traffic on the channel likely would have been tolerable to the legacy repeater guys.  The frequent obscenity, profanity, and other noise coming in through the network is likely what created the uproar.

It's a shame that happened like that. We decided right away not to even consider linking our GMRS repeater. We already have our 2m repeater linked to AllStar.

We don't have many rules outside of following the FCC regulations on our repeater. The three big ones are: no foul language, no discussing politics, and no business uses. We are strict about no foul language since there are kids that use our repeater on a regular basis. And politics usually leads to arguments.

After talking to another local GMRS repeater owner, we decided to follow his advice and not allow business use. He had a big problem with the big commercial farms wanting to tie up his repeater and we didn't want that to happen with ours.

We checked Repeater Book and My GMRS along with listening on all of the repeater channels first. We then reached out to the other GMRS repeater owners within a 50 mile radius of our location. SO far we have not had any issues with unlisted repeaters. We do occasionally pick up a different repeater on the other side of the state when there is a band opening.

 

Merry Christmas everyone.

[WRUE951]

MyGMRS is not an official GMRS Repeater management tool..  It's basically an App you use at your free will.. There is no official management system  for GMRS repeaters.  It's your responsibility to set up your GMRS repeater without interfering with other users.. If you are one of those unlucky person trying to set up a repeater in an area like New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Penn, where a single licensed GMRS user has decided to install dozens of repeaters and you can't find an open channel, well guess what, you are allowed to select whatever GMRS channel you desire and set your repeater use on it..  It's just up to you to make sure you don't interfere..  As long as you are not interfering, the other repeaters have no right to tell you to move or cease your operation..  Tell them to pound sand..   Just be nice..    Have Fun

[WRYZ926]

Unfortunately there are no coordination efforts nor any repeater counsels for GMRS like there is for amateur band repeaters. Plus the fact that GMRS repeaters are limited to just eight channels doesn't help. I am glad that we are in the middle of the state which made it easier to pick a channel. There are quite a few GMRS repeaters in the St Louis and Kansas City areas.

[intermod]

2 hours ago, WRUE951 said:

MyGMRS is not an official GMRS Repeater management tool..  It's basically an App you use at your free will.. There is no official management system  for GMRS repeaters.  It's your responsibility to set up your GMRS repeater without interfering with other users.. If you are one of those unlucky person trying to set up a repeater in an area like New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Penn, where a single licensed GMRS user has decided to install dozens of repeaters and you can't find an open channel, well guess what, you are allowed to select whatever GMRS channel you desire and set your repeater use on it..  It's just up to you to make sure you don't interfere..  As long as you are not interfering, the other repeaters have no right to tell you to move or cease your operation..  Tell them to pound sand..   Just be nice..    Have Fun

This is correct.   

After working with business frequency coordinators in the Part 90 bands (450-470 MHz) for many years, the same approach applies there - if you can't find a clear channel, you can still coordinate, license and install your repeater at the same site as another licensee operating on the same frequency (assumes neither is an FB8 class - centralized trunked).   Just don't interfere.   This often works out fine because the incumbent repeater is not being used (user moved on, or seasonal), or no longer exists, even though a license still exists.  It really is the best way to fully utilize spectrum.  However, the FCC's disservice was to lengthen the license term from five to ten years, resulting in tens of thousands to Peper" or non-existent repeaters.

 

[WRQI663]

20 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

The three big ones are: no foul language, no discussing politics, and no business uses. We are strict about no foul language since there are kids that use our repeater on a regular basis. And politics usually leads to arguments.

I agree about foul language and general nasty stuff......but have you forgotten which country you live in?

I will speak on any subject I want - politics included. A good and thoughtful argument  should not be censored. I will not 'walk on eggs' to satisfy some

big headed 'repeater' owner. Don't like it, turn yours off and I will turn mine on.

[SteveShannon]

6 minutes ago, WRQI663 said:

I agree about foul language and general nasty stuff......but have you forgotten which country you live in?

I will speak on any subject I want - politics included. A good and thoughtful argument  should not be censored. I will not 'walk on eggs' to satisfy some big headed 'repeater' owner. Don't like it, turn yours off and I will turn mine on.

I think the fairly common rule prohibiting political speech on a privately owned repeater is a good one that makes repeater use more enjoyable for most users. That has nothing to do with being “big headed” or forgetting which country a person lives in. The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution never has guaranteed that anybody can say anything anywhere at any time. When we use someone else’s repeater we need to be considerate of the rules.