quarterwave

I have noticed the same. In my area there is an automotive supplier or two, and a hotel using FRS/GMRS channels and shouldn't be....however.....
 
With the rules change where FRS radios can use the GMRS mains at 2 watts....you don't know who is legal and who is not. I say about 50/50 illegal (seller put them on GMRS), and then business using FRS because it is cheap on equipment...even though it's not right, it is legal. I hope they get tired of replacing junk radios and buy some real ones and a license (part 90). 

GMRS requires a user license, FRS does not. FRS "Rules" are generally non enforceable.
 
 'FRS is licensed by rule. This means an individual license is not required to operate an FRS radio provide you comply with the rules. You may operate an FRS radio regardless of your age, and for personal or for business use if you are not a representative of a foreign government.'
 
And you are right...businesses need to be on MURS if they want cheap comms. 
 
Maybe the good thing is that most of the cheap radios that people buy from a "store" are good for 2 watts at best. Really what was done with the rules was to make what people were (uneducated about radio) doing illegally with store bought radios that did GMRS and FRS in being legal. The fcc should have never allowed combo radios to begin with. 
 

I was fixing to say he was actually hearing "intermod." Even some of my professional radios suffer from intermod while near downtown Chicago.

GMRS requires a user license, FRS does not. FRS "Rules" are generally non enforceable.
 
 'FRS is licensed by rule. This means an individual license is not required to operate an FRS radio provide you comply with the rules. You may operate an FRS radio regardless of your age, and for personal or for business use if you are not a representative of a foreign government.'
 
And you are right...businesses need to be on MURS if they want cheap comms. 
 
Maybe the good thing is that most of the cheap radios that people buy from a "store" are good for 2 watts at best. Really what was done with the rules was to make what people were (uneducated about radio) doing illegally with store bought radios that did GMRS and FRS in being legal. The fcc should have never allowed combo radios to begin with. 
 

GMRS requires a user license, FRS does not. FRS "Rules" are generally non enforceable.
 
 'FRS is licensed by rule. This means an individual license is not required to operate an FRS radio provide you comply with the rules. You may operate an FRS radio regardless of your age, and for personal or for business use if you are not a representative of a foreign government.'
 
And you are right...businesses need to be on MURS if they want cheap comms. 
 
Maybe the good thing is that most of the cheap radios that people buy from a "store" are good for 2 watts at best. Really what was done with the rules was to make what people were (uneducated about radio) doing illegally with store bought radios that did GMRS and FRS in being legal. The fcc should have never allowed combo radios to begin with. 
 

GMRS requires a user license, FRS does not. FRS "Rules" are generally non enforceable.
 
 'FRS is licensed by rule. This means an individual license is not required to operate an FRS radio provide you comply with the rules. You may operate an FRS radio regardless of your age, and for personal or for business use if you are not a representative of a foreign government.'
 
And you are right...businesses need to be on MURS if they want cheap comms. 
 
Maybe the good thing is that most of the cheap radios that people buy from a "store" are good for 2 watts at best. Really what was done with the rules was to make what people were (uneducated about radio) doing illegally with store bought radios that did GMRS and FRS in being legal. The fcc should have never allowed combo radios to begin with. 
 

Introducing yourself as the "FNG" was probably bold enough to break the ice. 

Ha ha! 
 
It just reminded me of a new employee I had (inherited from another location for the week, I did not hire him) at the radio shop way back in the day. He introduced himself as the FNG and then proceeded to say the words, to a customer no less. I sent him to my office and then home for the day. Dang kids... 

Ha ha! 
 
It just reminded me of a new employee I had (inherited from another location for the week, I did not hire him) at the radio shop way back in the day. He introduced himself as the FNG and then proceeded to say the words, to a customer no less. I sent him to my office and then home for the day. Dang kids... 

Advice: If no metal under the base, put some there, you need a ground plane, and I would solder a lead from it to the framework as well. Second, if you use a 1/4 wave...rip the ball off the end, you'll use far fewer or none. I took the ball off many times on tall trucks and equipment to keep them from being ripped by tree branches. 

I think the moral of the story is simplex repeaters are, with the exception of some testing, and niche applications, very tedious and awkward to use practically. If someone is looking for a reason not to invest in a regular repeater, a simplex repeater isn't it. 
 
From experience. I built an interface and used echo station to try one out some years ago. 

I would agree that in the letter of the rule, neither has priority. However... In practical use, I've had a license for about 25 years, and there may be 3 other legit guys within 25 miles of me with a license as well. With that said, channel usage is not a problem. Owning an expensive repeater, I simply don't care if some FRS-er is jacking around on their $22 radio, or a business just happens to start using 13 new radios they got at Menards or Walmart and think that gives them exclusive use on a certain channel. I use my repeater when I want to and they aren't going to get in my way. If I hear a licensed user, I'll give them room. 
 
There was a medical office on the same freq that I used for a secondary open repeater once, and I advised them they could not use GMRS (this was 10 years ago). They told me to "get off our headsets". No problem, I made the repeater ID every 15 minutes on the PL they were using. Didn't take long, they were gone. My theory is, file a complaint, we'll see who wins. 
 
It is amazing how much of an expert some people are on some things, they really are, but some of the same people pick up a radio....heaven forbid a UV5-R, and think they can just do anything they want. I make the analogy that you can buy a Mustang that goes 150 Mph...but you aren't allowed to do that on the Highway. 

Its not the tone/CTSS creating the potential issues you mention, it's stupid people that are too lazy to invest 3 minutes of their life to read the directions and learn/understand how their equipment works that are the problem..

Most of them use FRS Channel 1 Tone 1 and believe they are on a completely "private" channel. 

I can't remember the brand and model, but I bought one to do this (Severe alerts only for 2 counties) and I made sure it had both a relay output and EOM reset. 
 
Mine is hooked to a control station (old M100 Motorola mobile on a power supply) via COR from the relay out. The TOT is set to 45 seconds...Not that my MTR2000 repeater would care...but it is nice to have on there when we are farming in the Spring and Fall. 
 
There are no competing repeaters on the same channel in my area, so it's never been a problem. 

Most of them use FRS Channel 1 Tone 1 and believe they are on a completely "private" channel. 

Amen, Corey. 

Amen, Corey. 

Why does every new license holder want to setup a repeater? I would like to shed a little light on some of the important things to consider if you recently got your GMRS license and now want your own repeater.
 
First thing to consider, are there any open well placed repeaters in your area that you are able to use? I can assure you most repeater owners want people to use there repeater. Owning several repeaters I can assure you all are welcome and encouraged to use my machines.
 
Do you have access to a location to host your repeater? If your answer is your garage roof you should reconsider. Your garage roof will give you about the same coverage as simplex. Unless you’re on top of a mountain and all your users are at the bottom you will never be happy with this setup.
 
GMRS is not as popular as one would like to think, unless your repeater covers 20 miles or more you may find you only have 1 or 2 users in the area. Unless you already have a group of friends together you may want to consider this before spending money on a decent well positioned site to install your repeater.
 
So you found a nice high site and the price is right, all you need to do is get the repeater installed, sounds simple right? Some thigs to consider first and foremost are the costs because they can add up quickly. Are you on a commercial tower that requires a license and bonded climber? If so this could be by far your largest expense depending on your area. I have spent $600 to $1200 on a climber; I have had quotes as high as $2500 depending on the amount of work and heights involved.  Keep in mind commercial sites require certified mounts, hard line cable, cable clamps, engineered grounding solutions and commercial grade antennas. No tower owner is going to let you install a comet antenna and 200’ of braided shield coax.
 
This brings me to my next point, the antenna. Because of the costs involved with climbers you will want to expend your budget on the antenna. Remember a $2000 repeater on a $200 antenna is going to work about as good as a $200 repeater.  Whereas a $200 repeater on a $2000 antenna is going to work like a $2000 repeater. On my first repeater I was gifted use of a 150’ tower, I installed a DB-420 on the top and 160’ of 7/8 hardline. Total cost of equipment for the antenna install was $2500, with the climbers labor coming in at an additional $800. This left me with enough to purchase an old Motorola R100 repeater running at 25W. To my surprise it had 30 miles of coverage, all due to the cash spent on the antenna and waiting for a decent spot.
 
Things happen, more so if you have an antenna 200’ in the air with a conductive cable connected to sensitive electronics. Antenna issues, feedline issues, repeater issues all cost money and I promise at some point you will have issues that need repair and require your money!
 
It is my opinion that the GMRS community does not need another 2 to 5 miles repeater as it just becomes background noise. What use is a public listed repeater if somebody in a mobile can’t use it 5 miles away while moving or the portable coverage is only a mile? If after reading this you are still going to build a repeater for your garage more power to you, just don’t expect 20 people to show up if it only reaches a mile.
 
As the owner of several GMRS and Commercial repeaters I can attest to the amount of money and effort go into my repeaters. I have only touched on the basics, if you add in any kind of testing services, duplexer tuning, addition of a combiner channel to an existing tower system, RF engineering, rent and insurance your costs can sky rocket. The best advice I can give any new licensee is to try and use the available systems in the area. Take the time to learn a little about what you’re doing and to assess the usability of the service before investing in a repeater for the sole reason of saying you own one.

Oh give them 20 years or so... 
 
If you are new to GMRS and radio all together.... keep in mind many who have been at this for years in all forms of radio have a "common sense" approach to things...goes with that "spirit" of the rule type deal. There are 20 guys a day that get into GMRS and think they have found some incredible new discovery in capability that no one else has thought of....but it isn't practical, isn't legal, and doesn't meet the common sense test. 

Oh give them 20 years or so... 
 
If you are new to GMRS and radio all together.... keep in mind many who have been at this for years in all forms of radio have a "common sense" approach to things...goes with that "spirit" of the rule type deal. There are 20 guys a day that get into GMRS and think they have found some incredible new discovery in capability that no one else has thought of....but it isn't practical, isn't legal, and doesn't meet the common sense test. 

Mains (462.550, 462.575...) are 25KHz spacing. Bandwidth is 20KHz (2.5kHz guard on either side). Just set it for Wideband and it will use 5KHz deviation and you'll be fine. 
 
ERP is not the concern, the FCC spec is a max of 50 watts at the connector, so any electrical gain in the antenna design is fine. I run a 1/4 wave (0 gain) on vehicle, but my repeater antenna is a ASP805 which is 10dB gain. My output is 50 watts, but my ERP is something like 300. Rule is 50 at the radio (or out of the Duplexor).
 
http://antennas.ca/calc_ERP.htm

Mains (462.550, 462.575...) are 25KHz spacing. Bandwidth is 20KHz (2.5kHz guard on either side). Just set it for Wideband and it will use 5KHz deviation and you'll be fine. 
 
ERP is not the concern, the FCC spec is a max of 50 watts at the connector, so any electrical gain in the antenna design is fine. I run a 1/4 wave (0 gain) on vehicle, but my repeater antenna is a ASP805 which is 10dB gain. My output is 50 watts, but my ERP is something like 300. Rule is 50 at the radio (or out of the Duplexor).
 
http://antennas.ca/calc_ERP.htm

Mains (462.550, 462.575...) are 25KHz spacing. Bandwidth is 20KHz (2.5kHz guard on either side). Just set it for Wideband and it will use 5KHz deviation and you'll be fine. 
 
ERP is not the concern, the FCC spec is a max of 50 watts at the connector, so any electrical gain in the antenna design is fine. I run a 1/4 wave (0 gain) on vehicle, but my repeater antenna is a ASP805 which is 10dB gain. My output is 50 watts, but my ERP is something like 300. Rule is 50 at the radio (or out of the Duplexor).
 
http://antennas.ca/calc_ERP.htm

WQOM273 , whose email doesn't seem to work and his website is dead...has 20 repeaters listed in rural areas, I am 10 miles from one, and if it were on the air, I could hear it...but I have never heard it. 
 
I would question if these sites even exist or this is another day dreamer channel camping with listings all over the database here. They are also all listed as private, pay to play.
 
You can tell your friends you drive a Ferrari, but eventually they want to "see" it....