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Man, I can tell none of you have ever had to deal with this from the repeater owner's prospective. I have.... I submitted so many complaints that I lost track, with evidence, about a specific person causing harmful interference for almost a year. Almost all of my complaints went ignored (zero response) except for one. The one response I got was that as the owner, it was my responsibility to manage who used my repeater. So, they are off 99% of the time. And after several years, when this @$$H0l3 realizes my repeater is online, he starts jamming it again. I can't leave it on for more than a day or two. This isn't an "I think". "I heard", "the AI Overloads said so"... I lived it. @OffRoaderX is the only other person I know that went through it, too... and he has told you his relatively similar experience several times in many threads.

FFS, some people are just incapable of not bringing their own personal political BS into every space and every argument. really added to the conversation there... My wife works in a legal adjacent field and has for many many years, I decided to ask some of her lawyer colleagues for their take, please note: these are lawyers but not specialists in this area, this is not legal advice, I am not your lawyer. etc. etc. 1. Federal communications law (FCC) > preempts state law when it comes to spectrum use and radio operation. States cannot create backdoor control of radio spectrum via trespass or property theory. Courts have consistently recognized this principle in communications related cases. 2. Trespass theory is legally flawed: Trespass requires unauthorized physical entry onto: real property, or a defined physical structure. Using radio waves does not constitute entering real property. No court has ever recognized RF signal reception as physical entry. If it did, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, broadcast TV, FM radio, GPS, and cellular would all create constant trespass claims.There is no legal mechanism to “trespass” someone via RF propagation. 3. Trespass is about land or physical structures. There is no recognized doctrine of “electromagnetic trespass.” Courts have repeatedly rejected: light trespass (except zoning disputes), sound trespass, radio trespass. These are handled, when at all, under nuisance law, not trespass. 4. Repeater is private property =/= universal protections Yes: The repeater hardware is private property. No: Property ownership does not extend to spectrum, property rights do not override FCC licenses or shared-frequency rules. Ownership gives you: the right to turn the repeater off, the right to reconfigure it, the right to physically restrict access to the site. It does not give you: control over who transmits RF signals in public spectrum, a cause of action against someone whose RF your receiver picks up. 5. Theft of service(s): not applicable theft of services generally requires: 1. a paid service, 2. deceptive intent, 3. circumvention of access control. GMRS repeaters: are not paid services by default, do not require authentication, are not FCC-recognized “communications services.” You cannot steal something that is not offered as a service, is not paid, is not access-controlled. 6. RF propagation / receiver responsibility: RF is intentionally non-exclusive, Receivers are responsible for rejecting unwanted signals. If your system retransmits unintended signals, that is a configuration issue, not a legal injury. This aligns with long-standing FCC doctrine: “The licensee must accept interference and manage their station accordingly.”

Had to specify radios for the MH-139A Grey Wolf helicopter, and its civilian affiliated missions......original specifications only stated "P25 compatible". Took a year to get some Collins engineers to understand: analog-conventional, Frequency Division Multiple Access (Phase 1), and Time Division Multiple Access (Phase 2). Once the Air Force got involved (and they realized I was retired and knew the Huey/and variant predecessor well), they let me go for the jugular and carotid.....educated a few engineers on trunked radio standards. 18 helicopters fielded and I am now educating some other engineers on "Flash"(ing) Motorola and affiliated radio hardware, for specific options (TDMA for example). The AeroConnect RT-7000 has a Motorola APX8000 card in it, with all the associated drama of the big /\/\ involved (as well as Cobham/AeroConnect). FRS/GMRS is being added to a zone for search and rescue, trunked P25 Phase 1/2 for interop with law enforcement, fire, and emergency medical in another, and other zones dictated by the helicopters home base. The last lesson will be the NIFOG (National Interoperability Field Operations Guide).

"Cheap" for my GMRS use case was to buy beat up Motorola XPR6550's off of ePay, ......must also add that I bought these a few years ago, notice the price is a bit higher now, as the dollar does not go as far as it did when I made the purchases. So ~$50-60 per radio and ~$35 per re-case kit. Gets you around ~$95-100 per XPR6550 UHF, then of course you must have the software and cables, which adds another $50 or so (software is free once you get a /\/\otorola account). Still prefer commercial radio for GMRs use over Baofeng, Wouxon, and others.....just due to build quality and transmit/receive sensitivity. Just starting out, a UV-5R is a good start. Until you want something better......

Boy, you go away for a few days, and the place turns into a circus!

Yeah, I ran into this in Pittsburgh. I asked for, and received permission to use a repeater. The guy was really nice and helpful, even going as far as offering an old Motorola mobile radio for use in my car. I did not take him up on it, but that was over and above, and very nice. One evening during the after work drive time, I followed what was common on that repeater and, using my call sign, announced that I was listening. I immediately got an angry response from one who told me I had the wrong repeater and basically told me to go away. I had the right repeater, and he wasn't the owner. I decided to stay away from repeaters, permission or not. The idiocy of the users turned me off.

If you were talking about ham radio I would agree that repeaters are used for communal purposes. Nothing in the regulations support that concept for GMRS. In fact the duties of the repeater owner as established in regulations include access control as listed below: Individual licensee duties. The holder of an individual license: (1) Shall determine specifically which individuals, including family members, are allowed to operate (i.e., exercise operational control over) its GMRS station(s) (see paragraph (c) of this section); (2) May allow any person to use (i.e., benefit from the operation of) its GMRS repeater, or alternatively, may limit the use of its GMRS repeater to specific persons; (3) May disallow the use of its GMRS repeater by specific persons as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section.

Does it though? Granted I didnt spend very much time, a quick "protege" search of LexisNexis turned up... nothing. Do you have something you've found that says otherwise? I would be very curious on the basis for relief.

Bottom line: While civil trespass to chattels could theoretically apply to intentional interference with a GMRS repeater, the strongest and most practical remedy is usually reporting the interference to the FCC, not pursuing a trespass claim. Many repeater owners also use technical measures (CTCSS/DCS tones, user IDs, remote shutdown) to limit abuse. Ya, so nothing can be done. The eff sea seas won't give you the time of day.

I found this interesting, a two-part question re trespass in general and then wrt GMRS in particular. Sounds like one could get an injunction in a civil proceeding (Trespass to Chattels) assuming the perp could be identified. https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_91beba1c-7122-4f65-81a4-c930615616fc I'm not an attorney, but I collect them.

So now we're talking about taking someone's car without permission and using law enforcement frequencies?

I am still in the "pair the blue dot every time" version myself.....forces me through a routine each morning. But, a co-worker has been playing around with the the new versions as well. Seems to go over well with the end users. Not sure how the camera is going to work out, many were worried when laptop computers had cameras by default too though. time will tell. (I actually had to place painters tape over some Motorola 6-bank chargers, as they had the second set of cups for the RSM's with cameras, some sites bought those while others did not, but all the 6-bank chargers were the same). Had to manage expectations for a short time, until budget caught up (private fire departments, we do not get grant money). The original end users of wireless remote speaker mics was forklift drivers, that had a problem with running over their radio after hooking up a towed load. Radio went on the forklift fender, was left and often run over by the towered load or the forklift itself. Replacing that wireless RSM was much cheaper than a radio. My use case came from me mentioning that I often broke wired remote speaker mics in armored military vehicle doors.....doors that would slide the coiled cord instantly. Do that a few times and a Bluetooth option looks cheap. Need to try on of the newer ones, once I get my hands on one.

I'm slightly confused by this statement. The Surecom SR-112 is a simplex “parrot” repeater controller. It records, then plays back incoming transmissions on a specified frequency. It’s meant to be connected to a handheld or mobile radio that acts as a simple portable simplex repeater. So are you saying that you are trying to hit your portable repeater from 35 miles away? If that’s the case you’d need that repeater set up to have its antenna a few hundred feet in the air to make it more than a few miles. If not, i think you might be using the SR-112 the wrong way, or don’t quite understand how the SR-112 actually works. I’ve built a solar powered ammo can portable repeater with the SR-112 myself. It’s great to extend comms a few miles when camping, fishing, etc, but it will not cover 35 miles without some serious height and a proper antenna. If you are trying to hit somebody else’s "full duplex" repeater, ditch the SR-112 from your configuration and just program the correct frequencies and input/output tones in to your mobile for that repeater.

I have a Solar powered GMRS Repeater set up for off grid communications in UP Michigan. Items included - powmr 45amp MPPT solar charge controller -$50 ebay 4 - 100watt eco worthy solar panels -$50 each =$200 total ebay Retevis RT97S - $350 amazon Raspberry pi /case -$50 amazon Att 4g Hotspot - $50 ebay 4g service not included Retevis GMRS Base Antenna -$70 amazon 12v 100ah self heating Lifepo4 Battery -$220 amazon say $1000 -$1200 when your all done with wires and brackets to set up everything comms will cover 5-10 miles easy runs 24/7 365 8watts in stand by - 25watts tx low power - 35watts tx high power (raspberry pi and hotspot are optional for controller) you only need the solar charge controller, repeater, antenna, battery, and solar panels to make it work with this set up it will use this many watts per hour 3watts in stand by 20watts tx low power 30 watts tx high power

Quick question: I’m waiting on the last few parts needed to stand up my repeater for the Spring Hill/Columbia area. Has anyone ever used the Auto-ID function for their repeater or have you just left it alone for everyone to follow the call sign ID procedure?

I know. I was just poking fun at the heavyweight legal scholars on the forum. And to be clear, I'm in no way minimizing jamming or taking their side at all. But the trespassing argument going on in this thread is absurd.

This is why I always said, if Yaesu would reverse engineer a Baofeng they would finally be able to build a real radio.

I was a Yaesu fanboy until I bought their FT-65. It is the perfect definition of "cheap Chinese Radio". The Baofeng AR-5RM transmits 10 watts, does not pick up interference from my computer monitor and suffers less from front-end overload. And 3 of them with 3800mah batteries are about the same price as the FT-65. Regarding the OP's question, the Wouxun KG-9UV series radios have one feature that I would not want to be without if handing radios to inexperienced and maybe easily excitable people (aka children). Using the CPS, the keypad lock can be configured to lock the keypad, but not the channel knob, giving everyone the option to change to a different channel if necessary. The downside of that radio series is that the price is approaching $200 for the GMRS version at BetterSafeRadios https://bettersaferadio.com/wouxun-kg-uv9gx-plus-gmrs-radio-shtf-scanner/ Dave M WSKN763 N8OAY

Well said.

Out of curiosity more than anything, I googled the workforce at the FCC. 1,500 employees as of 9/24. They don't have the manpower to enforce much of anything, I would imagine.

This is my point to all of this. There is nothing that will stop anyone from using your repeater. Literally nothing will be done. No amount of quoting fcc will change this. I think I made it pretty clear to use repeaters maturely. But if people don't, again, the fcc will do nothing.

Same here Marc.. We have been complaining about a local jammer for years and it's gotten zero attention from the FCC.

They are what the owner designates them as. Airways are communal, hardware isn't.

That is a false equivalence. Repeaters in GMRS are more communal than private. If you want a truely private radio experience then GMRS is not for you.

Very interesting discussion, for the most part, from which one must conclude that a GMRS licensee using a GMRS repeater without, or even against, permission is not violating either law or regulation. While I am not condoning doing so, and I am not a lawyer, consensus seems at worst it would be deemed inconsiderate. Repeater access tones can be detected and used even if unpublished. Unpublished repeater tones simply cannot confer exclusivity to GMRS repeater access unless regulations are revised to make that so. GMRS regulations simply do not confer such exclusivity. Transmitting an order for someone to stay off your GMRS repeater may not constitute interference as defined under FCC regulations but such a presumption is likewise inconsiderate at best. It is like the mean old man in the neighborhood where I grew up who would yell at us kids to stay off his sidewalk when we rode our bikes in front of his house. Just my opinion, but if you desire exclusive radio repeater operations you should apply for an exclusive use business frequency and invest in some encryption capability.

So I can take your car because I need it and haven't abused the privilege. It's private property and as soon as the owner says no you should comply with that. Airwaves are free, paid for components are not.

Cooperative use is huge in this case. The ops repeater owner is not acting cooperative. May disallow would only be acceptable if op was harmfully interfering with the repeater It shouldn't have to be any kind of debate. Repeaters are open to use until you abuse it. Even then it is extremely unlikely the fcc will do anything about it.

This is true, and sloppy wording on my part. the FCC does not make law, it however one of its duties is to enforce its authorizing laws and statutes passed by Congress... in theory.

It does though. And round and round we go.

It's not a FCC issue, it's a trespass issue. It doesn't matter what the property is.

Charging someone with a crime is the easy part, prosecute and convict would be the hard part especially circumstantial without the physical evidence. It really comes down who can articulate/bullshit their case better than the defending/respondent party.

In the incident I stated in my previous post, I had the evidence, and we were able to visually observe his act in progress. It did take approx. 3 months to make the arrest.

Transmit on a police repeater and see how fast they react to your trespass. So it does exist, just not for the little guy.

Feelings, of the hurt variety.

Oh. I have that disabled lol No I was looking at whatever else google decided to out. That said, criminal trespass is definitely a thing. But at least anywhere I've lived, it doesn't seem to include any language about radio repeaters. Fine: has anyone been tried civilly for trespass on a repeater? What damages would you claim? Because if neither is a thing near as I can find. Which begs the question: what are we even talking about here?

I see it the same as someone stealing welfare or other govt service. You don't normally pay for it, someone else does but the service you are taking with no compensation or permission is still costing someone else to have the service operate. Nothing is free. Still likely cost you more in legal fees to get them to stop than it's worth.

But a repeater is private property and subject to the protections that all property owners have, which are universally recognized within the U.S. but inconsistently enforced in practice: https://www.cato.org/cato-handbook-policymakers/cato-handbook-policymakers-9th-edition-2022/property-rights-constitution

I obviously don't know every law in every state, but I never heard of trespass for non-real property. There is a reason its called 'real' estate.

They make 2 BT speaker mics now (well technically 3 SVX). The new BT speaker mic for the Next is even better than the old unit. The new one I like the pairing is done once and never touch it where as the WM SM you had to touch blue dots every time you turn the radio on. The new SVX (w/built in body cam) also pairs once and done. As said I can get 100 yards on mine. I have been in a house and still connected to my vehicle in a driveway.

"Cheap" for my GMRS use case was to buy beat up Motorola XPR6550's off of ePay, then purchase the re-case kits from that Amazonian site. Ended up with six "new-ish" XPR6550 with a GMRs zone for about $50 each ($25 per case kit and 20-25 per main board). I do own an Anytone 878 variant, I think it has the blue button on top and definitely pre-satellite mode attempt. I think I have a GM-30 handheld as well, as it might have come with the DB-20 mobile. Still prefer to use Motorola though, much better audio and sensitivity. They are bigger, heavier, and when new, would have been considerably more expensive, but also made to higher/tighter tolerances than something made for a cheaper price point. I also buy former government agency Panasonic Toughbooks as well......let my taxes subsidize a better piece of hardware for its second life as a radio programmer.

Which is why I put up my own.

I hear this comment often on this forum. One main sticking point most don't consider is during an emergency there is likely a power outage. Most repeaters have no emergency power backup so when the SHTF the repeater will likely go down just when you need it. You should plan on simplex type communications. If by some luck there is a repeater with standalone backup power it might be reserved for emergency traffic only. Trying to contact family members likely wouldn't count. I had that experience back in 2003, the great North East black out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003 I found a local Ham UHF repeater that was up and running, didn't hear any traffic at the time, and wondered if anybody else happen to be on the air. Made a general call using my HT. A few seconds later got told in no uncertain language it was reserved for emergency traffic only. Oops. Signed off immediately. After that I put up a portable mast, about 20 feet, with a small dual band antenna on it. At the time I lived in a ground floor apartment so it was easy to do. Ran the cable out the front room window. Spent the time monitoring the 2M calling frequency and several of the local police dispatch channels. Had a few gell-cell battery packs, with a 12VDC adapter, to keep the HT powered up for extended time periods. On receive with no audio the HT wasn't that much of a power hog. Now I have a collection of LFP, Lithium Iron Phosphate, battery packs (3.3AH to 40AH), LFP specific MPPT charge controllers and solar panels from 5 watts to 100 watts to keep them charged. Now if the power dies I have enough battery power to keep the cell phone charged, an HT up and running along with a few LED lights around the house. I have basically nothing in the fridge so that's not a concern. The fireplace is gas so I'll have heat in the extreme case when it's really freezing outside. If the situation last more than a few days to a couple of weeks then you have maybe more to worry about, like uninvited visitors who want your stuff.

Yep. I brushed against that lightly. The Jackwagon attitude isn't a part of the FCC regs for either service. Where ever you have people, be it on the internet or out there in public or on the airwaves you will find these type of people. I failed. I shall crawl back beneath my rock now.

Nope, sorry can't use it. It's already used in Holyoke, Mass. Listen to that frequency for a couple days and see how active it is. If it's fairly dead then it's probably a good candidate for use in your area.

Hey there @WRXD746. I split off this question into it's own post since we try to keep the new member check-in post pretty stream-lined to .......well, new member check-ins. I'm sure you understand . That said, who can help 746 in his repeater setup quest?

GMRS20 / Ch20 I'm going to bet is a simplex channel. Try RPT20 (if that's what it's called) or probably Channel 28. That'll be your repeater channel. Basically, you're listening to the repeater output but not talking on the repeater input on a simplex channel EDIT: Yep, just looked at the manual. You're looking for Channel 28 on that radio

It shouldn't. Doing so increases complexity and the risk that someone may not hear someone calling for help.