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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropospheric_propagation

I sometimes hear traffic from a GMRS repeater in Tulsa 110 miles away. I guess it's possible we have a good enough line of sight for that, but I've also wondered if sometimes atmospheric conditions are causing some sort of skip. If it were due to line of sight, I think I'd hear it more than once every 1-2 weeks.

I was surprised at how easy the Technician Test was after only 3 days of studying on HamStudy.org. That really is an awesome resource for anyone wanting to get their Amateur license. I ended up with a 34 out of 35 and it makes me wonder why I didn't do this sooner.

Why? There's nothing worthwhile to listen to on HF and you can't even join in the HAM games with an HT. A plain ole DB-20G would give you a lot more to receive and talk to. I know you're new, but you are over complicating the idea of communication by looking for features or gadgets that don't and won't matter when you really need comms.

I've been looking at some HTs that can do HF and saw these two. Does anyone have any experience with either and which one would you recommend? I know I'll not get the range out of either like I would a dedicated 10M base station with a good antenna but I'd at least be able to play around a bit and explore it to see if I'd want to invest in better equipment. If anyone has any other recommendations for a sub-$100 HT that'll do HF please let me know. Thanks and 73's.

As with GMRS, Get one up high enough (top of hill as a router or repeater) to increase line of sight and you'll get a LOT more distance than you expect. Battery-powered solar nodes used as repeaters and mesh expansion are smallish, fairly cheap, and require little maintenance. Having them run off a phone makes it real easy for the uninitiated to use them. Certainly looks less dorky to text via your phone than to use a handheld. Some nodes look like (and are no bigger) than an access card. It's just another mode of communication. I don't poo-poo any of them, be they RF or IP related, so to each his/her own.

A big change in atmospheric temps like in spring and fall mornings can also cause ducting. Low cloud cover during storms is another example. I live in Mid Missouri about an hour east of Columbia and 1 1/2 hours west of St Louis. When atmospheric conditions are just right we can hear the Pacific. Mo GMRS repeater just as strong as our GMRS repeater. Both are on the same channel and use the same tones. There has also been times that I have talked on the GMRS repeater 50 miles west of me with a guy around Springfield Il. Conditions have to be just right for that to happen. And that usually happens in the spring and fall due to temperature inversions. Another example happened last week. My brother and I both have UHF Allstar nodes. We were using the same frequency and tones since we live 19 miles apart and never had an issue until then. We use no more than 5 watts when using our nodes. That day there was a heavy storm in between us which was bouncing our low power signals so that I could hear him at 1 watt and he could hear me at 5 watts. We couldn't hear each other once the storm moved out. And yes I changed the frequency my node uses after that.

More likely tropospheric ducting which is caused by an atmospheric condition and affects UHF signals.

Not yet anyway. That could change at some point. People are doing it now regardless of the rules. If the practice continues, expands and no FCC enforcement action then we could see the FCC just throw in the towel again, like they did in 2017 rule changes with FRS/GMRS combo radio, and make it legal. Then the question will be what mode(s), power and where. Some have pushed the idea to add more channels to GMRS. Very likely won't happen. As it is the service has 7 nearly useless interstitial channels, 8 to 14, limited to narrow band, 0.5 watts and handheld units only with fixed antennas. Finding a better use for those, at higher power and use on mobile radios, would be equivalent to adding 7 additional channels, no extra spectrum required. I posted an opinion paper, based on a suggestion made in an old thread on this forum, these nearly useless channels could be the location for a dedicated home for a digital voice mode. Some won't like the idea of digital voice on GMRS, but hey for example, the FCC finally got around to adding FM to 11M CB radio. Took them long enough.

I think the difference here is you have a friend, if not more than one, using the Mesh that you need to check up on. (loved that "I'm calling the Cops" on the video) I can't think of anyone I know using it that I'd care to send or receive text messages from, even in a truly SHTF kind of event.

Same here. That was pre integrated circuits. Have soldering iron will travel.

DMR is digitized voice and reception depends on if the D to A decoder can receive the digital string with enough good bits or not. So, it's an either/or situation. You either decode the voice or you don't. The advantage is there is no fading as the transmitter moves away from the receiver.

That's why I don't get worked up over anyone using a ham radio on GMRS. If they keep to appropriate power and bandwidth, I don't care what radio they're using. I'm not the radio police, and if FCC doesn't consider it worth enforcing, neither do I. (TBH, I don't get worked up over someone in the mountains of Montana using 5 watts and wide bandwidth on FRS 10 either. They're not going to interfere with anyone else. Before I could get worked up about it, I'd have to be able to hear it. )

I played with encryption enough while in the Army. We used both SINCGARS and commercial radios from Motorola. All permanent party units other than 11th ACR/OPFOR used the commercial radios when I was stationed at NTC/Ft Irwin.

I have heard skip that I believe is coming from an airliner passing overhead. I was recently listening to gmrs channel 16, which is also the repeater downlink for a local repeater. I heard a person key up and give his position 186 miles from me. I suspect he was either on channel 16 and the signal bounced off the bottom of an airliner, or he was using a repeater locally and his uplink bounced. It is the second time in about a year I've had very similar experience.

do you know how many scanner folks that would love to crack encryption......

Play with it on LMR

We are in the process of removing the DMR capabilities on our 70cm repeaters since no one uses DMR. You will find that DMR and even the 1.25m band use will vary in different regions. This is true. It seems like you either get in with decent audio or you don't get in at all. Now that could be how the DMR was setup on our three repeaters. But it never impressed me. We are in the process of adding Allstar nodes to all three 70cm repeaters and our 2m repeater instead. The 70cm repeaters will be linked full time and we can link them to the 2m repeater as needed once everything is done.

Why would anyone assume their conversions are "private" when they key mic? Sure, most conversations aren't worth the effort of even listening to, let alone wasting the time to crack it.

Sadly, DMR and pretty much all digital modes are a passing fad. Way to many radio checks and people kerchunking. Plus, the audio quality isn't as natural and pleasing as anal-log. All this in an effort to save bandwidth. Thank goodness the FCC did something right and not allow digital on GMRS.

And if he needed to he could create a Repeaterbook account using his GMRS call sign.

Ahh, so I'll take the SSB channel off.

I am not aware of any mobile VHF/UHF radios that have SSB capabilities. You would have to get an all band/all mode radio AKA "shack in the box" that does HF, VHF, and UHF to get SSB capabilities on VHF/UHF. The other option is the Icom IC-9700 VHF/UHF all mode base radio but that is expensive. I would love to use 2m SSB but I don't need or want a shack in the box radio as I already have 4 HF radios as it is. And I can't afford the Icom IC-9700 at $1900.00

No you don't. Anyone can look up repeaters without having to log in or have a call sign. You only need a call sign if you manage a listed repeater.