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A 1/4 wave 6 inch 'hatpin' antenna every day of the week. If you don't like chrome, get one in black. Get a spare or two in case she runs through the car wash. Cost is about $6. Retail.

Below is general information on the Motorola DTR and DLR series 900MHz FHSS digital radios. I am a user of the DTRs and the DLRs and have become a serious fan of them because they are professional quality and work amazingly well. I own a small fleet of legacy DTR650 radios and a small fleet of DTR700 radios. I have also previously owned a small fleet of DLR1060 radios. DTR600/700: https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radios/commercial-business-two-way-radio-systems/on-site-business-radios/dtr-series.html DLR1020/DLR1060: https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radios/commercial-business-two-way-radio-systems/on-site-business-radios/dlr-series-digital-radio.html CPS download: https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radios/commercial-business-two-way-radio-systems/on-site-business-radios/dtr-series/dtr700.html#tabresource The Motorola Business Radio CPS is a free download from Motorola and programs all of their Business Radio models. CPS cable on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-HKKN4027A-Programming-Cable-Black/dp/B00EC2PV6A/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=motorola+HKKN4027A&qid=1613093281&sr=8-1 The same CPS cable is used for programming all of Motorola's business radios. The one exception is the legacy DTR410/550/650 models because they use a different CPS cable. No programming is needed to use these radios out of the box at the factory default settings. The DTRs and DLRs work with each other right out of the box at the factory default settings. Customization of settings and features requires the CPS. Some settings can be changed without the CPS. The fastest way to get some DTR and DLR radios talking to each other if they don't already do so is to reset all of them to the factory default settings and then go from there. You don't need the CPS or the cable to get started with the DTRs and DLRs. Motorola has made it insanely easy to get started with them. Motorola DTR550 case study: https://www.motorolasolutions.com/content/dam/msi/docs/business/_documents/case_studies/rutland_healthcare_case_study.pdf The Rutland Healthcare case study is a bit dated as the DTR550 was used. The legacy DTR410/550/650 models have been on the market since 2006 and were discontinued in November 2018, marking the end of a 12 year production run. Support for the DTR410/550/650 models end on November 30, 2023. The DTR600 and DTR700 are the replacement models for the legacy DTR410/550/650 models. DTR history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOTO_Talk The DTRs and DLRs are a spinoff from Motorola's MOTOTALK feature in several NEXTEL iDEN phones years ago. NEXTEL called this feature Direct Talk and is not to be confused with the DirectConnect PTT feature which worked through NEXTEL's iDEN network. The DirectTalk feature works PTT simplex phone to phone on 900MHz and uses FHSS. The killer app for this feature is for PTT use between phones when network service is spotty or unavailable and phones are close enough to each other to communicate. NEXTEL phones were popular with contractors and other professionals at jobsites and there was nothing more frustrating than the DirectConnect PTT feature would not work because one or more phones had no network service and phones were still relatively close to each other. The off-network DirectTalk feature provided a solution. The DTRs and DLRs use the same FHSS system but were coded differently from the phones to be incompatible and supposedly was done on purpose. The DTRs and the DLRs are the modern day implementation of the MOTOTALK platform. The legacy DTR410/550/650 models shared a common design with a NEXTEL phone during development and were originally part of the same design project until they spit apart to become separate products. Users of the legacy DTR410/550/650 models will notice that they are very NEXTEL-like in their behavior. The DTRs are commercial radios and loaded with features for business radio users. However, they often are too much "radio" for the average retail business user. Retail users just want a small radio with no keypad and display and minimal features to keep it simple. The DLRs are Motorola's answer to that. DLR = Digital Lightweight Radio, according to Motorola. The DLRs have the features of the DTRs, minus a display and keypad and channel capacity but are compatible with the DTRs. The DLRs were released in the summer of 2015. The DLRs are incredibly easy to use. The DLRs appear to be marketed toward users of the UHF analog CLS series analog business radios that are very popular for retail use. The DLRs seem to make sense for the target market. Some people don't like the large round PTT button on the front of the radio because they are so accustomed to PTT being on the left side of the radio. The DLRs are smaller than most FRS bubble packs and the front button makes sense for the very small size and thin form factor. A DLR radio is comfortable to hold in either hand and a thumb press activates PTT. I found the round front PTT button makes perfect sense for such a small radio. Old retired NEXTEL phones with the off-network DirectTalk feature can be found very cheaply on eBay. The i355 is a good model to look for. There are several videos on YT demoing their use. Factory fresh new batteries are still available for them. I know that because the legacy DTRs use the same battery and I recently re-batteried my DTR650 fleet. The one gotcha with old NEXTEL phones is they need to have a SIM card in them that was previously activated on an iDEN network to activate the DirectTalk feature. The MOTOTALK platform is an ID-based system and each phone or DTR/DLR radio has its own unique 11-digit Private ID, sort of like an Electronic Serial Number (ESN). In the DTRs and DLRs, this is ID loaded by Motorola at the factory and is not changeable by the end user or with the CPS. For private talkgroups and private 1 to 1 calling, individual radios only know each other by their 11 digit Private ID. NEXTEL phones with the DirectTalk feature form the 11-digit Private ID from 1 plus the area code and phone number that was assigned to the phone when it was activated on the network. This is why an old NEXTEL phone must have a previously activated SIM card in it to enable the DirectTalk feature. DTR/DLR FHSS on 900MHz: The DTRs and DLRs use a hopset of 50 frequencies spread across the entire 902-928MHz band and spend no more than 90ms on any given freq in the hopset. The DTRs make about 11 hops per second. The digital modulation on a given freq in the hopset is according to an 8-level modulation scheme. The occupied BW on a given freq in the hopset is around 26 kHz. Motorola's VSELP vocoder is used. VSELP is what NEXTEL phones used. Per FCC 15.247, an FHSS device operating in the 902-928MHz band must use a minimum of 50 frequencies in the hopset and output power is limited to 1W (+30dBm). The legacy DTRs were FCC certified at 890mW (+29.5dBm). The DTR600/700 models were FCC certified at 830 mW (+29.2 dBm). The DLRs were FCC certified at 880mW (+29.4 dBm). The few tenths of a dB under the +30dBm legal limit is to account for measurement uncertainty and slight variation in power output from unit to unit and not exceed the 1W (+30dBm) legal limit. The power numbers in the FCC certs reflect what was measured from the individual sample submitted to the accredited test lab for cert testing. My DTRs: I own a small fleet of legacy DTR650 radios and a small fleet of DTR700 radios. The DTR650 has been around since 2006 and was discontinued in November 2018 when the DTR600/700 models were released. The DTR600 and DTR700 models are the replacement for the legacy DTR 410/550/650 models. The DTR600/700 programs a little differently from the legacy DTRs but are fully backward compatible. I have also owned a small fleet of DLR1060 radios which also work with the DTRs. I later sold my DLRs to a friend for his business as I traded up to the DTR700 and kept my DTR650 fleet. At first he wasn't sure what he was going to use them for except maybe as rental radios for his customers but now he and his employees use them all the time around the office and at jobsites. The DTRs are my professional quality digital replacement for GMRS/FRS for local on-site simplex type use with family and friends. I never got them to set any range records but they work amazingly well and are capable of outperforming conventional Part 90/95 UHF portables on simplex. They totally blow FRS away. Where they beat other radios is when working inside buildings. Where they blow all others away is when aboard cruise ships. People who have used them on cruise ships report having full ship coverage on all decks compared to a pair of 4W UHF commercial portables on GMRS simplex which had trouble penetrating more than about 2 decks. Like when inside buildings, the ship is much more open at 900MHz compared to 462/467MHz (GMRS/FRS) and VHF MURS. The ship represents a compartmentalized metal enclosure with many reflections created. The many reflections inside the ship actually helps at 900MHz and the FHSS operation causes the individual hot spots and dead spots to hop around as the frequency hops. The FHSS operation effectively stirs the modes so to speak as the frequency hops. A coworker once asked me why not just use FRS? My answer was that I have already been doing that since FRS was created in 1996 and longer than that as a GMRS licensee (KAE9013) since 1992 and using good quality commercial gear. I want an all digital solution that is higher quality and more professional than FRS. The fact that they are completely scanner proof and can be made very secure via private talkgroups and private 1 to 1 calling comes as a bonus. While technically not encrypted, they can be made very secure. They are not monitorable on any consumer grade receiver (i.e., scanner) so don't even bother trying. I have also been bit by the digital radio bug as a ham (N1DAS) and want to use digital radios. I still have GMRS/FRS and MURS as a backup and for interoperability with non-DTR/DLR users but they are no longer my default go-to modes local on-site simplex use with family and friends. Aside from occasional light use of FRS with my young nephews when they come to visit, I hardly use GMRS/FRS at all anymore. I love these radios for local on-site simplex type use. My wife loves using them too when we are out shopping or doing whatever. She is not a ham but totally gets it when it comes to having radios to stay in touch. She has told me that she specifically DOES NOT want to use an FRS bubble pack radio. She much prefers using the DTR radios and wants to use only the good stuff (LOL) when we chitchat on the radio.

And you can get them that mount in a 3/8" hole.

What @Radioguy7268 said ++

The TK-3173's are the same as the TK-3170's except they also do trunking, which for GMRS you don't care about anyway. Both use the same software to program them, KPG-101D Version 2.40. http://www.secomwireless.com/KWLIT/LIT_TK-3173.pdf I really never consider the inclusion of a battery pack that great of an extra value unless the seller states it's new. I have at least a dozen used Lithium Ion battery packs that fit the above radios, from past purchases, and several more Kenwood models. I'm in the process of testing them for capacity using an "electronic load" with a built-in battery test feature. So far the best pack tested at 79% of the spec's on the back of the pack while the worse so far is at 23%. The typical figure of 80% of new rating is generally considered the EOL, end of life, for a battery pack. This is the equipment I'm using for the pack testing. https://www.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDL1020X-Programmable-Electronic/dp/B07RS2B8VT The packs are tested at a "C/5" rate with the low cutoff voltage of 6.00 VDC. There isn't much variation in capacity if a lower discharge rate is used with Lithium batteries. The 6.00 VDC cutoff is where the Kenwood HT's will shut down so there is no point in testing to a lower voltage.

I will second Radioguy

Words of wisdom. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Most likely they do. I have some Kenwood TK-3160's and the some what newer replacements for them the TK-3360's. They definitely will do repeaters along with wide and narrow band on a per channel basis. The programming is fairly easy but you do have to understand what all the options do in the radio. For that you can read through the help file for the programming software. For a simple to operate radio you can't beat these. http://www.longislandradio.com/Kenwood%20Product%20PDFs/Portable/TK-2160_3160.pdf https://www.kenwood.com/usa/Support/pdf/TK-2360_3360.pdf If you buy one be VERY CAREFUL which sub type you get. These radios come in several different frequency ranges on UHF. You want one that covers at least the 462 MHz to 467 MHz range. With only 16 channels this isn't a big limitation since channels 8 to 14 the power is limited to 0.5 watts and narrow band only. Not really that useful. That leaves 15 GMRS channels left. You can program those in the radio with one spare memory slot left over.

I had big gains going from a 1/⁴ to 1/2. Looking at fold over super gainers now. You have to note that a puck antenna if it doesn't clear a roof rack, is going to be a poor performer. You never said on what type of car this would be going on.. I would think a ⁵/8 on a hatch mount would work better. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Please report if you do try one. Because of a changed mounting location we can't attribute the performance completely to the Laird Phantom but there was a decrease in communication distance once installed on my friend's vehicle compared to the tiny mag mount his mxt275 came with. The MNO mount make it an easy swap when the wife isn't looking...

How's about a fold over or a cap. You put the antenna when you have the car. Take it off when she has it? Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

No programming is needed to use the DTRs and DLRs with each other right out of the box at the factory default settings. Customization of features and settings requires the Motorola Business Radio CPS and is a free download from Motorola. Some features and settings on each model can be changed without requiring the CPS. The CPS cable is around $35 on Amazon. The same CPS and cable programs all of Motorola's business radios (RDV/RDU series, RM series, RMM series, etc.). The one exception is the legacy DTR410/550/650 models use a different CPS cable. You can download and install the CPS and play around with it and explore the DTR/DLR features and settings. The latest version of the CPS is R08.02 and programs all of the older models. You don't need a particular version of the CPS to program an older radio. Just use the latest CPS version. The Motorola Business Radio CPS can be downloaded from here: https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radios/commercial-business-two-way-radio-systems/on-site-business-radios/dtr-series/dtr700.html#tabresource There is no "pairing" of DTRs/DLRs like there is with Bluetooth devices. They pair up with each other on the fly with each PTT press. They do have to first be on the same frequency hopset and talkgroup ID in order to work with each other. A transmitting DTR/DLR listens for an acknowledgement from a receiving DTR/DLR radio during the NEXTEL-like PTT "chirp" talk permit tone to sync up to allow transmission to continue. When in range, transmission simply continues. When out of range, transmission stops after the PTT chirp and emits a warning beep indicating the call failed. The beep is a soft "do-do-doot" sound on the DLRs and DTR600/700. A DTR600/700 will also display a Call Failed message. The legacy DTR410/550/650 models will scream at you like an old NEXTEL phone and display a User not Available message. The end result is you will always know that you are in range and your transmission was heard and acknowledged by another radio. This makes it easy for range testing because you don't need two people for "Can you hear me now?" testing. You can leave one radio on the dining room table at home and then take the other radio with you and go for a drive and press PTT to see where you get connect hits. I have found people tend to use these radios right out of the box at the factory default settings, like FRS bubble packs. I have customized the programming in my DTRs but I purposely kept the factory default public talkgroups in my programming to listen to and talk to defaulted radios. I have private groups in my programming to keep my DTRs private when I want that. I have monitored activity on the default public groups in my travels when passing through major retail areas. The local Costco Wholesale near me uses DLR radios at the factory defaults and I can hear them when I'm in range. They are amazing radios.

Unsolicited comment: midland sells a heck of a lot of radios so it is likely they have quite a lot of influence over whoever is manufacturing the radios for them. There is at least a chance, that they own or have some kind of stake in such a business and some other radios are offshoots of their efforts or directions. I'm thinking that we, the people on this forum may not totally be in the mainstream when wanting to connect a computer to the GMRS radio in our Jeep or whatever. If I was Midland, having to certify, market and support these types of radios I doubt customer low-level programming is something I would find advantageous. I'd want a fool-proof, reliable radio with compatible accessories. having said that, I want programming access to my MXT400 but to be sure, I have not run into real limitations with it yet. I'm going to guess it is transmitting in the wide band mode on repeaters just because it sounds strong. With my suboptimally mounted Midland 6db whip antenna, yesterday I reached a repeater 40+ miles away. im not bashing commercial radios but I'm not dissatisfied in having purchased a nice clean new radio from Midland directly with super fast service vs me having to dig the Cooties out of some icky old taxi cab radio. sorry for the rant but sometimes a different point of view can be worth considering.

Used DTR's seem pretty tough to come by at a cheap price. At least, in the Ebay world. They certainly do seem to have a following. I've traded in a few from Construction and Quarry sites where guys bought them without realizing that they couldn't talk to existing conventional VHF/UHF Digital radios they already had. Similar to Retevis' advertising people, they had confused DMR Digital with FHSS 900 MHz Digital. FHSS is neat stuff when they're picking out usable signals from low, low down into the weeds of the noise floor - all while hopping around at 100+ times per second, and avoiding interference on the fly.

Thank scorpion1200, he asked me to add it. It's a great idea, I love the DTR/DLR radios and interested in anything fresh in the 900 MHz realm.

The exact cable length does not matter. Shorter is better. The only exception would be if you were using a matching network on the radio end of the cable. But still, it would have a random effect... as long as your radio is pretty close to nominal 50 ohms (non reactive Z) I won't get into smith charts so just trust me. Pasternack makes custom cables and Digikey might also do customs. Not cheap but maybe worth it for the quality etc. Digikey would be cheaper than Pasternack. Keep in mind you could use a much heavier cable outside and run something smaller for the last few feet coming into the radio. Mix and match can make sense. Vince

I've been collecting HT's for the past year or two. If I find a good deal on one I can't help myself. I have enough to equip a small army.

Had one. Parts kept falling off, and when I could do the Flintstone brakes through the floorboard it was time to scrap it.

I would offer one tip, and there is bound to be disagreement on this, but... As you read how different groups have put together their emergency communications plans, be very wary of those with a layered structure and in particular those that have a hierarchy like: FRS -> GMRS -> ham. Those plans inevitably are built on some level of unproven assumptions (i.e. prejudice). On the other hand, pay heed to plans that start with an analysis of need and and capability and then match the plan to that. The El Dorado California plan seems to be a good example of what to look for. BTW, keep in mind that since a good plan reflects local abilities, needs, finances, etc., what works in one community may not work in another. But, those one-size-fits-all plans are unlikely to work well anywhere. So, if you see a plan that sounds good to you, you might want to ask how they came up with that plan. The answer to that question could be worth far more than the plan itself.

There is a time for talking and a time for listening. As my talking is worth .02 cents listening is worth .98 cents. I've been using a GTX1050 to listen for some time, it does have long range listening capabilities. So far it's all been usual chatter between old guys stuck at home solving the worlds problems lol, I'm getting to know them and that maybe of some use someday. No news is good news and there has been no news I've heard on gmrs channels to speak of yet. I'm not sorry I purchased the GTX1050, it has its applications and does have a decent short range ability to speak, if I need help I need it from someone close by, it does that. . The GTX1050 receives signals from a good distance and has a good battery life. 2 things I think are the most important in a hand held. Like most things there really isn't a one size fits all. I'm sure I will end up owning several hand helds before I find that one go to device. I do feel a sense of urgency, the learning curve on finding the right tool this time will have to be short. Why I just joined here.

You know, I can’t imagine having just one radio for GMRS, if for no other reason that to be able to confirm that other radios in the arsenal are operational. For me, given that GMRS is first and foremost a second means of family comms, having multiple radios is a practical necessity. There is always a spare radio around to use for verifying the others are working. Welcome to GMRS. Michael WRHS965 KE8PLM

Make sure in your programming that you have the bandwidth set to WIDE. Otherwise I would get it's hardware (feedline/antenna) or transceiver (needs tuned up by a shop with the proper equipment). Make sure your antenna is installed correctly and you have a good ground at the antenna and transceiver.

Reynolds Wrap Heavy Duty aluminum foil. Ok, seriously, simple a/c cords do not usually present an RFI problem unless you have some devices that require a ground, but that are not grounded. Motors can be a source of noise. But, at the signal levels you are looking for, the frequencies you are listening to (uhf) and the use of FM rather than AM, your local environment is not likely to have a significant impact on your reception. The case where you might find problems would be trying to receive very weak “short wave” signals on a small radio with the built-in antenna. If you want better reception, the best thing you could do would be to setup an outdoor antenna, and the higher, the better. You do not need anything fancy or expensive, even a DIY 1/4 wave dipole would make a huge difference. (google for build a uhf antenna)

For all of you who are due to renew soon .... In accordance with Murphy's Law the fee reduction will take effect the day after you renew.

No disagreement. Only a reminder to readers of a point @Jones made earlier. There is a place for thin cables, particularly in a mobile environment. Also, in a case where the radio is at a window and the antenna line goes out the window and a few feet up to an antenna. Noted in these forums before, but always important to keep in mind: Perfect is the enemy of good. If someone deployed 50 feet of RG58 to their antenna and can reach all the repeaters and mobiles they want, then that is probably a good time to stop.

25-35 ah battery will give you hours of 50w use. If you go 5w or 15w, you can use a smaller 10-15 ah battery and still run for several hours. I have a 100 ah SLA AGP battery that I can run a 100w radio for 11-12 hours at 50% duty cycle. My battery weighs almost 70lbs, so unless you need it, I wouldn't go that large at all.