gortex2

You are asking a lot for 150 bucks, quality components and engineering cost money. The small profit margin would require every GMRS license holder in the US to purchase several 150 dollar radios just to recover the engineering costs let alone the rest of the expense of bringing a product to market. Its simple economics and GMRS is to little of a market share to invest in.

Its been my experience that everybody wants to own a repeater till they have to maintain it or pay tower rent. Also Lot's of people build small repeaters with low power radios using cheep duplexes with low antenna height. I decided to hunt down some of the machines in our area only to find "GARAGE" repeaters, (3' antenna on a 3' tripod on somebody's house roof) over half with less coverage then what you could work simplex from a base but listed at 35 miles of coverage. I can not understand why people put repeaters into service that don't cover any useful area and then list them on myGMRS. I would bet a lot of the machines listed are no longer on the air or have a tiny foot print. I would also bet when somebody takes a repeater down the listing remains.
 
Here is some other food for thought. Several of us in the WI, IL and IN area have linked a system of repeaters together on the myGMRS network. Our system of 5 machines is open to any licensed user and covers a few 1000 sq miles of area and it yet it has only 18 users. I promise it is not because the machines are junk but rather the limited number of GMRS users. I know Rich is working on something new and he is well aware of the dead listings, we will just have to wait and see.
 
Just my $.02

Lets just go for the APX 8000 4 Bands in 1 Radio: 7/800 MHz, VHF and UHF even includes P25.
 
For the guy that had everything
 
​Its only a second mortgage away!

Over the past few days, I have seen posts popping up with the title card "looking for a repeater near ____"

I have answered a couple of them thinking it was just a new user who wasn't sure how the site worked yet, but being there has been an increase in these posts I figured I would make a quick post about it.

The Admins and Mods that run the forum have made it clear that they DO NOT WANT REPEATER INFORMATION TO BE RELEASED ON THE FORUMS! This is to cut down on non-licensed transmissions on active repeaters. This means no member will post a repeaters frequencies or tone codes in a post.

However, there are tools that MyGMRS provides to you once you prove you have your license so that you can find repeaters near you. First there is the repeater directory which can be found here; https://mygmrs.com/browse This allows you to search by state, frequency, if the repeater is open to the public or not, and will give you most of the information you need to get into a repeater. Likewise it is handy to determine what frequencies are available if you wish to open your own system. Second is the map; https://mygmrs.com/map Which allows you to look at a map of the US and find repeaters that way. Note, you may still need to look up the repeater in the directory to get tone info and request access.

If you can hear a repeater on your radio but cant find it on MyGMRS.com, your next bet would be to scan the tones to see if you can find the one they are using, send your callsign over, and inquire about the repeater to find out if its open access or private use. If you remain respectful, the members usually wont give you a hard time and often will explain how to get permission to use a private repeater.


 

You are asking the same question that this entire topic is about, I have also provided an answer to your question and here it is again. Echolink is HAM, this is GMRS. Most of the HAM linking systems are based on Asterisk using the Allstar network. Asterisk is the same system that is being used to link GMRS repeaters using the network here at MyGMRS or one of the other GMRS networks that has been set up. Some allow simplex nodes some don't. The MyGMRS network is repeaters as they are more useful. I would suggest you go back an read whats already been posted as your question has been answered already. As well this forum has a topic dedicated to just this... Below is the link you could have found by reading my other post or simply using the forums search box at the top of the page. I don't mind helping or answering anybody's questions so long as you first attempt to find the information on your own. Answering the same questions over and over because people don't want to take the time to look is annoying and a big turnoff.
 
https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/295-repeater-linking-discussion/

Quietly moving us to narrow band....

I do have one of those smaller Midland Micro-mobiles, (5-watt version) and they are not really a bad little radio. The weak link in the chain is the crappy little antenna that is provided by Midland. Even Midland's "Upgrade" antennas are junk.  I am using a cheap Tram-Browning UHF antenna on my Midland, and it works vastly superior to the Midland stock mag mount.
 
I think the biggest problem with the Midland antennas is the fact they use that small-sized RG-176-type coaxial cable. I have not measured it, but I'll bet the loss is somewhere around 60-70% of your signal.
 
You can get a solid signal out with a cheap radio and a good antenna, but if you put a crappy antenna on a 100 Watt Motorola, you still can't talk anywhere.  Antenna and coaxial cable quality is VERY important in radio communications.  One size does NOT fit all applications. Make sure you are using the correct type of antenna for your vehicle or application.... such as a half-wave no-ground-plane type antenna for that ragtop mentioned earlier.

We are using Asterisk as the server (running on a raspberry pi 3) and the RTCM made by micro-node. Cheaper hardware solutions vs the RTCM are available but require other configuration. I have not used any of the other hardware so I wont touch on that. I chose the RTCM for its single unit design and application specific properties. The interfacing with the RTCM is rather simple, I went with the MTR2000 repeater for reliability, full duty cycle and used market availability. 
 
Our group hosts its own local node server (Asterisk running on a raspberry pi 3) with 6 repeaters connected to it. This local node also allows us access to the MyGMRS national linking network hosted by the owner of this site. By entering commands in Asterisk or using DTMF,  links to other systems can be connected or disconnected on the fly. Things like usage counters and the visual map show links with red lines as well as what site is transmitting by changing its marker from green to red, all of this in real time.
 
Its not as hard as it sounds, Rich from MyGMRS was a huge help, you can also find a linking thread in the private section here. Along the way I found a company that was able to build a custom cable for interfacing the MTR2000 with the RTCM, it provides a reliable solution that's repeatable and works flawless. The MTR2000 repeater can be configured to work with the RTCM rather simply using the repeaters wire-line card to handle the audio and the 96 pin J5 connector to pull ctcss, core, ptt and power.
 
We are using the RTCM and MTR at 6 sites with a stand alone MTR at a 7th and could not be happier. These machines are worth every penny, its not 2 mobiles in a box its a true full duty cycle, commercial grade repeater. Due to the simplicity I have several more RTCM / MRT2000 combos ready to go I just need to fined a few more tower sites with internet.
 
Hope this answers a few questions.

That's not a mobile repeater in that pic, its a HAM operating HF. As far as a mobile repeater it really is a waste of time. I have done this already and it was a total disappointment.. Unless your car is at a substantial height advantage you will not have any better coverage then simplex. Again you can and will try to explain or reason away my logic without listening to what I and others have been trying to tell you. I have tried the mobile repeater, the setup was a 50W Motorola SLR 5700 with a 4 cavity BP/BR duplexer connected to a 5.5dB gain antenna on the top of my truck. After testing for about month I realized it had no practical use and only offered slightly more range than simplex, best part I ended up needing a jump after a day at the fair. Mind you this was a $2400 repeater, $800 duplexer with an antenna that was tuned using an Anritsu S331D. I promise I nor anybody on this site will try to steer you wrong, I hold a Commercial, Amateur and GMRS license, own and operate several large repeaters and have all the gear for building, testing and maintaining these kinds of systems.

Why does every new license holder want to setup a repeater? I would like to shed a little light on some of the important things to consider if you recently got your GMRS license and now want your own repeater.
 
First thing to consider, are there any open well placed repeaters in your area that you are able to use? I can assure you most repeater owners want people to use there repeater. Owning several repeaters I can assure you all are welcome and encouraged to use my machines.
 
Do you have access to a location to host your repeater? If your answer is your garage roof you should reconsider. Your garage roof will give you about the same coverage as simplex. Unless you’re on top of a mountain and all your users are at the bottom you will never be happy with this setup.
 
GMRS is not as popular as one would like to think, unless your repeater covers 20 miles or more you may find you only have 1 or 2 users in the area. Unless you already have a group of friends together you may want to consider this before spending money on a decent well positioned site to install your repeater.
 
So you found a nice high site and the price is right, all you need to do is get the repeater installed, sounds simple right? Some thigs to consider first and foremost are the costs because they can add up quickly. Are you on a commercial tower that requires a license and bonded climber? If so this could be by far your largest expense depending on your area. I have spent $600 to $1200 on a climber; I have had quotes as high as $2500 depending on the amount of work and heights involved.  Keep in mind commercial sites require certified mounts, hard line cable, cable clamps, engineered grounding solutions and commercial grade antennas. No tower owner is going to let you install a comet antenna and 200’ of braided shield coax.
 
This brings me to my next point, the antenna. Because of the costs involved with climbers you will want to expend your budget on the antenna. Remember a $2000 repeater on a $200 antenna is going to work about as good as a $200 repeater.  Whereas a $200 repeater on a $2000 antenna is going to work like a $2000 repeater. On my first repeater I was gifted use of a 150’ tower, I installed a DB-420 on the top and 160’ of 7/8 hardline. Total cost of equipment for the antenna install was $2500, with the climbers labor coming in at an additional $800. This left me with enough to purchase an old Motorola R100 repeater running at 25W. To my surprise it had 30 miles of coverage, all due to the cash spent on the antenna and waiting for a decent spot.
 
Things happen, more so if you have an antenna 200’ in the air with a conductive cable connected to sensitive electronics. Antenna issues, feedline issues, repeater issues all cost money and I promise at some point you will have issues that need repair and require your money!
 
It is my opinion that the GMRS community does not need another 2 to 5 miles repeater as it just becomes background noise. What use is a public listed repeater if somebody in a mobile can’t use it 5 miles away while moving or the portable coverage is only a mile? If after reading this you are still going to build a repeater for your garage more power to you, just don’t expect 20 people to show up if it only reaches a mile.
 
As the owner of several GMRS and Commercial repeaters I can attest to the amount of money and effort go into my repeaters. I have only touched on the basics, if you add in any kind of testing services, duplexer tuning, addition of a combiner channel to an existing tower system, RF engineering, rent and insurance your costs can sky rocket. The best advice I can give any new licensee is to try and use the available systems in the area. Take the time to learn a little about what you’re doing and to assess the usability of the service before investing in a repeater for the sole reason of saying you own one.

The biggest change was 24 channels used a channel number only, if you want an alias then it was 20 channels. 

It seems to me this has come up a few times over the last year . I always used the donation approach. I have alot of money invested in repeaters, antenna and cables. If folks want to donate great, if not its on me to cover the costs. I didn't put them on the air to make money, I put them there to use. If others can use it and can afford to help with electric or repairs great. If not its up to me. What your proposing is a LMR system. I for one dont believe in not letting folks use it if they can't afford it. 

It seems to me this has come up a few times over the last year . I always used the donation approach. I have alot of money invested in repeaters, antenna and cables. If folks want to donate great, if not its on me to cover the costs. I didn't put them on the air to make money, I put them there to use. If others can use it and can afford to help with electric or repairs great. If not its up to me. What your proposing is a LMR system. I for one dont believe in not letting folks use it if they can't afford it. 

It seems to me this has come up a few times over the last year . I always used the donation approach. I have alot of money invested in repeaters, antenna and cables. If folks want to donate great, if not its on me to cover the costs. I didn't put them on the air to make money, I put them there to use. If others can use it and can afford to help with electric or repairs great. If not its up to me. What your proposing is a LMR system. I for one dont believe in not letting folks use it if they can't afford it. 

It seems to me this has come up a few times over the last year . I always used the donation approach. I have alot of money invested in repeaters, antenna and cables. If folks want to donate great, if not its on me to cover the costs. I didn't put them on the air to make money, I put them there to use. If others can use it and can afford to help with electric or repairs great. If not its up to me. What your proposing is a LMR system. I for one dont believe in not letting folks use it if they can't afford it. 

I just want to know where all these people willing to pay a 100 per year to use the repeaters are! Lets face it, my network covers 3 states and several 1000 sq miles and we have 51 users. Anytime I have needed help with climbers or manpower its always my same core group standing in the driveway. What you are talking about is basically a part 90 community repeater service not GMRS. Again as i stated selling tones is not legal...nor welcome.
 
I would like to hear Pastor Gary's thoughts?

For the price of that you can get a way better repeater. I purchase Motorola MTR2000's in the 100W full duty cycle version for 600 all day on ebay and run them at 50W. We use 7 of them on our GMRS network, and I have 4 more in the garage looking for sites. You can not go wrong since these devices have been used on public safety and commercial trunking systems for years and are still in use today. Great equipment for the money.

So I'll throw something out on this topic. I agree the rules say not moving, etc. I have a repeater in my motor home. Its not used while i driving down the road because there is no need, nor do i have an antenna system that can stay up. Once i get to the campground or race track I set up my fiberglass stick, fire up the generator and i am on the air. To me this is a fixed location. Back in my early SAR days we also did a similar setup in our incident command post. While that had a mobile antenna for ease it also was only used once we got to a mission. Both my applications allow a decent install and to date i have had no issues with radios, power supplies or duplex failing me. SAR has since moved our repeater to public safety channels but is still used. 
 
So as you said what is the definition of fixed ? A non moving repeater is fixed in my case. 

My hunting trailer started life as a 16 x 7 ft enclosed insulated cargo trailer with windows. Power is 4, 6 volt pallet jack batteries connected parallel over series. 4 100 watt solar cells on roof. 4K cummings generator with 40 gal tank. (Mounted on flatbed 1 ton truck ) Radios in trailer, CB and GMRS. GMRS is a $400 dollar repeater made from two Motorola mobiles in a suitcase ( ebay). Every one we hunt with uses Btech gmrs v1 radios or the Betech 82hp. Having a repeater parked on top of a ridge gives solid coverage to both valleys on either side. As this is a trailer it is not used while moving. I belive this makes it a FIXED location while in use. (Hunting elk western Wa. State.)

So I'll throw something out on this topic. I agree the rules say not moving, etc. I have a repeater in my motor home. Its not used while i driving down the road because there is no need, nor do i have an antenna system that can stay up. Once i get to the campground or race track I set up my fiberglass stick, fire up the generator and i am on the air. To me this is a fixed location. Back in my early SAR days we also did a similar setup in our incident command post. While that had a mobile antenna for ease it also was only used once we got to a mission. Both my applications allow a decent install and to date i have had no issues with radios, power supplies or duplex failing me. SAR has since moved our repeater to public safety channels but is still used. 
 
So as you said what is the definition of fixed ? A non moving repeater is fixed in my case. 

95.1 The General Mobile Radio Serv- ice (GMRS).
(a) The GMRS is a land mobile radio
service available to persons for short- 
distance two-way communications to
facilitate the activities of licensees and
their immediate family members. Each
licensee manages a system consisting
of one or more stations.
 
GMRS is not a hobbyist service, it is not for expanding ambitions, it is not a place to push the state of the art forward. However, there is a place for that... Amateur Radio.  Per the FCC, Part of the Basis and Purpose of amateur radio is the: Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.  If those are your interests, get an amateur license.

Welcome to GMRS world. The tower stuff is a challenge and can be a handshake deal to a lease with a million dollar insurance policy. All depends on how hard you look. One thing I have noticed since I moved to the south is the amount of buildings with an old tower out back with no antenna or a damaged antenna on them. Alot of old car repair places, tractor supply and manufacturing buildings have them. Back home we found a warehouse that had multiple antennas on the roof. I was able to manage an agreement with the owner to use the UHF antenna for GMRS in trade for cleaning up the radio room and helping with some small projects. It worked well until he sold the building. The biggest issue with any tower owner is going to be access. The other thing many look for is done right work. Not saying it needs to be a $10,000 repeater but don't show up with 2 baofengs in a tupperware container. When doing the install use common sense and do what you can to make it correct. Proper cable, connectors, grounding is all key to a good working unit and a good looking unit. Another location I had one I was responsible for my own power. $35.00 a month i could do split between some buddies. 
 
I wouldn't even try to talk to American Tower or an of the big tower folks unless you have a few grand a month to burn a hole. Look for those like above. 

So here is my take on this as this has come up in the past.
 
I run my repeaters with the travel tone and other tones. If a user wants a specific tone in the past and wanted to donate to the "repeater" fund I gave them another tone. More of the community tone aspect. Rarely did anyone ask or pay but I suggested when possible. 
 
My entire reasoning is the power bill. It was $35.00 a month and I had to pay it. I didn't care who used what but if i could recoup a little of that money to help offset the cost I tried. I went round and round with a ham club in the past about a similar item. They basically wanted to be in the shelter on the tower and not help out with anything yet they charged all there members dues yearly....
 
By no means did we kick anyone off or block users for not helping. I think anyone with that mentality should not own a repeater.
 
As others have said in the past a repeater on a good tower can be very costly for the party that owns it. 

So here is my take on this as this has come up in the past.
 
I run my repeaters with the travel tone and other tones. If a user wants a specific tone in the past and wanted to donate to the "repeater" fund I gave them another tone. More of the community tone aspect. Rarely did anyone ask or pay but I suggested when possible. 
 
My entire reasoning is the power bill. It was $35.00 a month and I had to pay it. I didn't care who used what but if i could recoup a little of that money to help offset the cost I tried. I went round and round with a ham club in the past about a similar item. They basically wanted to be in the shelter on the tower and not help out with anything yet they charged all there members dues yearly....
 
By no means did we kick anyone off or block users for not helping. I think anyone with that mentality should not own a repeater.
 
As others have said in the past a repeater on a good tower can be very costly for the party that owns it. 

As you quoted a rule "wireline". My understanding is that is TELCO line to a transmit site. I know many GMRS systems that use Microwave on a voted system.