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For anyone advocating for the use of AllStar or similar Linked repeaters, I've got just one question that sidesteps all the issues regarding networking and "wireline" definitions: How are you monitoring all those remote links for local non-linked traffic prior to keying up all repeaters in your network? What are you doing to avoid stepping on active local conversations that are not happening on your linked network, but are already taking place on non-linked repeaters? Monitoring for traffic prior to transmitting is one of those bedrock assumptions in the shared service frequencies - at least in any conversation I've had with FCC types. If your linked network routinely tramples on someone else's active conversation, I don't think the FCC would care if you're using microwave, Internet, or the Public Switched Telephone Network for wireline links.

Nobody NEEDS some technology that could save them trouble. All you really need overlanding is a backpack full of water, map, compass, and some nonperishable food, along with good hiking boots so you can walk out for help. As for GMRS vs cell, one will reach whoever is listening, which may be nobody, and one will reach the party you call if there's a cell tower in range. In both cases getting to high ground can help. GMRS isn't the only safety communication option, and in a given situation it may not even be the best option. But it has a lot of uses in group activities, and the added benefit of possibly allowing you to call for help. Or you can try smoke signals.

So whats odder is back in the old days when we had a repeater for home use we had a "remote" at our house for control of the repeater. It used a RTL (Radio Tie Line) from our house to the mountain top. I know in those days it wasn't cheap. Autopatch was a thing then on ham big time but you could not add that to GMRS. But wants needed as Dad would call and mo would tell him to get xyz on his way home. Later on control stations took over for remotes. Just funny how stuff progresses. Isay just enjoy GMRs for what its built for and fdont try to make it something it never was. Jeep riding, talking to kids in a park, hiking, caravans home use is what 90% of the folks who use GMRS use it for. Its only folks here that have to have linking and nets.

How are linked GMRS repeaters less cumbersome than ham radio? With eight repeater channels in total, and untrained users operating in panic mode on both the repeaters and on the eight simplex channels that share frequencies with those repeaters, linking GMRS repeaters, except on a prearranged published schedule like an amateur radio sked or net, could be useless. You're better off using personal services for proximate communications and get your news from battery powered receivers capable of tuning HF and the broadcast bands.

I always bring one along to keep people back home informed of my location and/or send a message. They're amazing devices.

This is just another of the 300 reasons I wish there was a moderator on this forum...

Not sure why you think GMRS in an emergency is better than cell or ham. First off 99% of the linked repeaters are using hot spots on cellular or a ethernet service from your local spectrum, comcast verizon company. If its down for you its down for the repeater also. Secondly i would venture 75% if not more of the repeaters listed on mygmrs are not on any emergency power. I know there are a few and ones done very well but most are far from that. to be honest HAM is not far behind. Yes alot of HAM stuff is in a state, county, local agency shelter at times with generator backup but the internet linking is still like everyon else. In the past a true land line is what alwasy gets thru. With folks relying on Voip home phones those are down also. I'm glad I still live where we can get copper phone lines to a house. Anyway back to topic. I've said over an over linking should go away. It was never there and for what GMRS was no need anyway. Ham guys are the ones who brought the tech to GMRS and tried to create another service. Go back to just using the radio for what it is.

I can understand that, but it really is easy to get a technician license. Then the eight channel limit is a thing of the past.

In a truly remote area (like the kind of places I go every weekend) there will not be any difference between a $18 Baofeng and a $300 50-Watt GMRS radio because neither will do any good.

I just wanted to share what i know in this area. 462.675 Thursday evenings 8:00 Repeater is located on Bluff Mtn. 141.3 PL Tone. Net control operators rotate from week to week. 462.600 Tuesday night 8:30 Repeater is located on Sharps ridge 141.3 PL Tone. Norm and Gary have been net control so far, its a new net. Phil

@WRUU653, @SteveShannon thank you guys. I had To be schooled on call sign formats in order to sign up.

If it is on top of a bookcase, is it near a wall or ceiling? Possibly try it in a different location, even if it is a bit lower, and see if that makes any change (for the better!) Any chance you have a window/wall airconditioner, and can put the mag mount base on it, which would also get the antenna outdoors, possibly more in the clear?

Per the meter, i frequently see 8-9W. The higher number is with ta Midland ghost and the lower is with the long rubber duck.

Really depends on how you look at it. I have some 5W HTs that can go about 1-2 miles in my area because of hills and trees. I have a repeater 17 miles away that I can reliably hit and talk with my families towns away from me. As the crow flies 5-20 miles. The signal is traveling much farther than from point A to B. And like you said if you were on opposite sides of the repeater in simplex you can't communicate but with the repeater you can. So you can double the range of the simplex or more in reality with the repeater between you at 180º straight line transmission. But if you have a 20w simplex and a 20 watt repeater and you are next to the repeater you aren't going to have much more distance advantage other than the repeater is likely to have an antenna that is higher up. That alone can give an advantage. If you have a 5 watt HT and a mobile RT97S which is also 5 watts using an antenna on top of the vehicle you will likely see little to no advantage in distance if you are near the repeater talking to someone away. But just like the 180º scenario you can double your distance if it's between you.

From the manual Optional Connections 12V Vehicle Power Adapter The KG-XS20G includes a 12V vehicle power adapter for use as an alternative to the hardwire installation. Note: The KG-XS20G typically draws less than 4.5 amps of power when in use on high power. Confirm that your vehicle’s accessory port uses a minimum 10 amp fuse before attempting to use the 12V power adapter.

It’s purely speculative on my end, but this issue REALLY sounds like whatever power source you’re using cannot supply adequate amperage to the radio while keyed on high..

Nothing is. It's a crapshoot when the excrement hits the rotary oscillator. I guess we all need to be good little Scouting America scouts and do our best to be prepared. Satellite phones are becoming more affordable. I may look into getting one for emergencies. They will have the same problem as cellular if too many users are subscribed.

Agreed.. I dont leave home without it.

No, it's a FRS radio not a GMRS radio

Totally true. That is why I have the Garmin Inreach Satellite Service and it works great.

You’re wrong.

Techinically you can cover an entire state but I know what you mean. Here is one scenario - County simulcast system with multiple sites and voters. Coverage needed in XYZ area. Add single base radio and use same "simulcast comparators technology as the simulcast. Technically from a "equipment" standpoint its still simulcast. From a user perspective if I talk on the "city b" radio everyone hears me in "city a" and i am voted even if its only one repeater. On the subscriber end you could do vote scan in the MSI world and the system would be concidered "multicast". Ive installed a few of these. While not desired sometimes thats the only way to do it. Our SAR system is almost exactly this as we couldn't license the same frequency in b county. So 4 site simulcast with a 5 site on another frequency. With proper equipment its pretty simple to do. Knowing the area the issue took place a well as some some of the players I'd probably done the same thing. For guys who work in the field you dont want to be at odds with customers and definately with the FCC. Think we are on the same page here @WRKC935.

Wasn't paying attention to the fact it was getting close. Had planned on getting a couple antenna's up. Too hot to climb the tower at this point. I might operate some tomorrow and Sunday, but with the heat that's forecast, I don't know I will be spending a lot of time on the air.

It's possible to be slightly off from 5.000 MHz and still be well within the rules for GMRS. It's nitpicking, but there's nothing in the rules that specify a 5 MHz offset. What is required is that the repeater input frequencies come from the 467 MHz main channels and that repeaters transmit only on the 462 MHz main channels. But, doing that breaks the repeater channels for all certified 95E radios.

But I understand, emergency use, etc, may not be an issue with licensing.

I sort of disagree with this. The custodian didn't get a letter or a warning from the Ef Sea Seas. He got an email from an employee at the Ef Sea Seas. It is not the same thing. He may have had a heads up on something that was going to go down but I don't think this was an official anything.

I disagree. Author said he had cell coverage… that’s not ham speak not even sad ham speak. I think they’re a shill for T-Mobile.

It helps to have communication options. GMRS is another one of those options. We tend to loose power and comms during major storms. It’s a benefit to me to have the ability to talk to friends and family to check in them. Phone lines (cellular or hardwire) are not always an available. Repeaters can increase the range of the radios. I have family greater than the range of a single repeater so linked ones work well for that application.

The thing I don't understand is this is touted as a 'simulcast' voted system. Now I don't know this system, or how it was built. But SIMULCAST to me, especially if voted, is multiple transmitters on a single frequency, with the receivers all shipped back to a 'prime' site where the receive audio is voted and the voted audio is then shipped to ALL of the transmitters with the timing controlled. The transmitters are all frequency referenced and the audio is launched based on a 1 pulse per second timing that's also GPS time based. The PL if one exists on transmit is referenced and is timed for the leading edge so it's all going out at the correct time in concert with the other PL tones. Yes, that's a mouth full. But I know enough about how it works that I have designed, built, and rebuilt several systems that were analog simulcast. But here's the thing, it's a single frequency, not like the 'linked' systems where a multitude of different frequencies are in play and where the coverage is across States, not smaller geographic area's. In fact toy can't do the simulcast I am talking about at great distances. You can't get the delay right for all of it. You build simulcast to cover a city, or possibly a county. You CAN'T cover an entire state with it. So I don't know how to react to this. On one hand, I want to say 'here we go again' referring to the November ARRL / FCC luncheon and discussion that took place. Which turned out at that point to be nothing. On the other hand, was it some FCC field agent warning his buddy that heads are about to roll and he needs to shut down before there is an active investigation into this stuff. We already know that there are FCC agents on this board. They are probably NOT going to reveal themselves, but they are here regardless. I will tell you this. The FCC does go out prior to VIP visits when the Secret Service is involved and monitor to ensure the communications for those folks is clear and usable. Those guys can't afford a communications failure at any point. Will they be looking at GMRS during that time. It's certainly possible. They monitor a LOT of stuff. IF the FCC is building cases on repeater owners, those cases are probably already being looked at and investigated. And I am willing to bet that if enforcement happens, it will happen to everyone that is linked together at the same time, or at least in the same week (receiving a letter). What others have said about letters is correct. You are NOT going to get a 'warning' that you are being looked at. You will get a letter saying that you were observed doing X on some date or dates. It will give the location of where the signal was coming from that they observed. And it's going to give you some amount of time to reply. It may or may not include a finding of forfeiture (what fine you are going to pay, that you are going to loose your license / licenses or whatever they decide to do to you). And it might give you some federal court house that you can come in and argue your case before a federal judge. How all that gets handled pertaining to the fines, loosing your license and what not are going to be dealt with individually and will no doubt depend on a number of things. So is it time to pull the plug? I can't speak for anyone else. But I am tired of this popping up over and over again. If there are fines and such, they aren't going to be cheap. And for some, loosing licenses are going to be a issue far beyond just GMRS. For those of us that are commercial radio tech's or involved with commercial radio as a profession, that could be devastating due to loosing one's ability to make a living. And if you think that the federal government is going to care,,, you're wrong. So personally, I am gonna just shut it down. This time for good. It's not worth the headache at this point dealing with this crap popping up over and over again and trying to figure out how to approach it. I frankly have better things to occupy my time with.

According to the president of the GMRS Alliance club that shut down, Carl, the club has around 226 members The club does NOT have it's own repeater system, they were provided site access to a "simulcast multicast system" as club members that was hosted by a un-named "different person or entity's" network along with a few "member repeaters" also part of the network The "custodian" of the simulcast system got the email asking to shut down the network - NOT the club or or any of it's members, although the club president was CC'd on reply to the FCC The email was real - the repeater custodian and the FCC agent that sent the email have a working relationship It sounds to me like the whole network was ran by somebody else - most likely leased from regional business band radio provider with multiple sites. The custodian gets a email from his FCC buddy that said shut it down and he did before they came knocking at the door. I'm sure that GMRS doesn't pay the bills in commercial radio arena and he doesn't need to make a enemy of FCC if they want to say on the good graces of his company's governing authority. At least he got a warning. As far as the FCC wanting a list of call signs that use the repeater, I can kinda see that as well. They were provided site access to a "simulcast multicast system" as club members and the FCC might want to send a warning letter to the users about the situation but I'd think they would get the message once the repeater network is off the air.

Collapsed? If one of my friends who worked for an enforcement group called me and gave me a heads up that might keep me out of an enforcement action, I would not argue. I would simply say “Thanks!” And take their advice. An early warning system is nice to have. Why argue with them?

I have an opinion, but it is just that - an opinion. I consider GMRS as super-FCS, not HAM lite. I have no issue with local repeaters, but if you feel the need to "rag chew" with someone four states away, take the test and get your HAM license. But that is just my opinion.

Why was this link not posted in the thread about this same product? Licensed for 10 days, registered user at MyGMRS for a week, 11 comments, 10 of them in the same post about this same concept. I understand wanting to get the word out about this new product/concept/whatever, but I kinda feel like creating a Wikipedia page about it and vomiting it here isn't the best tactic.

Yes

Our group is doing an overnight setup at a campground here in SoCal. We're not trying to compete, we just want to get out and operate off the grid. Last year we actually made it into QST magazine.

Welcome to the forum

Welcome! Insert “At Last” song!

I don’t use repeater networking on gmrs, but I know that for DMR each node has its own ID number. There are different networks with Brandmeister being the largest by far. But in order to prevent conflicts all of the ID numbers are doled out by a single clearinghouse. So my brandmeister ID isn’t a duplicate of one on MARC or Western States DMR network. That also allows gateways between the different networks.

Obviously "the best" is the UV-5R because it cost only $18. as you can see, it depends on how you define "best" and what is important to you in a radio - so only you can answer the question.