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With an Antenna Analyzer I am getting 1.31:1 @ 462.625 MHz, 1.07:1 @ 465.000 MHz, and 1.49:1 @ 467.625 MHz with the Midland MTXA 25 Phantom Antenna and Midland MXTA 12 NMO Magmount.

No, but telling everyone you found a $100 bill under the driver's seat should motivate the minimum wage employees to do a better job of cleaning out the interior of the cars as an extra service.

I don't want a PTT button that is hard to push in since I have arthritis in my hands. I also don't want a PTT button that is too easy to push in. I don't want to be like my brother. His hand mic slipped down onto his seat and got pushed, everyone on the 2m repeater got to hear his conversation with his wife. PS: triggering Negative Nancy is more fun than blocking him

Bullshit. We’ve had to correct your fallacious claims many times. This is only true in certain rare situations, like from the hill overlooking a massive desert between you and Vegas. Most people just won’t get that kind of distance before their signal is blocked by the earth’s curvature and terrain. Why lie? Does it make you feel better about yourself?

I went wild and did some field testing today. I don't have sophisticated equipment to test antennas, but I set out to answer two "practical use" questions: (1) Which one talks the most farz? (2) How likely is it to damage my radio? The test radio was a TYT TH-9800 in my car operating on simplex and the receiving/responding radio was a Baofeng AR-5RM with an HYS 701 antenna used by my buddy at my house. The answer to the first question was both easy and surprising. I tested all of them in a number of locations in about a 10 mile radius from my house and they all did about equally well, making 6 miles pretty easily, a bit more in some locations, and fading after that. Some of them lost signal pretty quickly on MURS and GMRS, but they weren't designed for that, so I don't hold it against them. The Comet SBB-1 and Nagoya NMO-72 tended to have a little less background noise, but with all of them, the signal became unintelligible at about the same locations. Antennas matter, but terrain matters more. For the second question, I tested SWRs on each antenna on the 2 meter, 70 centimeter, GMRS, and MURS bands. (Don't start. I know the rules. I'm a grown-ass man. I'll take my chances.) I tested each band on each end and in the middle and on a few random frequencies. I assigned a value to the SWR ranges: 4 = nearly perfect SWR 1.00-1.02, 3=pretty good SWR 1.03-1.49, 2=good enough SWR 1.50-2.00, 1=prefer not to use it but probably wouldn't do any harm SWR 2.01-2.50, 0=too high for my comfort SWR 2.51 or higher. The antenna got the score that was highest of the SWRs in that band. Comet SBB-1 2m-1 70cm-4 GMRS-3 MURS-3 Comet SBB-2 2m-2 70cm-3 GMRS-3 MURS-3 HYS 144/430 2m-2 70cm-3 GMRS-3 MURS-1 Comet SB-15 2m-4 70cm-4 GMRS-0 MURS-3 Nagoya NMO-72 2m-3 70cm-4 GMRS-2 MURS-3 Compactenna 2m-3 70cm-4 GMRS-2 MURS-1 Surprise! The lowly Nagoya NMO-72 is perfectly usable across all four bands. The Comet SB-15 is perfect on 2m and 70cm, pretty good on MURS and unusable on GMRS. However, it's a quad-band 10m/6m/2m/70cm antenna. It already has a lot to do. I was a bit disappointed in the Comet SBB-1's 2m performance, since it's allegedly a 2m/70cm dual-band antenna. It was pretty good on 70cm, GMRS, and MURS, but I bought it for 2m/70cm. I probably won't be using it again. The SBB-2 was about as versatile as the Nagoya, but like the SBB-1, I expected a better showing on 2m. The Compactenna did very well on 2m and 70cm, not well on GMRS or MURS, which is to be expected, since it's marketed as a 2m/70cm antenna. Just because I had them lying around, I tested two GMRS-specific antennas as well, the Midland Ghost and the Nagoya UT-72G. Ghost 2m-0 70cm-0 GMRS-2 MURS-0 Nagoya UT-72G 2m-0 70cm-2 GMRS-3 MURS-0 Because the Ghost is a single-purpose antenna, I expected a bit better score in the GMRS band, but it got a 2 because one of the SWRs was between 1.6 and 2.0. Most of them were better. I know from having used it for several months that it punches above its weight in terms of performance in real-world applications. The UT-72G is also a single-purpose GMRS antenna, but the 70cm band is apparently close enough that it could be used in that band. Either of them should work just fine for regular GMRS use. Conclusions: (1) You can do all the fancy antenna testing you want, but in the real world, there's not much difference in farz from one antenna to another. (2) There apparently really is such a thing as a "do-it-all" antenna if that interests you. (3) You might think the manufacturers of a single-purpose antenna would have them finely tuned to that band, but you'd be wrong, at least part of the time.

Well, no, again. The rules do not require that the offset be +5 MHz. They only require that the repeater receive on the 467 MHz main channels and transmit on the 462 MHz main channels. But 5.000 MHz is the usual offset. Some places do not use that offset in order to avoid interference, typically maritime locations. Channels 15-22 don’t have an offset at all. They are the simplex channels. The channels above 22 are sometimes names RP15-RP22, but they are 23-30 in a numbered list. You keep jumping new people about the rules when you obviously don’t understand them. Maybe you should go back and read them before you are a complete asshole to someone on their first post. That’s why you’re the most ignored person on the forum.

Now that I am thinking about it, and because this discussion seems to irritate @Socalgmrs, hysteresis in a PTT switch is nice. The old Shure mikes had nice hysteresis. Hysteresis makes it easier to hold the button down and it gives decent tactile feedback.

I tried to group the results into something that would make sense to me for practical applications. Excellent, good, not bad, tolerable, and nope. It's easier to work with than splitting hairs about 0.01 vs 0.02. I often say that "good enough" is a valid concept.

Pretty much. The buttons also have an orange border making it easy to see at a glance. The radio comes with a defalt of the top button keying the selected screen area which can be quite confusing when you hit the top button and it keys the bottom. I recommend using the settings to asign the top button to the top and the bottom to the bottom. This just makes intuitive sense.

I had the exact opposite experience between the abbree 771 and the Nagoya 771G. Unless you are talking about the 771n by abbree...?

Well, you’re right about that. @WSGZ436 go ahead and chat. Dipshit has no authority.

But I call “cq xyl only”

Also disable VOX and set the TOT to something reasonable. Then other people on the road will only hear you for a limited time. I’ve heard idiots transmit household noise for hours because they used VOX.

I agree. It might be an age thing with me, but I want buttons I can feel and give at least tactile feedback when pressed. With devices using touch screens and similar tech there's no feel and without visual confirmation I don't know if I successfully pushed a button let alone the correct one. A lot of manufacturers now use haptic interfaces where depressing a touch sensitive button cause a short pulse of vibration that may also be audible. While better than nothing, to me it's inadequate.

I really don't think about it much. Professionally, over the last few decades I used all kinds / combinations of PTT buttons you describe. I can't say I really strongly prefer one over the other or worry about how hard the button is to press, as long as the radio works. Force me to pick and I would go with a tactile click.

I solved the problem of PTT Fatigue on my Baofeng DM-5R DMR HT with an old MAHA PTT mic with K-1 connector that I had from my 1990's Kenwood days.

GMRS is General Mobile Radio Service. Its not just for family. It over laps on the FRS but that is just incidental. I hear schools, hospitals, and businesses when I scan the band. I don't believe "rag chewing" is misuse. Get on the air and meet people!

Very few people who start a sentence this way are truly sorry. It would seem that the only thing more pointless and time wasting than a thread on a radio forum talking about ptt pull weight on a handheld radio would be commenting on a thread on a radio forum talking about ptt pull weight on a handheld radio when you view the thread as a waste of time. You ARE the internet, sir.

There is, but it requires paid membership (more for family). 700 in Gilbert area of Lexington Co. and 650 in Columbia. The other, inactive ones listed for 550 and 575 might come back, hard to say.

I’m in the I haven’t given it much thought camp. I guess I prefer a more stout PTT as it would seem less likely to press unintentionally. One thing I do like is the dual PTT on the Wouxun KG-Q10H/G as it makes it very easy to keep track of transmitting on the upper or lower channel. You do have to select it to do this in settings.

I have never really thought about it. I used HT's professionally for 40+ years. During those times a radio was a tool that was used while performing a task. Pushing the button just happened without thinking about it. In my use of radios, Amateur and GMRS, again, I haven't given it any thought at all as long as it works. Trigger pull is a different animal all together. That is something to which I paid great attention professionally and recreationally. And even there, once it was where it needed to be it became a function of muscle memory. If you asked me the differences in trigger pull for firearms I own I could give you descriptions of each. Ask the same questions about my radio PTT I could only tell either it works or doesn't. Of course now, at least for a while, I will pay attention, maybe.

I haven’t thought about it. I could see either too light or too heavy being objectionable, but none of the radios I have bother me.

I always use GMRS properly. I Never, never never put the antenna in my mouth when I push the transmit button.

I use GRMS "properly" I ID with my call-sign every 15 minutes during transmissions and at the conclusion of my conversations. I use a part 95 GMRS radio and adhere (because it is built in) to the channelized frequencies in the way they are intended to be used, with the proper wattage on those channels. I also do not use my radio to cause jamming or intentional interference for other users and repeaters. I talk to friends i know and new friends I have met in the repeater club that I have come to know through conversation, even if I have never met them face to face. So... is that what you mean?

"Properly" = I have a GMRS license and I push the PTT button on a part 95 radio. Ok...well...

By the grace of mine own self-worth and sarcasm and by the bounteous authority vested in me, THE QUEEN OF ALL THAT IS GMRS, I doth hereby decree, with much pomp and stupidity, that one @SteveShannon, a stout fellow of questionable repute but unquestionable GMRS knowledge, be forthwith and forevermore dubbed a member of the Most Esteemed Order of the HERD (which, perchance, standeth for “Higher End Radio Dork,) Let it be known across the static-ee airwaves of the peasantry to the lofty frequencies of the saddest of H.A.M.s that Sir StevenShannon, clad in naught but his wits and an FCCs permission slip, hath stumbled bravely and fortuitously into the fray of tomfoolery and emerged victorious—or at least not entirely trampled. With this proclamation, he is granted the sacred right to put the title "HERD" after his name, to wield a UV-5R on GMRS channels, and to confuse all who inquire as to what a “HERD” truly be. So sayeth I, THE QUEEN OF ALL THAT IS GMRS on this fifth day of March, in the year of our Lord XENU two thousand and five-and-twenty. Let the roger-beeps blare, and may the Sad H.A.M.s tremble in his presence ! So it is written, so shall it be done. Arise good Sir @SteveShannon, member of the HERD!

For GMRS, the usual offset (it’s not in the rules, but it is the common practice) is to transmit to the repeater 5.000 MHz above the frequency the repeater transmits on. The rules require that you transmit to a GMRS repeater on one of the eight 467 MHz Main Channels and that the repeater transmit on one of the 462 MHz Main Channels. To make things easy the programming for certified radios always uses a 5.000 MHz offset. So the pair you program in a radio that uses the repeater will receive on 462.675 MHz and transmit on 467.675 MHz. So the repeater must receive on the 467 frequency and must transmit on 462 MHz. For a user radio you MUST program the correct transmit tone, in your case 123.0 Hz. Programming a receive tone is optional. Leaving it empty will allow you to hear everything on that frequency and might help you troubleshoot. For the repeater you program both if that’s what you want. If you don’t program a receive tone on the repeater anyone will be able to activate it. The 0.600 MHz offset is standard for VHF radios, such as 2 meter ham bands. Welcome, @WRTQ263! One really nice feature of the forum is the ability to add people to your ignore list.

I've got a Retevis RT97 10 watt repeater hooked to the MA09 antenna that came bundled with it. The antenna is 43' AGL on the highest point of my property. I was able to communicate with a friend on his mobile rig over 11.5 miles away. Having said that, there are valleys much closer to me than that and no communication is possible to those low lying areas. Still, I can get several miles in all directions with this setup. It runs off of a 30 amp-hour battery connected to a 100 watt solar panel. Also, not that you need more power, but, Retevis announced the RT97L which is an updated version of their portable repeater. It is rated at 25 watts. It is supposed to be in stock on April 4 this year. If nothing else this may allow you to buy an RT97/RT97S at a discounted price, maybe even get a used one from someone that is upgrading.

Well, of course, I hope we all know that, but I always like to check things out for myself, if practical. It is certainly possible that in different terrain, I may have found one antenna definitely superior to the others. The takeaway for me was that for what I want to do, my farz will be acceptable no matter which antenna I choose. Interestingly, I have used a 70cm repeater 20 miles from my house with a 2 watt Arcshell AR-5 and rubber duck antenna. The signal report was "almost full quieting". My house is in an elevated position with essentially nothing between my yard and the repeater. The Arcshell is the poster child for "cheap Chinese radio" and is practically disposable, but it does put out a decent signal.

This is true. I would love to run my Comet 2x4SR on my Escape but it's just too tall to fit into my garage or into any parking garages. We all go with what works best for our situation. I can definitely get buy with using the SBB1 if I wanted to but I like running a dual band and GMRS radio in my car so I run separate antennas.

It’s actually fine according to the rules.

I only have the Comet SBB1. My results are smilier for GMRS and 70cm but mine does better on 2m than what yours does. Using your numbering system. I would say my SBB1 is 2 for GMRS and between 2 and 3 for 2m and 70cm. The highest SWR I have seen when testing with a Comet CAA-500 and Rig Expert Stick Pro is 1.8 at 467 MHz. Everything else for 462 MHz, 70cm and 2m is 1.6 or lower. We could test several of the exact same antennas and get different results for each one. The worst antenna I have and don't use is the Nagoya UT-72G. These are not NMO mount antennas, or at least mine isn't. They attach to the magnet mount using SMA connectors. My Melowave Shadow outperforms my UT-72G. I am currently using a Tram 1174 NMO antenna that I cut/tuned for GMRS and the SWR on it is 1.4 on 467 and 1.2 on 462. I get about 30-35 miles range using the Tram 1174 and Comet SBB1 on UHF and 55-60 miles on 2m when using our local repeaters. I get around 5-8 miles range on UHF when using simplex and 18-25 miles on 2m simplex. Again it depends on the terrain around me at the time. This is not bad for short 20 inch or less antennas.

Good hands-on real-world testing yielding meaningful and actionable data! Thanks!

Nice job! I really appreciate the fact that you didn’t get bogged down in reporting the decimal place for SWR. Way too many people look at 1.59:1 vs 1.51:1 and think it’s meaningful. The way you did it is good enough.

I did. But that doesn't mean much. I just posted in a thread about the Baofeng AR-5rm having a hair trigger ptt. I have accidentally tx several times just from normal handling. It's one of the only things I don't like about that radio. Sure, this may not be the most exciting or thought-provoking subject on the forum, for some, but at least its radio related. Now, I'm not trying to put you down by asking this. What are some topics that you do like to talk about here? Maybe I could do a search for threads that you have started. I wouldn't mind getting to know you better. You seem to have very strong opinions about GMRS. So, I assume that it's based on experience. Since I am very new to anything beyond using a "walkie talkie", learning from others is appealing to me. But, if you'd rather tell me to get bent, that's okay too. I'll still try to be nice.

Well, I'm a newbie to GMRS. I started using radios in the military. Fairly strict radio discipline there. When CB's started to get popular I joined REACT but that pretty much died when CB became so popular the airwaves became worse than crowded L A freeways. So I quit except for off roading. Decided after seeing how cellphones became useless after a disaster to get back into radio. Heck, even without repeaters a message could be handed of from users to user and passed a long way. Did some of that with REACT.

Hearing the dispatcher say "All units, open mic" induced a kind of a sick feeling until you realized it wasn't you. When it was determined everyone was ok and accounted for, and that is was a bonehead mistake, then the fun began. When I started and for most of my career cell phones weren't a thing and cars didn't have computers mounted in them. Now days all of the handhelds are identifiable and assigned to a specific individual. Much better for officer safety. I don't think I have ever had an open mic with my amateur or GMRS radios.

First of all thanks! You have introduced me to PTT hysteresis, which I didn't know was a thing until now. A PTT button requiring more force to depress, but less to hold down seems ideal to me. I checked the radios I measured and unfortunately only the BAOFENG UV-9G feels to me like the PTT is easer to hold down than to push.

I haven't really considered the advantages of dual PTT, until your post. Looking your Wouxun KG-Q10H/G dual PTT placement it's a good design. Having two buttons, one above the other, is obvious, but Wouxun also provides space between them and roughly align each with their correspond half of the display. My guess is with just a few minutes, using the dual PTT would feel natural. Is that consistent with your experience?

Hey Andy, I'm pretty sure you were my first ever GMRS contact. Thanks for responding to my radio check last night. I haven't heard much traffic in this area at all. It would be nice if there was a Lexington area repeater. Might have to work on that... Anyway, I'm new to GMRS, so thanks again. Trying to get my family interested right now. We're spread out in Red Bank and West Columbia. Steve

What I find FUNNY about you is that even blocking you, doesn't prevent me from seeing your post....

Only if schizophrenia is involved. Actually I think I’m honor bound to defend the queen, now that I’ve been dubbed. How dare you suggest such a thing sir?! I challenge you to a duel! Tape measure antennas at dawn!

I scan while mobile, and talk to complete strangers, riding off road with my very expensive Midland MXT400. Just bouncing along hardly ever using call signs on the FRS channels like a bunch of rich kids with no regard for authority. But on the open road, yea we follow the rules as best we can talking to people we "think" we know but haven't met yet!

I also have permission to this repeater and based on my settings you are missing a few things. Send me a message and we can trouble shoot.

Lscott is correct. Yes RG58 has high losses on UHF. But most vehicle installations will only use an average of 12 feet of coax. You can easily make up for any loss with a good well tuned antenna with some gain. I did the calculations for 12 feet of RG58 and antenna with 2 dBd of gain and an SWR of 1.8. You will be pretty much break even on power output. I used both 20 watt and 50 watt output for the calculations. 12 feet of RG58 with a 2 dBd gain antenna with SWR of 1.8 output power is ERP (effective radiating power) 50 watt radio = 53.7 watts ERP 20 watt radio = 21.5 watts ERP As you can see, as long as your antenna has an SWR of 1.8 or less and at least 2 dBd of gain then you will be fine using 12 feet of RG58. I used 12 feet since most magnet mounts come with 12 feet of coax. Most manufacturers list the gain in dBi and most loss calculators use dBd. Subtract 2.14 from the dBi value to get the dBd value. https://kv5r.com/ham-radio/coax-loss-calculator/

Well last year I bought some Baofengs and BTECH UHF/D Amps to bump the transmit power and several styles and types of antennas and tested simplex mode range within the City of NY from our base of operations and we have been able to reach about 7 Miles from base to where we want to be able to reach in the event cell service / internet goes down. We joined a club to get access to a greater range repeater system but since we are able to run comms within areas we need to hit immediately, the only person that interfaces with the club community is me and I mainly only jump on the repeater if they change access tones and to participate in the net. Other than that GMRS is a tool for the shtf which is presently more likely. After I get the 1st ticket, then the HF tools will come in even more handy.

Some people say they only use GMRS radio for communications while pursuing their hobbies. What if their hobby is talking to random strangers?