gortex2

We spent 6 months arguing over this before. Don't think we need yet another thread. Both points of view were discussed. Use a channel you want and go from there. 

Ya'll go ahead and discuss your silly games.
Off Road vehicles already have decided Ch 16 for the call channel.?

I would support the idea if it weren’t for the fact that 10 - 12 million people live far enough north that they are not allowed to use channel 19 because of an agreement with Canada.

Well I did it. I drilled 3 holes. My heart was pounding the hole time but it really wasn't too bad. I would do it again if I had to. Put some dielectric grease on the o-rings before tightening them down. As long as there's no leaks when it rains I'll be good. 
 

The coordinators use proprietary software that is available for license. The suite we used carried a $1500 a year license fee. The software was sophisticated enough that it could coordinate a trunked system using multiple sites and frequencies at the same time. Our advantage was we did the coordinations in house rather than farming them out to local, volunteer frequency advisors which often took months to complete. We processed over 95% of our applications within 3 days. 

@wayoverthere DMR sounds good when setup correctly and uses good radios. When DMR first got popular the only option was Motorola MotoTrbo repeaters and radios. None of the CCR market was building anything. Over time they did. I know of a few DMR repeaters that sound pretty good over the air. They are mostly MotoTrbo but some other LMR brands on the air also. On the other side there are a lot of "home brew" repeaters now on the air with MMDVM boards on analog radios. Most that get put up never get aligned or setup properly and don't have the audio quality of a LMR repeater. Mostly because many hams don't have the test gear required or the know how to set them up right.
Next issue is the subscribers. Again the CCR market has flourished and blanketed the market with cheap stuff. They don't sound as good and putting them over a home brew repeater makes it sound even worse. Some of us have learned the hard way after buying "economy" radios then spending a bit more on a true LMR radio the difference. Even though I have many high quality P25 radios I got suckered into the cheap DMR market when I wanted to dabble in DMR. Mostly because it was easy. The radio got used once. Its in a box. Sadly DMR is dead where I am so only listened when working in different cities. I did finally get an XPR7550 and its night and day from the MD I had. YMMV

I thought that way for a short period time and It was probably because of the ham crowd that I hung around with. When you look at any radio service out there, it's not the radio service that's the problem. It's the people involved in it. Ham radio can be the same way at times depending on the band. Sadly, I've heard stuff come over ham that made me cringe, because I have always operated it in a professional manner and always viewed it as a highly respected radio service. 

Up here in Maine there is a repeater 13 miles from me and one that is 65 miles from me. I live in an RF toilet bowl ( one of the lowest points in my area surrounded by tall hills) and I can hit the one 65 miles away, but I can't hit the one 13 miles away, all with a portable radio. UHF is more line of site with little curvature of the signal, meaning that, you can't have a lot of obstructions or you won't hit the repeater. In the same way, the repeater, the higher up it is, the farther away the signal will reach.
Also note too, on this site, I have come across many repeaters that claim a large area but in reality they may only reach that long in only a few directions due to terrain. Sadly, this site only shows a big circle around each site, not an actual specific mapped out area showing dead zones also. That's where some studying of the repeater signal will come into play. I do it with ham repeaters all the time and then just make a mental note of where the dead zones are. It helps if you are having a Convo mobile. You can pause your Convo until you get out of the dead zone. 

It would nice if they did. This topic should be split off into a separate thread.
However some of the benefits might be lost along the way, increased channel capacity and lower battery drain. People are confused enough trying to figure out repeaters, offsets and tones. Now you want them to understand talk-groups, color codes and time slots? I suspect if it ever does get approved it will look more like the DMR446 license free service you see in Europe as a DMR tier 1 service. There the radios transmit on both time slots I believe from a few websites I've been too looking for info. The later might be country specific. So much for added channel capacity and lower average TX power savings. What they do for talk-groups I'm not sure.
https://kenwoodcommunications.co.uk/files/file/comms/uk/pmr446/PMR446-White-Paper-V6_18AUG2016_JT_KB.pdf
They also have dPMR446 which uses FDMA, which is very similar to NXDN. Note they have several different codecs that can be used. You can find the Chinese dPMR radios, most are really DMR (TDMA) based, while a few are FDMA but use some Chinese specific version of a codec that is not compatible with the AMBE+2 you typically see in NXDN, P25 and DMR radios from the major manufactures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_private_mobile_radio
Confused? Yes they have three different modes used on their license free service, the equivalent to our FRS radios. It seems to work for them so I don't see why it won't here.

The only problem with listing them is really getting a repeater on the air. There are tons of repeaters on the list that have never went on the air. I'm all for adding if your seriously adding one, but if you dont have equipment or plans I'd wait. Too many people look at the repeater map and program a radio to use a repeater that's not there. With that said there are guys who spend alot on getting a repeater online and they do follow thru with the work. Dont want folks to think everyone lists and doesn't do the work. 

In my area of the country, many GMRS repeater owners state that they want users to refrain from using MDC, Talk Permit Tones, "Roger Beeps" or any other signaling, mostly due to the noise of those signals, or to keep Motorola users from "flexing" on other users......used to a thing in the past but surplus Motorola is also a lot more common now (as is other manufacturers including MDC in their products).
On my own Spectra repeater system, I do have MDC set, so I can see which radio is keying up the repeater by its Radio ID number (just me and my family using my radio net most of the time), but that is a private repeater and I want to know when some outside person is on the net. (Usually other guest users do not have MDC set up, so I see a "1" or "0000" come through). 

One reason why many people run their repeaters for their own use and others they trust only. This is a lot easier in the amateur bands as there are so many more options and variables. GMRS radio use, well, people can figure it out easily if they know what they are doing.....and more reason to not even acknowledge the trolls, jammers, or other people that mis-use the radio system in play. Sort of like school yard bullies, unless you are ready to draw blood to prove a point, you only feed them what they want, acknowledgement and the thought that they have power over you. I see this on here at times, people that bully others, to make themselves look more important, or reply with flippant answers, attempting to belittle others, this does impact the usefulness and utility of this site (and is most likely why it has not grown as quickly as other radio related sites). Great advice has been given, do not "feed" these people or it gets worse.
Some ways around this, use radios that have voice inversion (yes, some had/have this), do not acknowledge that you even hear these users, change channels, tones, or get off the air for a while. They do go away if they think they are unsuccessful. There will always be those that engage, and then rant about being jammed, trolled, or doxxed because of it, but it does not have to be you, if you keep it quiet. For clubs, business users, and individual families; bad news stays internal, good news goes public.

That’s my thought as well. If you’ve never put up a repeater, don’t list it prematurely; you don’t know what you don’t know. If you have done a half dozen successfully, go ahead and list it. 

The only problem with listing them is really getting a repeater on the air. There are tons of repeaters on the list that have never went on the air. I'm all for adding if your seriously adding one, but if you dont have equipment or plans I'd wait. Too many people look at the repeater map and program a radio to use a repeater that's not there. With that said there are guys who spend alot on getting a repeater online and they do follow thru with the work. Dont want folks to think everyone lists and doesn't do the work. 

It’s not that it’s too minor for the fcc to react. The restrictions in ham radio are against encryption, not proprietary technology. 
The debate seems to center around an opinion that proprietary standards amount to encryption and thus violate the spirit of ham radio. 
I thought GMRS users were also restricted from using encryption. If so, how is it different from amateur radio in allowing MDC?

So where in the rules does it say that ? Many folks use MDC as well as P25 and other signaling on amateur radio. Many folks use MDC on GMRS.

And who do you think would do this ? Cell companies dont care about critical infastructure at all. Its all the bottom line. I have seen some rough cell sites over the years. Many with no generators, small battery plants and horrible installs. Some good but the point is who is going to spend the money ? 
I get there is no "real" service to get help in an emergency but GMRS isn't it either. 

Well I have to say, I don't bash any service of radio. Ham radio as a whole has a lot to offer. Its some of the people that are into it that make issues, or in some cases, dont exist in emergency situations. When I first got licensed as a ham back in the 90's the following things really intrigued me and I tried so hard to get into them - Emergency communication, VHF/UHF radio work (all modes and different things involved), building antennas for on the go type situations, maintaining a portable station where I could be out in the middle of nowhere and still operate, Skywarn, and many other things associated with off grid/emergency type communications. In the end all I got was "are you going to upgrade your license and join us on HF?"

I even got the ol chuckle from those in public safety when mentioning how ham radio had a whole emergency communications aspect to it. What am I supposed to take all that as? It doesn't seem as though anyone really cares about ham radio or its ability in disaster situations. Maybe its the area I live in. Up here in the northeast most just rely on the national guard if something hit the fan, and now where I live in Maine, most people already live prepared for an emergency (which almost never happens) so no one really seems to care about communication. They all have cell phones. I know in other parts of the country, Ham Radio is used heavily in many types of emergencies, so I may be spouting my mouth off about only my little area. Going by what I have observed with my own eyes and ears, it honestly scares me if I relied fully on Ham radio for emergency communication. How I have seen Ham radio used in other areas of the country during the slightest of emergencies vs. how its been used in areas I have lived is a big difference. The lack of enthusiasm for the emergency communication aspect in addition to many other things is what caused me to take a back seat with Ham Radio. I still keep my equipment and license just in case and I still do experimenting on my own but I leave it as "It's there in case I need it". I still like to be prepared just in case.

I know, since this post, Ham Radio now costs for the license, but Ham Radio itself is NOT cheap, unless you go with a Chinese radio and stick with repeaters. If you upgrade and get into HF you are looking at thousands of dollars just to effectively communicate and run with the big boys. Its one of many things that turn me off about HF. The big thing about Ham Radio tests for people who just want to talk is that they don't want to have to learn all that technical radio stuff. They just want to use repeaters and talk. Of course, if you live in many areas, especially like I do in the northeast, repeaters are dead so getting into Ham Radio makes no sense unless you want to jump on HF and activate OTA stations. Seems like that's all Ham Radio is now. CONTESTS.

 
 
We're doomed if that's the case. If they behave like they have around me when bad weather pops up and Skywarn is supposed to be activated, You're better off tucking your head between your legs and kissing your butt goodbye. I have personally witnessed times where Ham Radio should have been used and it wasn't and it could have costed lives. Thanks to our reliable cell phone networks, people were properly warned.

Ham radio is a hobby for contesting and experimenting. Its something for people who want to learn about radio and if it is left as that without the rotten politics that consume it, Its a real fun hobby because it covers just about every sort of radio communication with the exception of trunking and encryption. There is a lot to learn and many wonderful knowledgeable Hams to teach people. Emergency communication, national security, etc? It will never happen. That's what GMRS/FRS is for. More people can throw money at the FCC and get a license than can throw money at the FCC AND take a test on theory they dont care about. FRS radios can be found at any corner store and GMRS radios are found all over Ebay, Bridgecom, and many other sites.  GMRS/FRS is the service that preppers and other survivalists are drawn to more. Its got your short range you want and you are able to operate repeaters if you want (licensed of course). 

Old racks and the new ones.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Have a couple things cooking in Johnstown at the site.
First is we acquired 12 matching equipment racks for the site.  For those that have seen the pictures of the hodge podge of equipment racks I currently have this is a MAJOR upgrade.
So for those needing an equipment rack or 6, I have plenty that need new homes.   Of course as equipment is moved from rack to rack it will be down.  So if you are experiencing an outage, it's only temporary. 
I reprogrammed the Johnstown625 machine tonight.  It's now the Johnstown600 machine.  I found out that I was stomping on a guy two towns over and I first and foremost do NOT want to interfere with anyone else.  He has been licensed since the FCC actually granted you repeater pairs you were allowed to use.  625 was one of his pairs and he was established so I vacated. 
Another interesting discovery while doing the retune.  I have an SWR of 5:1 on the transmit antenna currently.  Gonna rig the tower this weekend and hopefully get new line run and a different antenna in place on the tower.  It has seemed to be a bit noisy at times and I really wasn't paying close attention.  That of course is going to change.   I will be putting a power monitor on the antenna system so I know when there is a problem going forward. 
I also figured out I have a 10dB loss in the transmit combiner.  That works out to 50 watts in and 6 watts out to the antenna.  It's actually sort of funny that the thing talks 40 miles in most directions with that sort of power output.  I am giving some consideration to trying to space the antennas horizontally apart far enough at the top of the tower (needs to be 30 feet I think) so the coverage will more or less overlap.  Not sure if I can do that and not shadow the antenna's due to the horns still being on the tower. 
 

You likely don't have the front mic HUB grounded (ie: the radio thinks it is off hook).  Been too long since I was into the MCS2k software, but there should be an "ignore HUB" setting or similar tick box that would work. Or, if your mic jack is open, slap a palm mic in that has a hang up clip attached. 

Yes to both. 

you should be good with the first option.  I run similar on my F150 (6 NMO mounts). Rear is CB and VHF, front are all bands, and farthest front are UHF
 

you should be good with the first option.  I run similar on my F150 (6 NMO mounts). Rear is CB and VHF, front are all bands, and farthest front are UHF