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Yup. Talking face to face you get to read the other person's body language and not form your opinion on what just come out of the mouth or the fingers on the keyboard. Some people say things in jest, but you can't tell unless you read their body language. There is a lot of nonverbal communications that's lost when using messaging apps etc. Maybe that's why this county is going to crap. People don't talk to each other in person so much any more.

Coverage area from a radio varies little when you use 15W or more up to the 50W maximum allowed. The biggest gains aren't in how much power is fed to the antenna, but how well the antenna performs. The two key things in your antenna choice are location and loss. Because the radiated signal from the antenna travels in a virtual straight line, the higher on the vehicle the antenna is mounted, the better the range. The second is signal loss due to both the antenna and the coax cable feeding the antenna. Your antenna has a resonant frequency where it works the best. Going above or below that frequency introduces loss as the antenna isn't as efficient. The coax used to feed the antenna is also a source of loss. No coax is highly efficient at GMRS frequencies but different cables perform better than others. The piece of equipment needed to measure loss most use is an SWR/Power meter. SWR or Standing Wave Ratio is the amount of power reflected back to the transmitter from the antenna and this increases the further you go from the resonant frequency. This loss is added to the loss from the coax meaning a decrease in the amount of power put into the radiated signal. Loss is measured on a logarithmic scale stated in dB or decibels. In practice, you want the SWR to be as low as possible at the frequencies you use, usually less than 1.5:1. SWR measurements of up to 2:1 is considered acceptable but the lower the better. There are numerous calculators on the Internet that will show you the loss from both SWR and coax.

Fair points. There are several people I know around here (where I live) that work in construction related jobs, some are crane operators, some do siding work, glass, etc, but they all use inexpensive Midland FRS/GMRS bubblepack radios from Walmart. We usually get together on a weekly basis, and they've shown unusual interest in the Motorola stuff I carry, but then I am the first person to tell them its just not worth the hassle, nor the cost. I keep telling them that if the Midland gives up the "smokey ghost", just go get another one, and there will be a lot of "giving up the ghost" before you can break even with one XPR7550e (especially now given the pricing of things) But then again, these guys don't need 50+ miles range, they aren't building digital interconnect systems, have no interest in a GMRS license, nor a HAM, and let alone acquire a membership in this forum, nor any of the other radio sites either; which clearly shows that they are not interested in the radio hobby at all, not even a hint. They use cellphones and don't think for a moment about using a radio to communicate with their family, friends, or their cat. Now, it is probably safe to assume that the people who come to this forum, and become members after getting the GMRS license, are present or future/potential radioaficionados (people who like radios and/or have shown interest in them), well, provided they can endure the rigors of figuring things out in the beginning, and dealing with not so great ranges like the "movies" promise you'll have, etc... and for that I feel its just best to not sugarcoat the reality of things: If you want performance, you'll have to pay to play at some point: be it with higher grade equipment, or paying up for a rental space on a tower, a better antenna, filters, etc. Sometimes it just feels (to me) that the more experienced members only push for the cheap stuff, all the time, (which might be okay for some, fair point) but perhaps should also convey the other points you've mentioned as well: the points about the higher tier brand radios; maybe even hinting the new GMRS operators that if they really want to go all in, they'll probably have to go the extra mile, or invest in higher tier equipment, learn a few things, etc. That is all. G.

gonna show my age on one of these, but for phone I like 20/40 meters, for digital I like old school AX25 packet radio....Not many around these days but I liked running the old style BBS. Winlink works great for Email on HF in a pinch.

No worries. I'm sure it's something I did wrong. At least there will be a sad GMRS expert that will tell me before long. LOL Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk

I'm honored to be among Jeeps and radios! I have an MXT575 - if it weren't for Spaz, I'd be talking to myself more than I already do.....that said, I only use GMRS while I'm driving, which is only a few hours per week; thing is, i only seem to hear folks sometimes...other times, I don't hear much of anything. And, all that said - had the Jeep down by the Potomac last weekend...

You are certainly right, and I knew that as well...just had a brain cell issue at the time.

LOL No, it's mounted to the vertical fixed window at the back of my truck's cab. (I'm new, not dumb!) (I hope...)

I did not know that... That is a very handy piece of info and may be a good compromise. Kiel / OP... definitely checkout this YouTube channel. I think this may be the "Hobo" in question... https://www.youtube.com/c/NotaRubiconProductions <Spaz giggles in radio geek>

You need an RF Field Strength Meter that can read the magnetic and electric fields at X # of meters from the antenna and compare the output to another antenna install on the vehicle with a direct-coupled antenna. They are about $400 for a meter worth buying. You also need an antenna and coax cable analyzer. They can measure cable and connection losses. Good one will even tell you exactly how electrically and mechanically long a cable is. Expect to spend about $550-$600 for a meter worth buying. EDIT: Forgot to add, there is likely such small loss anywhere in that path (since its in a car and the runs are so short), that there is likely no room for any measurable improvement. Even if you make a measurable improvement, there will likely be no practical improvement that will be distinguishable by the operators on either end.

So, a couple of problems with your wants/needs. To the best of my knowledge, there is no GMRS radio with a remote head AND is water and dust resistant. I spent months researching different radios and didn't find one. The other is... the power has very little to do with how far your signal can be heard and how distant a signal you can hear. It just so happens that I am a power junkie, so I own a couple of 50 watt radios, but several friends of mine have 15 watt radios and they can't hear me any further than I can hear them. 15w vs 50w, the "usable communications" range ends at the same distance in almost every instance I personally have tested. So, while the additional power may help a bit with filling in some holes in coverage, I wouldn't necessarily make that a deal breaker for you. With that said, in my own personal opinion, the two best new over the counter 50w mobile radios on the market are the KG-1000 and the Midland MXT500. The KG-1000 has a remote head and is "feature rich", but it is not dust or water resistant and will take a bit to learn to use compared to a more simple radio. The MXT500 is dust and water resistant, has many advanced features for experienced users but is very easy to use out of the box. However, this is a solid body radio with no detachable head unit. I am a ham radio operator and I have a tone of experience with advanced feature radios, and I absolutely love the KG-1000, but I wheel my Jeep with no roof and doors, and I fold down the windshield. I bought the MXT500 and I removed my amateur radio equipment from my Jeep for the season. If Jeep life is a concern, that really would be the model I recommend, too. I'll get a photo of it in the Jeep later tonight. I let my son take the Jeep to work, so I don't have access to it right this second... but this is how I wheel my Jeep. Primary and Secondary GMRS Antenna (Secondary is in the back for when the windshield is folded down.

As for emergency use: any band/frequency of choice is good so long you know what you are doing. You don't use 900Mhz to talk across the globe, and you don't use 20 meters to talk to a portable 1 1/2 miles down the road. A radio is only as capable/useful as the person who is listening on the other side. If there is nobody listening, then a radio its as useless as bringing an "accordion to war"... G.

I agree with nearly all of this and I especially appreciate the tone much more than the one you typically take against CCRs and “shitty Wouxuns”, which comes across as more of a condemnation of the people who buy them. We should be able to discuss the things that make radios great without needing to constantly denigrate less expensive radios and all who own them. I’d like try a high end Motorola someday to see what it’s like. Instead I have a really nice Garmin that works best for my purposes with it’s built in mapping of other Garmin users and I have Yaesu and Alinco analog/digital handhelds for 2m/70cm. I did buy a couple Baofengs to see what all the hoopla was about and learn Chirp, and they work, but I rely more on the other radios. The Baofengs are good to give the grandkids. I also have some older Midland GMRS/FRS handhelds and a pair of Motorola Talkabouts that were their highest power bubble pack radios at the time. But I don’t have a Wouxun, yet. Thanks for the pleasant post.

Yep, UV5R is just the bottom of the barrel, I think the BF-888s is a better radio b/c its cheaper. Those UV5R radios drop a whopping -27 dBm in RX desense when exposed to strong RF interference... I owned a Wouxun KG-UV6D back in the day, which also was one of my first radios, BTW, along with a bunch of GT-3, a Puxing with crossband, an UV-82. Around the same time I also purchased my first Kenwood TM-V71a as base. Range wasn't that great from base to portables, well, until I got my first TH-F6a, and somehow range improved quite a bit, I was able to reach a lot further in congested Detroit outer suburbs vs. any of the other radios I had at the time (10 miles, although spotty coverage, vs less than 2), that was including the Wouxun, and the Puxing, which both were some of the better CCRs at the time, in fact, I think the Wouxun still is but anyhow, the GT-3 (an UV5R clone) range was literally measured in tenths of a mile. At the time I had no idea about what dynamic sensitivity was, nor what receiver desense meant, selectivity, etc, all I remember reading in the forums was a call for more sensitivity, buy the latest and greatest CCRs, I remember the disparage and hatred towards Motorola, to avoid them b/c they'll send black SUVs to my door if I tried to use their equipment without license, and to top it off was that I'll get a mega fine if the FCC found out I didn't have a license.... and so I did: I followed the "experts" advice to the letter: Radios had to have the highest sensitivity in the brochure, I avoided Motorola like the plague, got my GMRS license to avoid those hefty fines and doubled down in CCRs... Unfortunately following the "experts" advice didn't get me very far. B/c most "experts" weren't concerned about explaining what a radio system required to have long reach, or to be reliable, nobody ever explained to me you how you can compare receiver performance, taking opinions out of the equation... As a noob I kept hearing the same talking points: the feedline is very important, antenna is the most important component on the system... but nobody gives you a clue as to how the heck do you evaluate antennas, how you measure the quality of a feedline?... or what the heck is desense, or this or that? So you are left with trusting the most vocal and the best bro-science members in the forum. Anyhow... need to work on my existence outside of this forum now... G.

Holy cow, "some people" are now here, the perfect thread. -If you buy a CCR, Santa will leave you some coal for X-mas... @marcspaz100% agree with your statement... once you leave the internet and talk to people, directly, most people are actually real nice... I know, shocker... G.

Yeah, DMR does sounds good, but a bit funky. My issue is with those who know better but run digital voice anyway simply because they can and screw the rules. They set a bad example for everyone. Most people honestly want to follow the rules. The few who have the “don’t give a sh*t” mindset, believing the FCC will never enforce the rules, harbor a very narcissistic view where their wants are more important and don’t care who else has to put up with the mess their actions cause. That’s what ruined 11M through the 70’s and 80’s, linear amplifiers, free-banding etc. as an example. Now some of those idiots have discovered GMRS.

We have spent many years working ten meter FM repeaters from around North America and one in the USVI while mobile and it because the band opens most days, an eighth-wave antenna is short and fairly efficient, low power is fine because good repeaters have lots of receiver gain, the audio has FM clarity, it does not distract the driver, and we can speak to regulars every day from around the state who are too close to contact by skywave but too far to contact by direct wave.

I agree they may be a bit more, but $150+/- for a 15 watt mobile in either HHCH or not is expensive when folks are looking. Its simple. I had bought a DB-20 for my father and he hated it. He came from CB and just wanted a channel number and easy to change PL. The 115 was the perfect fit for him, then when my mother grabbed a new Jeep she wanted something with just the head. The 275 fit that bill. I run the 115 on all my tractors and utility vehicles. Its simple rugged to some extent and cheap. And anyone can pick up the mic and talk. That's the benefit Midland has. I agree features are lacking but as said a real radio person will grab another devise. Myself its an APX. But as far as simple the Midland is what works. This weekend my Brother in law was here with his side by side. I grabebd a couple midlands from my box of junk and handed him one to use while we rode around. Simple and effective. When we got back he got on Midlands site and ordered the 115 bundle with mount and antenna for his sxs. I guess I am a bit biased to Midland for GMRS being my first GMRS rig was a midland (xstal radio I may add) that I had to wait 3 months for from the radio shop after giving a copy of our license to the vendor before he would order it..... Times have changed....but Midland is still the leader in the market and will continue to be for the simple folks who just want to order a radio and use it. Anyway we are way off the XTS5000 topic so I'll stop here. The XTS is a rock solid performer for UHF. If you can find a Vehicle Adapter and use the antenna, speaker and mic you will have a slick little setup. Ran one like that for years on public safety, ham and GMRS. Never installed an amp on mine because I would swap out handhelds depending on the days function but know many that run VHF or UHF amps with the VA that love them. The little brother per say is the XTS2500 and that is also a great little UHF radio. Bit smaller form factor and no XTVA for it but solid and in use for PS all over the country.

I'd be interested in possibly expanding coverage in South Central Oregon. The Klamath Basin. I have no idea how to go about it. I'm retired but on a limited budget and have time to do something. I might get into ham one day but the study material just doesn't stick with me.

The 50x1 should have the 30 base channels (22 simplex +8 repeater) programmed already, with the repeater channels already being programmed with the appropriate offsets. Computer programming is good if you want to add some extra receive channels, but not really necessary for basic use. The main 2 steps you need for repeater access is making sure you're on the appropriate repeater channel for the frequency of the repeater, hit the menu key (either on the mic or on the radio), scroll to "t-ctcss" or "t-dcs" as appropriate, hit the menu button, and scroll to the correct tone. Hit menu again to confirm, then hit exit to get out of the menu. That should be all that's needed, assuming the repeater info is accurate, it's online, and within range. Sometimes the range they talk out isn't the same as what they can hear you trying to get in.

Contrary to common beliefs, once you step away from the keyboard and ignore the internet, you will find a vast number of Hams are GMRS operators and vice versa. In the hobby portions and in the community service areas, GMRS and Ham not only coexist, but work together with great success. At least when I have been for the last 20+ years. Now, there may be some individuals who don't play nice and use GMRS v Ham as an excuse to show their behinds... but that is a "them problem".

I run the 272 in both my JK and JT. I like the size and simplicity. Just pick a channel and go. Great for wife also. If I need other than GMRS I can use my APX.

but... but... but... it's the internet. I'm pretty sure its mandatory. LOL

ALLTHIS HAS BEENVERIFIED BY THE MENISTRY OF TRUTH!

I'll chime in and say I agree with Spaz, I truly believe amateur radio is better overall in an emergency. That being said, it does completely depend on what level of emergency you are talking about. There are a few notes that are pretty darn important: 1) Create a plan, or multiple plans for different scenarios. On-the-fly planning well not be sufficient when something goes sideways. 2) Vet your equipment. Just like any other equipment, you have to know how to use it, and use it effectively. Practice makes perfect. 3) Be active in your choice of communications. That could mean the neighborhood watch on FRS/GMRS, ARES, or just even the local ham group. You can bet that there is a 3000% better chance of your distress call being answered if they recognize your name/call than some random person coming out of the woodwork. You will also then know what is monitored by others frequently and where the activity is. 4) It is ok to separate your family communications plan from your external aid communications plan. 5) Your equipment does you no good sitting on a shelf at home. You will likely be at work, or out somewhere away from home when it all falls apart. Then you will have to make due with what you have on you, in your car, or in a pack. Are you prepared for that? 6) Redundancy isn't necessary, but isn't a bad idea.

I know you are not asking me specifically, but are you asking about how well FM works in other bands, such as lower portions of HF (20m, 40m, etc.)? The reason I ask is because the RF propagation is not impacted by modulation type. Modulation types are chosen due to their performance characteristics with regard to either efficiency or ability to carry data.

You can't really get any more simple than a 4 or 16 channel part 90 radio. Something like a Motorola CP200 or Vertex VX-231/261. "Mom, turn the radio on, select channel X, press PTT, Talk, Release"

Pretty freaking frustrated and disgusted right now. Attempting to log on to this website so that I can research some stuff and while trying to log on to the website it doesn't recognize my credentials. I go into forgot password mode like a good little boy and it still won't recognize it. I do it again, still won't recognize the change do it again still won't recognize the change ensuring that I do everything perfectly correct as I need to do! Now, this is not a big deal for somebody with two hands and no vision problems. I've had a stroke and I basically can only type with one hand, hell no basically to it. And then on top of that vision issues trying to go back and forth. Yeah this is ridiculous! I'm sure somebody will come on here and tell me I'm doing something wrong and I should do something different. Yeah whatever. And yes I've sent an email on the contact form. Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk