Fixed Station vs Base Station?

[Radioguy7268]

A Fixed Station is one that's been repaired.

/s

[amaff]

13 hours ago, Radioguy7268 said:

A Fixed Station is one that's been repaired.

/s

I thought it was one that's been neutered

[WRKC935]

Wow, we doing THIS AGAIN?!?!?!!

Fixed stations are communicating with other fixed stations.  Linking aside.  If you have a repeater at a remote location, and a base station at your house, when you are talking on the REPEATER, that's fixed station operation.  If you go to a simplex channel and talk to a mobile or portable radio, then you are operating fixed BASE.  So ONE radio can operate in BOTH manners depending on how you are communicating.  The other situation is simplex between two base stations.  Both are 'fixed' or not mobile / portable. 

Reason for this is to NOT create unneeded interference on the frequency by operating at a power level above the minimum required to maintain reliable communications.  Repeaters and other base stations have added range due to their elevated antenna systems over a mobile or portable and of course have antenna's with more gain as well. 

This isn't anything new... commercial has had this same regulation for years.  The difference is in part 90 commercial they refer to the radio as a CONTROL STATION.  It's still a 'base radio'.  This is also how you get the maximum antenna height regulations for fixed base operations. 

[BoxCar]

11 hours ago, WRKC935 said:

Wow, we doing THIS AGAIN?!?!?!!

Fixed stations are communicating with other fixed stations.  Linking aside.  If you have a repeater at a remote location, and a base station at your house, when you are talking on the REPEATER, that's fixed station operation.  If you go to a simplex channel and talk to a mobile or portable radio, then you are operating fixed BASE.  So ONE radio can operate in BOTH manners depending on how you are communicating.  The other situation is simplex between two base stations.  Both are 'fixed' or not mobile / portable. 

Not quite, fixed stations are primarily used to pass DATA between two fixed locations i.e. flood monitoring stations and monitoring posts. "Base" stations are control sites which activate repeaters or fixed stations to report. Base stations are at either permanent or temporary locations and are used to pass both data and voice to other base stations or mobile stations either through repeaters or directly. This implies there are three classes of stations, fixed stations reporting to another, single, fixed station, control stations, which may serve as both control and base stations and mobile stations which have no permanent location.

[WRXL702]

4 hours ago, BoxCar said:

Not quite, fixed stations are primarily used to pass DATA between two fixed locations i.e. flood monitoring stations and monitoring posts. "Base" stations are control sites which activate repeaters or fixed stations to report. Base stations are at either permanent or temporary locations and are used to pass both data and voice to other base stations or mobile stations either through repeaters or directly. This implies there are three classes of stations, fixed stations reporting to another, single, fixed station, control stations, which may serve as both control and base stations and mobile stations which have no permanent location.

FCC Part 95 Subpart A - 95.303 Definitions:

Base station. A station at a fixed location that communicates directly with mobile stations and other base stations.
Fixed station. A station at a fixed location that directly communicates with other fixed stations only.

The Term "DATA" Is Not Referenced In These Definitions For The Type Of Transmission.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-A

 

[BoxCar]

4 hours ago, BoxCar said:

Not quite, fixed stations are primarily used to pass DATA between two fixed locations i.e. flood monitoring stations and monitoring posts. "Base" stations are control sites which activate repeaters or fixed stations to report. Base stations are at either permanent or temporary locations and are used to pass both data and voice to other base stations or mobile stations either through repeaters or directly. This implies there are three classes of stations, fixed stations reporting to another, single, fixed station, control stations, which may serve as both control and base stations and mobile stations which have no permanent location.

 

33 minutes ago, WRXL702 said:

FCC Part 95 Subpart A - 95.303 Definitions:

Base station. A station at a fixed location that communicates directly with mobile stations and other base stations.
Fixed station. A station at a fixed location that directly communicates with other fixed stations only.

The Term "DATA" Is Not Referenced In These Definitions For The Type Of Transmission.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-A

 

Notice, I stated the primary purpose is to pass data. I did not state a fixed station was data only nor reference nor imply that was their only use.

[WRUU653]

19 hours ago, WRKC935 said:

when you are talking on the REPEATER, that's fixed station operation

Fixed station. A station at a fixed location that directly communicates with other fixed stations only.
This statement would seem to indicate that a repeater is not a fixed station as it does not communicate with only fixed stations. Therefore talking to it is not the action of a fixed station. 

I will agree that this topic has been discussed for what seems an eternity. With some grasping the rules and others arguing the perceived vagueness. I would agree that for a radio service intended for friends and family the FCC could or should have written the rules for such. That said, all the debate is for what end I have no idea. Who is being affected negatively here? As Bill Murray stated in Meatballs it just doesn’t matter. 

[BoxCar]

1 minute ago, WRXL702 said:

So - Stating "The Primary Purpose Is To Pass Data" Is an Opinion For The Use Of Fixed Stations, Not Reflected In Definitions In Part 95.303.

WRKC935, In My Opinion Has The Correct - Explanation / Examples Of Base Stations vs Fixed Stations......

Actually, it is based on observation of processing many thousands of requests to the Commission for processing. l

[WRUU653]

7 minutes ago, WRXL702 said:

So - Stating "The Primary Purpose Is To Pass Data" Is an Opinion For The Use Of Fixed Stations,

No, it’s an example. 

[WRXL702]

4 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

No, it’s an example. 

Then Folks Should Refrain On Commenting "Not Quite" If They Are Siting An "Example / Opinion" Of Documented FCC Definitions.....

[GrouserPad]

On 4/26/2025 at 8:47 PM, WRKC935 said:

Wow, we doing THIS AGAIN?!?!?!!

Fixed stations are communicating with other fixed stations.  Linking aside.  If you have a repeater at a remote location, and a base station at your house, when you are talking on the REPEATER, that's fixed station operation.  If you go to a simplex channel and talk to a mobile or portable radio, then you are operating fixed BASE.  So ONE radio can operate in BOTH manners depending on how you are communicating.  The other situation is simplex between two base stations.  Both are 'fixed' or not mobile / portable. 

Reason for this is to NOT create unneeded interference on the frequency by operating at a power level above the minimum required to maintain reliable communications.  Repeaters and other base stations have added range due to their elevated antenna systems over a mobile or portable and of course have antenna's with more gain as well. 

This isn't anything new... commercial has had this same regulation for years.  The difference is in part 90 commercial they refer to the radio as a CONTROL STATION.  It's still a 'base radio'.  This is also how you get the maximum antenna height regulations for fixed base operations. 

Thanks a lot for your reply. It is helpful…... my bad for posing a question that must have been beat to death here. 

[WSHH887]

Relax. Every "hobby"  has subjects that come up from time to time and elicit opinions guaranteed to create chaos. Heck, after over a century of coexistence,  asking which is better .45acp or 9mm will result in weeks of debate on firearms forums. 

[WRKC935]

9 hours ago, GrouserPad said:

Thanks a lot for your reply. It is helpful…... my bad for posing a question that must have been beat to death here. 

Don't worry about it.  But you really should do a search on a topic or question before making a post.  People do come up with new questions every day.  But, there are also some things that have indeed been beat to death.

 

[LeoG]

On 4/11/2025 at 9:57 AM, Socalgmrs said:

Actually what was clairified about repeater linking by the fcc is linked over phone line and internet.   It is still and has always been ok to link via radio waves.  Just harder and more expensive to do. 
 

 

 

as far as it being in the rules.  THIS right here is why every one needs to read the rules BEFORE paying your $35 fees.  When you pay your fees you are swearing to the fcc that you have read AND understand the gmrs rules.  Ignorance is not an excuse. Just read. Do your own research.  1/2 the posts on this site and all over the web could be deleted if people would just do research before asking to be hand fed.   In this world no one has any excuse to be ignorant in anything.  

You sound like a sad ham.

[LeoG]

On 4/11/2025 at 10:32 AM, UncleYoda said:

Contrare is all people do on this forum and the whole internet - I don't want any amateur speculative interpretations.  I want the officials responsible to clarify.  Everything else is BS.  As far as EXTRAPOLATION, the regs should be written so we don't need to make up our own ideas of what we believe they mean.  That is exact;y the problem we have right now.  I wish I had a list of every BS explanation I've heard from people on this topic.

They write them this way so they can be "interpreted".  That way it can mean different things at different times.  Which is exactly what it shouldn't be.  And since these rules are for normal people, normal people should be able to read them and understand them without the need of lawyers and oiija boards.

[LeoG]

On 4/11/2025 at 3:28 PM, SteveShannon said:

In fact I am personally against linking repeaters for wide areas. I’ve said that numerous times. But what you and I posted are interpretations, not regulations. The regulations definitely prohibit using the telephone network and arguably prohibit using the internet or any other network for carrying GMRS communications. But I’ve never seen anything in the regulations that prohibit radio links. For someone who wants to do repeater voting schemes I could see it being done and I don’t think that the regulations prohibit it. 

As soon as you connect two radio links together it can be considered a network.

[SteveShannon]

25 minutes ago, LeoG said:

As soon as you connect two radio links together it can be considered a network.

Maybe, but I think that a good lawyer could argue against that.  FCC does define “Network Connection”:

Network connection. Connection of a Personal Radio Services station to the public switched network, so that operators of other stations in that service are able to make (and optionally to receive) telephone calls through the connected station.

[LeoG]

And the switch network use to mean mechanical telephone service.  Then it meant electronic telephone service, now it can mean both of those and internet.

I'm pretty sure they could reclassify it because that's what they do.

[SteveShannon]

3 hours ago, WRXL702 said:

Written Rules Look Self Explanatory To Me.

 

" In other words, repeaters may not be linked via the internet—an example of an “other network” in the rules—to extend the range of the communications across a large geographic area.  Linking multiple repeaters to enable a repeater outside the communications range of the handheld or mobile device to retransmit messages violates sections 95.1733(a)(8) and 95.1749 of the Commission’s rules, and potentially other rules in 47 C.F.R."

 

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

Although I am not a fan of linking, what you quoted is not the written rule.  That’s the FCC interpretation of the written rules.  It does reference the actual rules it interprets (95.1733 and 95.1749) however. 

[marcspaz]

56 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Although I am not a fan of linking, what you quoted is not the written rule.  That’s the FCC interpretation of the written rules.  It does reference the actual rules it interprets (95.1733 and 95.1749) however. 

 

 

^^^  This!  Exactly this!

 

There is nothing in the rules that explains 'why' the rule is what it is.  There are several conflicting parts and sub-parts, that I have pointed out in the past, that support that 'linking' as a whole is not prohibited.  Only a specific method is prohibited.  Whatever is not expressly prohibited is allowed.

 

The truth is, I may retire this year.  If I do, my time would be freed up enough to stand-up a linked repeater network and then wait to see if the FCC is up to a lively debate in Federal court.  I don't know if I will, but the opportunity would exist and lately I am feeling kinda spicy about government overreach.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I have no personal animosity toward anyone in the FCC for simply trying to do their job and I have no intent on purposefully and intentionally violating any federal laws or rules... but we need a court case to settle the debate.  All I have seen from everyone, including the FCC staff, is conjecture and opinion based on something that is NOT written, implicitly nor implied. 

[OffRoaderX]

"some people" are so funny, all trying to prove who's smarter over something that does not matter in any way - The FCC doesn't even care.

"some people" should bicker over something that actually matters.

[marcspaz]

2 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

"some people" are so funny, all trying to prove who's smarter over something that does not matter in any way - The FCC doesn't even care.

"some people" should bicker over something that actually matters.

 

Bickering implies that a counter position is taken because I care about the other persons opinion and how it reflects on me and my initial position.... which definitely is not the case. LoL

 

/wordsalad

[SteveShannon]

10 hours ago, WRXL702 said:

So - The FCC Authored The Part 95 Rules, But Cannot Interpret What They Wrote ?

All regulatory agencies interpret their rules to their favor, from the ATF to the other end of the list. FCC is no different. Unlike some of the other agencies they don’t seem to enforce their interpretations very often. 

10 hours ago, WRXL702 said:

Also, You Are Stating That The Mobility Division Of The WTB, Which Is An Authorized Division Of The FCC, Should Not Post Rules, Regulations Or Interpretations.

Don't Think So.

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-395324A1.pdf

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless-telecommunications

I have no idea how you reached such a conclusion, and it’s not worthwhile trying. I’m glad they post both the rules and the regulations . I even agree with many of their interpretations.

[LeoG]

We know all about the Chevron Doctrine.  Where the regulatory agencies decided they could be judge, jury, court and prosecutor of all decisions.  And then make sure all the "fees" are made payable to them.

[UncleYoda]

I come here for real info and rational topic-focused discussion.  I do not come here for all the trash talk regardless of how witty someone may think their comments are.  This topic isn't even about linking, let alone all the crazy stuff brought up.  I've decided not to post whatever good info I may get unless there's some place I can put it where it won't get trashed by smart-elec comments.