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Because RF is emitted in all directions equally from an isentropic antenna, one way to compare the range of different power outputs is to think in terms of the volume of a sphere: Two watts fills the volume of a sphere of a radius of 0.78159 (the units in this case end up being the cube root of watts.) Five watts fills the volume of sphere of 1.06078. So, all other things equal, the range of a 5 watt radio compared to a 2 watt radio, to produce the same RF strength, will be approximately 36% further. Increasing it to 10 watts (five times the power of the two watt radio) results in 70% greater range. Increasing power to 20 watts gets you a little more than twice the range of the 2 watt radio (2.14 times to be exact). Finally, increasing it to 50 watts gets you less than three times the range of the 2 watt radio. (a factor of 2.917). Hopefully this illustrates how little/much RF power actually matters. Edited May 14, 2025: The above should have referred to the surface area of the sphere, not the volume. I regret my error.

Without some kind of repeater coordination like ham does, uncontrolled, unrestricted GMRS repeater linking will eventually become a problem. The only saving grace is the practical fars. But once every repeater channel has a linked repeater on a 199 1/2 ft tower ... Be careful what you wish for.

Your fars are limited more by the antenna and location than your RF-electricities, and the coverage radius is an estimate based on whatever the repeater-owner decided to enter, and it may not be based in reality at all.. Whether or not you can connect to/use the repeater depends on what is between you and the repeater.. if its up high on a mountain, with no other mountains in between you and it, then 20-miles is no problem.. If there are mountains, a forest, or miles of houses full of..gravitationally-enhanced people between you and the repeater, then you may not be able to reach it... The only way to know, is to try it.

Yes! Sorry, I thought I included the phrase “all other things being equal.“ I meant to anyway.

I got it all figured out I was adding the tones in wrong

The real answer is no, but I'm sure he'll make some BS up, or tell you to do your own research. Sadly, I will never know his answer, as he is on my ignore list

If you are an individual who puts up a receiver to link one or more GMRS channels and broadcast them across the internet there is nothing illegal about that. Its like Broadcastify. The FCC rules do not preclude that. Now conversely, if you set up a small studio in your home and broadcast your bloviating across the country to GMRS transmitters, that would be a violation of the one way broadcast prohibition.

There is no two way communication so I don't think it counts as linking. And as far as broadcasting goes, you are not broadcasting something on the GMRS frequencies so that doesn't meet the "requirements" of the regulations regarding the GMRS service. But, I am not a smart person so YMMV.

We were doing that for our friend Roland, too. We appended his REACT number to our call signs at the end of our conversations... like WRAB123 43. I agree it's a nice gesture.

I like some of the ideas in your NET like mentioning one's radio, and a measurable response about the quality of their check-in. In the weekly Net that I participate in, the net controller almost always says everyone has a "good signal" ... and well.. sometimes to me at least it does not seem some are that strong or clear. I think it is a more practical and useful method your group is using if the purpose is to check and test communications and how they are working. I might suggest this to our net controller. The tribute to a "permanently logged off" member also was a touching thing to do. We have members how have passed listed as "silent key" members. Many are checked in by the net controller as silent keys for a number of weeks or more after their passing in memory of their years of service to the club.

Had our net tonight. Just simple stuff, more like a roll call of people interested in participating in said net. We had a member pass and we held a silent moment after the net manager called out for his reply 3 times. No reply was heard and we put his member number into the books as permanently logged off. After that anyone interested in calling out states their ID#, call sign, name, and radio type (base, mobile or HT). The net manager would repeat it back and log it, then state the R# for the quality of the reception into the repeater. Today we had a member that was trying out 5 different HTs from the same area and the net manager told him how he was received on all. Only one of his radios sounded bad, very muffled sound. Maybe a defective microphone. No big deal or fanfare. At the end he would ask if there was any traffic, there never is.

I’m so sorry this happened to you Steve. I hope his girlfriend saw him for who he is and gets far away. I’m glad you got out of there without it being even worse. Hit a run is no joke.

Can you name those parts of the country, and specify who decided it "was" a problem and spiraling out of control?

Today I received my replacement radio, in fact it was a complete kit. Radio, battery, charging block and cable, antenna and of course the wrist strap. wasn't charged anything so that's pretty good in my book. Cheers!

Use T-DCS.. DCS, DPL, and DTC are all the same thing. You're welcome.

I have a mental picture of a car in the left lane driving precisely the posted speed limit. [emoji849]

No, i think it offends his autistic OCD anytime someone does not follow every.. single..rule..ever..written..anywhere...

@WRUU653 Stop using the "L" word.

Fortunately I only bloviate in forums, not over the airwaves.

Michigan https://mygmrs.com/repeater/7242 https://mygmrs.com/repeater/6815 https://mygmrs.com/repeater/8451 Part of the Mi8 linked system. We're past "Line A", so 2 of the 8 repeater pairs are not available. With 3 being used by high power wide area linked repeaters doesn't leave much left for the little guy.

Which, of the thousands of listed repeaters are you referring to? Irregardlessly of which repeater you want to use, the basic steps are to request-access to the pacific repeater you wish to use. The repeater owner will then "approve" or deny your request and send you the TX and RX tone and channel/frequency.. IF the repeater you wish to use is "open", then no request is necessary and you should see all the info you need on the pacific page for the pacific repeater you want to use. IF you meant something else, please elaborate.

As a poorly qualified noob I have the constant feeling that I'm missing something. According to the obviously qualified posts here, no GMRS users have complained about linking, technical complaints such as tying up frequencies are baseless and everyone who tries it likes it. Yet there remains afoot a movement to terminate all this happiness. What am I missing? This is more of an opportunity for the FCC than it is a problem. The ability to communicate with others over long distances via linked repeaters is very appealing, with little if any apparent downside. If there is a problem with the rules then perhaps the FCC needs to change the rules.

obviously scanner traffic is not two way communications which the FCC implies too in the rules. Like most radio bands it is not illegal to rebroadcast received one way radio signals over the internet which is currently being done by tons of Smart Phone apps. There are exceptions where you are would not be allowed to re-broadcast or even listen to to certain frequencies such as Cell Phone frequencies, Taxi Service Frequencies and a few others. GMRS frequencies would be permissible

Actually the antennas respond to the "E" field. Look at the sensitivity rating of a radio's receiver. It's specified in microvolts. To get a ruff idea the power density varies as the inverse square of the distance since the same power is spread out over a larger surface area of the sphere around the isotropic source. So if the power density is: PD=(watts)/(sphere's surface area) Expressing sphere's surface area as a function of the radius: sphere's surface area=Pi*radius^2 PD=(watts)/(Pi*radius^2) And watts can be expressed as: watts = (Volts^2)/(Resistance of free space), which is about 120*Pi, or 377 ohms. So your power density becomes: PD=[(Volts^2)/(377 ohms)]/[(Pi*radius^2)] Or after a bit of rearrangement: PD=[(volts/radius)^2/[(Pi*377 ohms)] That will vary as the surface area of the sphere, or the inverse square of the distance. If the radius is in meters then you have the "E" field intensity in Volts/Meter. PD=(E^2)/(Pi*377 ohms) Note that antenna simulation software will specify the antenna's "E" field in volts per meter. Also be careful you want the "Far Field" number. This also leads to another topic about "path loss" and how there is is a difference between VHF verses UHF for signal strength given antennas of equal gain. It turns out you need much more power at UHF to get the same signal strength you would see on VHF for the same power. Part of the gain you get on VHF is ruined due to the short stubby VHF antenna gains on HT's, reportedly around -5 to -6 db, which almost cancels out the reduction in path loss reduction. Just can't win.

I think radio club nets are boring, especially if you are not a member, but they do let you and others know about your signal strength and audio quality which you really need to know if ever there is a need for serious comms. It depends on why there is a net - A CERT net -- an event or drill will need a net control to keep things organized. Different types of nets have their purposes, and you don't have to check in to it if it's not your thing. (doesn't mean you can sit there and jam it) They should be local - not the whole state My 2.3 cents (inflation adjusted)

Recently, the FCC has clarified its interpretation of the GMRS rules regarding repeater linking by stating that linked repeaters are against the rules. For years, the Part 95 rules have been unclear about whether repeater linking falls under Remote Control, Interconnection, or something else entirely. FCC Clarification (Click the Operations tab) A GMRS user asked the Commission for clarification several years ago and received a response that it was indeed allowed. This letter had been posted online. Given that decision and the nebulous state of the Part 95 rules, we have operated under the assumption that this was permitted. While this clarification is not binding and does not update the actual Part 95 rules, it shows that the FCC is against repeater linking and at least intends for it to be prohibited. Given this new information, it is in our best interest to begin shutting down the myGMRS Network, which allows repeater owners to link using VoIP technology over the Internet. We will shut down the myGMRS registration server in one week, on August 28th, 2024. The main myGMRS website will not be affected and will continue to serve the GMRS community as it has for nearly 20 years. Connections between repeaters or audio are not carried through our servers; only the registration server is used to keep a listing of which nodes are online at any given time. Disabling the registration server will not break the connection to existing nodes; it will only prevent new connections from occurring. Repeater owners who continue using VoIP or other means to link repeaters together will do so at their own risk. myGMRS is committed to operating within the FCC rules and aims to maintain a positive rapport with the Commission. Should the Commission's stance change, we will reconsider whether to bring the network back at that time. If you wish to sign, there is a Change.org petition to request that the FCC allow network connections. Change.org Petition to Allow GMRS Linking

But he sounds like big fun to hang out with! [emoji1787]

Thank you, Gil! It was more like “hit and lead” because he never appeared to attempt to speed off, although he was going slightly faster than I was. When we called the sheriff’s office my friend said to the dispatcher that the guy who ran into us was right ahead of us if they wanted to send a car to intercept him. The dispatcher said “No, it’s shift change and we really don’t have anyone available.” I was not terribly impressed. I suspect that this is a “he said vs. he said” thing and law enforcement will just let the insurance companies fight over it.

I also have it turned off on all my radios. It is too bad that it doesn’t speak what is typed in. That would be helpful for blind people not to mention I’d love it if it said Bozo 478.

They should all be in prison!!!!1

Please Note! UPDATE! The SGA-575 repeater is experiencing noise issues due to equipment failure. A new duplexer has been located is being configured for installation. The volunteer technical team is working on the issue and will resolve as soon as possible. Thanks, Scott Haner WRfS-362 Sys-op

It looks like a pay to play system, have you reached out via their club site, Facebook or their club members forum here? Perhaps something is going on with the system do to newly clarified rules on linking.

If you have the tone, you shouldn't need to figure out anything. It either uses DPL or PL (or DCS or CTCSS). How are you checking, and how do you know it's not working? What is / isn't it doing? Are you sure you have line of light to the repeater? Are you close enough?

To date, the FCC has never issued any notice of violation to any GMRS licensee for linking. These letters are all accessible on the FCC website by general search or via the Enforcement Bureau. In my opinion, the majority of the detractors have some sour grapes and just want to condemn something others enjoy. I doubt they live somewhere where all 8 channels are unavailable for whatever reason. Perhaps NYC/Long Island, but not the Carolina's or even Florida.

Broadcasting is over the air. This is really just listening in, and providing a feed to the listening device. Two way traffic, be it simplex or duplex carries on as it always has. But a radio happens to be listening and putting a feed online. I don't think this violates any rules, and therefore could be a nice feature in the absence of this site carrying interconnected repeater networks.

Simply put,, there is not enough bandwidth for linking repeaters in the GMRS band while not effecting the intended users of GMRS.. The FCC has already allocated tons of bandwidth for this practice were it has rules and procedures to manage those networks.. Also the FCC requires a specialized license to use those frequencies allocated for repeater linking, which requires users to demonstrate more radio knowledge and hopefully responsibility.. I can guarantee the FCC is not going to change the GMRS rules to include world wide repeater linking in the GMRS band. Why? because they already have an allocation of frequencies for this practice known as the amateur radio. The practice of repeater linking requires a higher level of knowledge/expertise, not commonly found or expected, with an entry level license such as GMRS , . Repeater Linking requires a lot of coordination, procedures and managing skills which is well established in the Amateur Radio world and (not in the GMRS world). If the FCC even thought of changing the GMRS rules to include repeater linking in the GMRS band, the first thing they would want to do is re-classify that frequency band segment to the Ammeter Radio Band where they already have rules and process set up for the purpose of repeater linking They are not gong to re-write a set of rules to allow repeater linking in the GMRS band, knowing the practice will destroy the intended purpose of GMRS. Myself and many many many of my friends whom enjoy GMRS for the intended purpose have alreay written to the FCC opposing any attempt to change the rules permitting repeater linking in the GMRS band. I encourage anyone that does not want the GMRS band destroyed by repeater linking to do so as well. For you people that enjoy the hobby and beniffits of repeater linking, you all need to obtain and or use the Amateur Radio benefits already set up..

One of the local GMRS repeaters out here run a SkyWarn (storm spotter thing) every Tuesday. They run the same basic preamble that WRYZ926 posted, something like "This net is to test our equipment incase of an actual emergency. All licensed GMRS users are encouraged to check into the net, if you are SkyWarned trained or a CERT member please let us know your info when checking in". There are usually 25-35 folks that check in per week. It's actually a pretty good turnout for a stand alone repeater I think. A lot of the 2 meter nets have less check in's.

These comments from detractors complaining about tying up frequencies have no merit. I have yet to encounter an area with multiple repeaters within the same coverage area being linked. Whether it is linked or not a repeater will still occupy the single pair it configured for. The owner decides what traffic is allowed on the repeater they have installed. Don't like the constant chatter, put up your own repeater. Some repeaters will fall silent now because local user will not have the breadth of the network. Yes as stated it against the rules but if we were really rule adherent then we apply that to every aspect of our lives or we are just being hypocrites.

Shutting down the actual links is different than shutting down the repeaters themselves. Repeaters are not getting shut down because of this. It is only the links that are getting shut down. I'm not trying to offend people. But it feels like I am stuck watching the Disney Chicken Little movie on constant repeat. The FCC is actually doing something right for a change and trying to clarify the rules making them easier to understand.

"all" the other GMRS repeater systems throughout the country are not shutting down.. Many are, but some will choose to wait until the FCC actually does/says something. This site is much more than just some linked GMRS repeaters, so, no, my guess is that there is zero reason for this site to shut down.

There is definitely possibility to include additional frequency allocations, modulation types (p25/c4fm for example) and modifications to existing rules. There is a tremendous amount of effort, multiple agency and organization coordination required for identifying potential additional frequencies, expanding an existing service. So, the team will be looking at level of effort and likelihood to succeed. We are going to need public support in order for any changes to occur. I am 100% certain that any proposed changes will be socialized in places like like MyGMRS. We have just started discussing what the makeup of the IPT will look like. Once the team is selected, the meetings will start. I suspect this will take some time... and we can't make any promises beyond we will try... but key players are committed. I was wait for the "that escalated quickly" meme.

I wanted to share my results of my 2nd Ed Fong GMRS antenna. This is on a 18' MFJ tripod mast on a Retevis RT97 GMRS repeater go box, powered by a 50AH lithium battery charged by tactical solar or wall charger through SAE ports on the box. Also using a repeaterid.com ID system with morse code. Couldn't be more happy with the results, the machine ran all weekend and solar kept it fully charged, and hardly any battery loss over the night. Using the 462.550 / 467.550 repeater pair with TX and RX codes. SWR under 1.1 and getting 5.2W output after the duplexer. The Fong GMRS antenna is the star, so lightweight and portable, with no need for grounding. Using 18' of Messi & Paoloni Ultraflex 7 with the good waterproof connectors (also have a 25' run of it if needed, love this cable and connectors for tactical or shorter runs). If anybody has any questions regarding this set-up, I will be more than happy to help.

Quick note: There is no minimum age for family members. Which reminds me, before I got into GMRS I asked a user why he had the radios for his kids when they could just use cell phones. He said, "I don't want Junior dropping a $500 phone over the side of the canoe."

SPECIFICALLY FOR THE TD-H3: If you want to setup the preset repeater channel for 462.600 on the TD-H3... (assume that is the question) you can go to the preset channel "25" on your radio.. put in the TX and RX (menu items 11 & 13) to 141.3Hz ^^^^ That should be all you need to do... the +5 mhz should already be there. ----- If you want to add this as a separate channel and leave the default repeater channel withoue a CTCSS ... then you would have to manually enter everything and save to a channel that is open on your radio above 30 and below something like 50 something I think. but try the simple version above first if you are not familiar with programming a radio.

In GMRS, there are 22 simplex channels. 462.600 corresponds with channel 17. In repeater terms, an input frequency is the frequency that a radio must transmit at to be received by the repeater. The output frequency is the frequency the radio must listen to, to hear the repeater's output transmission. Any transmission from a 2-way radio on the input frequency will be repeated back on the output frequency for other radios to hear, as long as the input uses the correct squelch tone. The GMRS repeater channels pair an input frequency 5MHz higher than the output frequency. This means that simplex channels 15-22 are the same as the eight output frequencies of GMRS repeaters. Those output channels in the 462.xxxx range get paired with input frequencies in the 467.xxxx range. So 462.7000 gets paired with 467.7000. And 462.6000 gets paired with 467.6000. Any GMRS type approved radio that can work with repeaters will automatically know the 5MHz pairing. You shouldn't have to set that part up manually. You pick RP17, or RP3 or 25R, whatever your radio calls the repeater at 462.6000. Your radio will now be listening on 462.6000, and transmitting on 467.6000. The correct name for the repeater channel at 462.6000 will be in the manual. That's the first half of the battle. Next, you need your radio to send a tone when it transmits to the repeater. This tone is how the repeater knows you are talking to it, and not to some other repeater that happens to be on the same frequency. You must be on the correct frequency, AND you must transmit the correct tone on that frequency. The tone is inaudible to people, but is heard by the repeater. The repeater recognizes the tone, and opens squelch, meaning starts listening. Whatever a repeater listens to, it retransmits 5MHz lower. So in your radio you need to program tone 141.3 as a Tx (transmit) tone. If you don't program this tone, the repeater won't wake up. It's that simple. As for how to program the transmit tone in a TD-H3, I won't deprive you the opportunity to look it up in the manual the method of programming 141.3 as a transmit tone. You'll find it there, and now that you know what it is for, you may be more successful in setting it. Now you should be able to key up the radio, and state "This is WSDK548 doing a radio check. I'm looking for a signal report if anyone is monitoring." When you release the key, you'll hear a pffffft-click, which people call a "kerchunk". If you hear this, it means the radio opened squelch while you were transmitting, which means you have the correct repeater frequency and tone. If you get a response back from a person, even better. At this point you may also notice kids playing on FRS radios on channel 17, or road crews, or whatever. That's because you only set a TX tone. You are transmitting the tone needed for the repeater to listen to you, but you are not filtering out transmissions coming back to you. You are listening "open." You may not like hearing kiddies pressing the call button and road crews letting ten more cars through the work zone. So now you need to program 141.3 as an RX tone, or an input tone. Once you've done this, things will get much quieter. You will only hear someone transmitting on 462.600 with tone 141.3. There won't be many people who just stumble into this combination, so you won't be hearing much (or any) unwanted traffic. But the repeater, when it transmits back to you or your friends, transmits that 141.3 tone. By setting that as an RX tone in your radio, your radio's squelch will open when it hears that tone, and you'll hear the repeater. ... if you're in range, if you programmed it right, if someone is hitting the repeater that you're listening to correctly. To transmit to the repeater you need the right frequency and the right tone. If you set the wrong frequency or the wrong tone, the repeater won't listen to you. To listen to the repeater you need the right frequency and NO tone, OR the right frequency and the right tone. If you set the wrong tone, your radio won't open squelch and you won't hear the repeater.

I still have most of the gear and plenty of woods. I may repeat the test with "like-model" comparisons. I have to see how the calendar shakes out and if I can find a volunteer with a proper CB install.

I would like to see a CB radio tested on FM since that would be a closer comparison to MURS and GMRS. GMRS and MURS are FM frequencies. And yes I have been looking into getting a CB radio with AM, FM, and SSB capabilities.

That's a really good answer. Wish you had tried the GMRS on 5 watts to see how an HT might have worked.

So... couple of possible answers. I have done head-to-head-to-head testing for a customer, through 10 miles of heavy woods, with GMRS, MURS and CB. I will make this as concise as possible. With everything being equal, the lower in frequency you go, the less foliage and trees absorb RF... therefore the less the impact on range. That said, due to rules of the services, that doesn't mean anything as far as practical application. Again, no Line of site restriction, heavy woods, abiding to the FCC rules. From and to the exact same locations, on the same day, within an hour time frame. With a mobile CB, legal limit on AM, the max usable power of 4w (3 measured) and a 1/4 wave antenna, range was about 2.5 miles. With mobile MURS, max usable power of 2w (1.8 measured) and a 6dB gain antenna, max range was 1 mile. With GMRS. max usable power of 50w (48.5 measured) and a 6dB antenna, we were able to talk the full 10 miles with about a 50:50 SNR.

NO I really think you need to explain your outburst here. And I'm sorry, you own which repeaters that the 'non-serious' conversations are being had on and you did what to remedy the situation? What violations of the FCC regulations occurred during these conversations that weren't serious? Do you have recordings of said conversations and are submitting them for review, correct? Need names, call sign's, times and repeaters accessed for these non-serious conversations so that we can check logs and recordings and make an informed decision about the validity of your claims here. The repeater owners take these sorts of things very seriously. And will take action if there were infractions of the FCC regulations. BUT, to be clear, there is ONE individual that has been banned from my repeater. It was due to the user that had a bit to much to drink and was on the radio talking while intoxicated. Sure, he was having fun with his conversation, and says some things that weren't necessarily appropriate. But HE wasn't the one that got banned. The clown that got on my repeater and DEMANDED I deal with it, and when I refused, got heated with ME about the actions of the individual in question, he did get banned. I told him that since he had such an issue with the situation it was probably best that he not use my repeater any more. He sort of missed the meaning until I told him point blank that he was banned and I was taking the repeater off the air due to his nonsense and I then shut the repeater down for a week. I then told anyone that ask why it was down that the individual that was offended by the other guys actions took offense to me refusing to chastise the guy for being drunk on the air and saying dumb stuff. He don't use my repeater any more. So, don't get on here and DEMAND that the repeater owners enforce your 'acceptable operating topics and procedures'. If someone is abusing MY repeaters, I will deal with it. You get to choose what's said on YOUR repeater, and that's as far as it goes. If you are operating on someone else's repeater, shut up and deal with it. It's NOT your concern. If you don't like that answer, my best advice I can give is load up in your car, go buy yarn and needles and take up Knitting. Then you can park yourself in front of your TV set and scream at it when something is on there since you don't seem to grasp the concept of changing the channel when something is being discussed that offends your personal belief structure. This was the most polite way I could come up with of telling you to build a bridge and get the hell over it. BOTH services you mentioned are HOBBY RADIO. We are not going to turn hobby radio we have casual conversations on into public safety dispatch level communications because you think we need to.