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Both Jeeps have Motorola XTL5000 radios, I carry a XTS2500 when running around on foot outside the Jeep, for the couch I use an XTS5000, and as my base-station, an XTL5000.. All for GMRS and encrypted comms..

In the Jeep, I'm running two 110w XTL5000 radios (one for VHF and one for UHF). I also have some customized Yaesu FMT-300DRs for same band/crossband VHF/UHF repeater systems and an FT-891 HF radio. I have entirely too many radios at home to bore people with... but the flavor is a variety of Icoms such as an IC-745, IC-746 Pro, IC-7000 and IC-7300. I have a bunch of HTs; mostly Baofeng and Yaesu. Also a 300w VHF Amp (FM and SSB) for when tropo ducts are the place to be or if I want to mess around during a VHF contest. I really want 991a. I need to stop making excuses and just buy one.

Open or not? That is the question. Well no, not really. But I guess I need to determine what your definition of closed is. Are you referring to it being closed as requiring permission for access, or are you referring to closed as no one outside your specific group as having access going forward. And I will warn you that even having an OPEN repeater on this forum with POSTED PL's but the ability to request access will fill your email box with permission requests. I get them all the time. No one has ever been denied, but I still get the requests. So will you. If you are going to make the access semi-private, not post the PL / DPL information publicly, like I have, and wait for requests, you will get MORE requests. But at least the repeater is publicaly posted for frequency and area of coverage. This will cut down on the possibility of someone else parking a repeater on your frequency with a different PL. Not posting it publicly at all can get a repeater parked on your frequency if no one else knows about it. Or posting it as being PRIVATE, or fee based membership. Then you will get to deal with assholes like me that absolutely abhor the idea of taking a shared resource and trying to charge money for it. My way of dealing with it was building a repeater that completely covered the other guys coverage area and making it fully open. Of course he did have a for profit business of selling access to his GMRS repeaters, so I really had ZERO heartburn doing so. He was the only one that suffered form that since his users could access my repeater for free, so they didn't need to pay him any longer. But those are the breaks. I work very hard in this area to work with anyone trying to setup repeaters for any type of use outside of that. I have run coverage maps for all the repeaters in my area, referenced this site and others trying to locate all the operational repeaters around with their PL / DPL information so when someone is talking about putting up a repeater I can assist with something resembling frequency / PL coordination so interference is kept to a minimum and everyone is happy. I have programmed repeaters and tuned duplexers for others to get them on the air. And I have provided equipment to people to get a system on the air if they had a location to get something up and running. I just refuse to support it as a business, and will attempt to scuttle ANY attempt to turn GMRS access into a business for profit. Now understand that this stuff is EXPENSIVE. SIte access, electricity, equipment and maintenance all costs money. Requesting donations, having raffles, and other fund raising operations are well within the scope of getting the bills paid for keeping gear on the air. But GMRS is not there to enrich you financially. So in truth, leaving it open for use is the best option. Here's why in my opinion. First is management of access. There frankly is none. For those people that get on there and act dumb, the other operators will deal with them, typically by just ignoring the stupidity. And that is the best way for dealing with LID operators. They get bored and go elsewhere that they can get a rise out of people. You will have more users if there are fewer restrictions for access. But there is a requirement of good equipment for that as well. My linked repeater on the MidWest system gets over 1000 PTT's a day and 4 to 6 hours of talk time on a normal day and twice that on the days there is a net. You can't get a couple mobiles in a box to stand up to that usage level for long. But it's always better to have good equipment from the start and not need to worry about it. The other thing with more users and activity is you can see the fruits of your efforts. And there are people there if you want to just chat with someone.

While reviewing the GMRS and FRS rules for my project I made a spreadsheet with all the relevant regulations so that I can see everything at a glance. I thought I would post it here in case anyone finds it useful, although I cannot promise that there are no errors. Perhaps someone knowledgeable could look it over and correct me! If you have time. GMRS and FRS radio regulations matrix (1).xlsx GMRS and FRS radio regulations matrix - Google Sheets.pdf

I only have the 935G, so I can't compare. However, the 935G has been an excellent radio. I also have a 905G and a S88G which are both superhet radios. I can't tell any difference between them and the 935G. All very good radios. The IP66 rating was a selling point for me as I am often in dusty or wet enviroments.

For GMRS all vehicles (mine and my parents) have midlands. I also run commercial Motorola(APX) gear in all my vehicles for PS/Ham/GMRS if needed. When on the jeep trails I'll normally have my Motorola T600 on my belt as its a durable little unit and at end of day wash it off in the sink for the next day. What ham stuff I do have (for APRS) is only used for ham stuff. No need or reason to mod it.

My Motorola Commercial and Professional Series radios all cover 438 to 470 Mhz covering 70 cm ham, most UHF LMR, and GMRS bands, no mods or hacks required. Some of the higher capability Commercial Series units can be programmed for FPP selectable PL or DCS.

Each employee, including you, would be required to have their own GMRS license and comply with all the regulations including the ID one. As a business owner you can't get a license for your business, that was eliminated with the rule changes in 2017, and hand out radios to your employees. If that's too much to deal with then just go and buy a bunch of FRS radios. Most of the same regulations apply that you see for GMRS. The big differences are the radios are limited to 2 watts on most channels, no repeater access and no ID/license requirements.

That's the usual reason, you're correct on that point. FM receivers incorporate a "limiter" stage for the sole function of eliminating any amplitude modulation in the RF signal.

Yes, you can copy / paste channels list/details between radios in CHIRP ... I am doing right now, with no problem.

Clearer, perhaps, because of signal to noise ratio, but I have never heard anyone tell people to turn up their power if their audio is simply low. We’ll tell them to turn up their mic gain, or maybe engage compression, or to speak more directly into the microphone.

Wrong. I've operated VHF and UHF FM for over 20+ years. It doesn't work that way. If you want to talk about SSB on 2M that's a different story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_modulation

I went with the Midland 3db “Ghost” antenna, which uses an NMO mount. I didn’t want cables hanging outside my vehicle. You can get a hood / trunk lip mount for an NMO base, but I went all-in and drilled a hole in the roof. When done correctly it’s no worry. Actually, two holes as I installed a Wilson cell booster at the same time.

If you have a GMRS license there is no requirement you have to use 2 watts or less on 1-7 and 15-22. That ONLY applies to FRS radios. GMRS radios can use up to 5 watts on 1-7 and up to 50 watts on 15-22, and that includes when talking to FRS radios. FRS-GMRS combined channel chart.pdf

I have the 935G and I am very happy with it. I am a newbie at this GMRS but having fun. In fact I just purchased the 1000 Plus for my base station.

Good eye Steve, I did mean 462.700 (chan 21) Anyway I don't think anything is wrong with the PX. After testing by using my radios to transmit the PX will stop while scanning with clear reception of my transmission. It will also pick up a strong GMRS repeater 10 miles away. But that's it, I can not get any other of the preprogramed channels except for inaudible hiss. I think your suggestion is what I need to pursue, an antenna swap. Thank you for the insight:) Tom

Radio selection for overlanding is different than other applications in my opinion. I would look for a commercial radio that had coverage for both HAM and GMRS in this case to minimize the number of radios required in the vehicle. And I might (personally WOULD) be looking for something like an XTL5000 that supported dual head so I could have a control point in both the drivers area and the living area of the vehicle. This would minimize the need to move to the cab to get access to the radio when needed. The other reason for a commercial radio over a modded ham radio or other option is you have better programming options (creating ZONES for specific areas) instead of needing to dial through a large number of channels to get to the desired channel. Commercial radios can have fairly complicated zone / channel layouts where the ham stuff, while it may support the same 512 or 1024 channels, will only allow one 'zone' with all 512 channels in numeric order. Other options with some commercial gear is the ability to control a PS grade siren / PA system. While the siren may not be very useful, the PA, radio over PA, and air horn functions can be valuable for overlanding operations in groups. The other thing some commercial setups have is the ability to control other equipment through I/O pins that can be programmed to radio buttons for controlling lights and other things via relays. Again, eliminating other things in the vehicle cab. Think about the amount of stuff that is controlled in a police car or fire truck and then consider that level of control in your overland vehicle. Yeah, it's gonna cost more than the CCR radio you were considering, but it can also save on space and offers additional functionality that a standard radio can't.

Thanks

Two things, came up my mind, you want to add to list - Channels 8-14 to hand-held radios only - Digital/data transmission is limited to 1 seconds not frequent than 30 seconds

Finally, these are the prohibited uses named in the GMRS section (Part E): § 95.1733 Prohibited GMRS uses. (a)In addition to the prohibited uses outlined in § 95.333 of this chapter, GMRS stations must not communicate: (1)Messages in connection with any activity which is against Federal, State, or local law; (2)False or deceptive messages; (3)Coded messages or messages with hidden meanings (“10 codes” are permissible); (4)Music, whistling, sound effects or material to amuse or entertain; (5)Advertisements or offers for the sale of goods or services; (6)Advertisements for a political candidate or political campaign (messages about the campaign business may be communicated); (7)International distress signals, such as the word “Mayday” (except when on a ship, aircraft or other vehicle in immediate danger to ask for help); (8)Messages which are both conveyed by a wireline control link and transmitted by a GMRS station; (9)Messages (except emergency messages) to any station in the Amateur Radio Service, to any unauthorized station, or to any foreign station; (10)Continuous or uninterrupted transmissions, except for communications involving the immediate safety of life or property; and (11)Messages for public address systems. (12)The provision of § 95.333apply, however, if the licensee is a corporation and the license so indicates, it may use its GMRS system to furnish non-profit radio communication service to its parent corporation, to another subsidiary of the same parent, or to its own subsidiary. (b)GMRS stations must not be used for one-way communications other than those listed in § 95.1731(b). Initial transmissions to establish two-way communications and data transmissions listed in § 95.1731(d)are not considered to be one-way communications for the purposes of this section

FRS has similar language that permits business use: Family Radio Service (FRS).A short-distance two-way voice communication service, with limited data applications, between low power hand-held radios, for facilitating individual, family, group, recreational and business activities.

It depends on what you’re doing commercially. First, these uses are forbidden for all public radio services: § 95.333 Prohibited uses. No person shall use a Personal Radio Service station: (a)In connection with any activity which is against Federal, State or local law; (b)To transmit advertisements or program material associated with television or radio broadcasting; (c)To transmit messages for hire or provide a common carrier service; (d)To intentionally interfere with the communications of another station; (e)To transmit obscene, profane or indecent words, language or meaning; or (f)To transmit a false or deceptive communication. So clearly you cannot spam listeners or charge to deliver messages.

Here is an ODS version of the document. GMRS and FRS radio regulations matrix.odf.ods

Appreciate the response! It was a good video with a number of antennas. It would be nice to test a bunch of antennas on tuned for GMRS. Wish I had the time and money to get the equipment to do this. The signal stick he tested in the video, is a different one from what I’m looking at (looking at the super stick extendable vs. 771G). I might pick up a super stick and try to do a rudimentary comparison.

The radios we use employ FM, frequency modulation. In other words the transmitted frequency is varied to convey the audio information. The amplitude of the transmitted signal, power, is not used to convey any audio information. This is why you see references to wide-band verses narrow-band on these forums. What is being referred to is how much the transmitted frequency varies, called deviation, for a given audio signal level. The wide-band can vary the transmitted signal by as much as 5KHz, while a narrow band signal will only vary by 2.5KHz. If we use wide-band on transmit to communicate with a narrow-band radio the audio will sound very loud and likely will be distorted. The reverse case a narrow-band radio transmitting to a wide-band radio the audio will sound very weak, low volume. This is why it's important to ensure that all radios are set to use the same bandwidth, deviation, and thus the FCC's comments you got.

The power level has nothing to do with the audio volume when using FM for communications.

That's not a "requirement" as such. It's in the rules that GMRS radios must use narrow band FM on channels 8-14 and no more than 0.5 watts. This is the exact same technical requirements for FRS radios. The FCC rep likely mentioned the above because the two radio services would be compatible on a technical level. You can legally program your GMRS radio to use narrow band FM on all channels thus you can use any of the 22 to communicate with FRS radios. The radio I use, Kenwood TK-3170, has "zones" which are logical grouping of memory channels. I have one zone programmed for wide band when talking to other GMRS radios, and another zone with the same channels programmed for narrow band to talk with FRS radios. Since the radio can't be turned down to 0.5 watts, minimum is 1 watt, I don't use 8-14 to talk with FRS radios.

I put a spare (Diamond) 1/2 wave 2m/70cm mobile antenna on my Chevy Bolt with a hood lip mount and was surprised and happy to get ~1.3 SWR on GMRS as measured by my fars-o-meter 2000. The way I see it, a mobile antenna with directionality is way better than a rubber ducky antenna inside the car.

The good news is that if you call it a private system & try to control access to the codes, you will probably get some polite inquiries from people asking for information. Once people start to use it, you will quickly lose control of access, especially if it offers good coverage. Anyone with about $30 worth of equipment can scan for the repeater output tones. If you make it a split system (different input PL/DPL codes vs. the Repeater's output) you can keep a little more control over access. What do you want to accomplish? Who are your desired users? Do you have any undesired users in the area? Do you have local control capability? ie: can you pull the plug if people are using the repeater in a way you do not want them to? Do you want to be faced with that kind of decision?

I actually do care about the rules. I care that we explain them accurately when asked and that we explain why we have the rules we have. But I don’t like to see us whip them out as a scolding remark to someone who is just getting started and has just asked for help.

There has never been a better description of the forums on this site.

Almost nobody truly cares.