WRKC935

Folks need to get past this idea of 'more channels / frequencies' on GMRS. Out of everything that someone might want to change about GMRS, that's the one that's least likely to happen. The biggest issue is GMRS in is the LMR allocation for frequencies. We have commercial two-way above and below us. There are no more frequencies to be allocated to the service. And adding repeater pairs from the FRS frequencies really ain't gonna fly either because the interference issues that will be created by the bubble pack radios on those frequencies. Not to mention it would make all the current part 95 radios that aren't able to be flashed to add those repeater channels and make them obsolete. Which is what happened when CB was modified to have 40 channels from the original 23. While I don't like the idea of DMR or other digital modulation schemes being used on GMRS due to the issues that will create, it's a better and more reasonable option than getting more frequency allocation. They are NOT going to kick commercial users off their frequencies to give us more channels.

Absolutely. It's not as easy as doing a google search for a call sign. There is a bit of footwork involved and it's not possible in every state. But the biggest hole is the social media sites. People tend to have their personal info (name and location) on sites like Facebook and will then go on vacation and start posting pictures and videos of sandy beaches and sunsets for everyone to see while clearly being from Ohio, Indiana or any state without sandy beaches and drinks in coconuts. Point I am trying to make is that while, just like you stated, a simple Google search of a call sign will indeed get you the address and name of that person. Criminals have a number of ways to get that info. And they aren't going to be sitting in a room with a bunch of scanners listening to GMRS looking for someone to announce they are leaving town. The one that I always had an issue with was law enforcement running SSN and drives licenses over the air. Complete with car make, model and year. It's not hard to figure out that if someone is driving a newer Cadillac that you now have their DR number, address, name, DOB that they are a better target for identity theft than a guy in a 84 Reliant K-car.

Going back to the original post. While it's true that using you call sign does in fact identify you, so do your license plates. And while I don't believe that most conversations are going to open you up to a situation that could be either dangerous or result in being robbed while you aren't home, a bit of operational security is always a good idea. Things like not discussing a vacation trip you are PLANNING to take with others prior to your departure and return. I would never tell anyone over the air that I was going on vacation for any amount of time, unless I am planning on staying home. I don't discuss any departure or arrival times for even going to work. Not that I don't trust the people I talk to on the radio, but I am NOT just talking to them. Anyone with a radio or scanner can hear what's being said, and can act on that information. I do have a tendency to discuss the security camera's at the house, and the fact that there are multiple DVR's and I get alerts on my phone when a camera is tripped due to motion. I don't discuss actual camera locations, overlaps of coverage or weaknesses. Any discussions are typically about adding additional camera's. Which is a deterrent alone. But 'opsec' which is operational security said in a real cool way, is really nothing more than sitting and considering what you can and can't say / advertise about your day to day life. And the dumb stuff like getting the mail and newspaper delivery stopped when out of town falls into that opsec stuff. And it's a good idea to have that conversation with your wife and kids. We can't block anyone and everyone from knowing our vacations and travel plans. The work place makes it really hard to keep all that quiet. The bosses will want to know what's happening, and while you can avoid saying much, saying too little can be detrimental as well. And telling them outright that you aren't going to discuss your travel plans will only put them on edge. Mostly because it's not 'normal' to not brag about taking a cruise or going to Disney or similar far away attraction. But don't concern yourself with the idea that criminals are sitting around a GMRS radio waiting on someone to announce they are going away on vacation to go rob their house.

Maybe YOU should read what you wrote. I never implied that 30Mhz and below would NOT reflect. I did say that about anything over 100 would NOT reflect off the ionosphere however. Which is basically what this post says. And is correct. You said that VHF maritime radio would reflect, you never mentioned HF marine radio. If you ever operated Sporadic-E you know that it opens for a few minutes at the longest and then fades. It's not a consistent method of communications. Yes, this is an exception to the normal rule that frequencies above 100 Mhz pass through the ionosphere. Just like there were 10 meter (29Mhz) downlinks on some ham satellites. Of course they worked better when the sun spot cycle was in a null and the MUF for DX never got above the 15 meter band.

OK, Marine VHF is at 160Mhz. I said that hams use 145 Mhz which talks right through the Ionosphere to satellites. No reflection. Try to be nice, Nope. Ain't your BUD, so here it is straight. Anything ABOVE 100 Mhz for certain and most anything above 30 Mhz will NOT reflect off the Ionosphere. Which is what you said, which is incorrect. SO VHF TV on any of the upper channels and mostly on the lower VHF channels doesn't skip, reflect, DX or whatever you were referencing. Marine VHF also doesn't do that. Hence the reason that HF comms were required on ships over a certain tonnage by maritime regulation. And the reason that we had MORSE CODE requirements in ham radio for the amount of tie we did. Now that GPS and satellite systems are in place and required on ships, the HF radio requirement is gone. And BTW. When TV went digital, it quit being VHF all together. There are no VHF (below 300Mhz) TV channel allocations any more. https://www.antennasdirect.com/hdtv-station-list.html Look at the list and it will show the station channels are NOT where the claim to be and instead have moved to the UHF band and only claim to be on the original analog channel position. Bud

Not sure that's right. Part of analog VHF TV was below 100Mhz, but went as high as 210 Mhz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_channel_frequencies But, satellite communications are done, at least with ham radio, at 145Mhz. Now, there isn't much satellite happening below that, and the reason is the reflection. But low powered handheld radios with modest gain antenna's are used with great success at 145Mhz. So there isn't much 'skip' happening on the upper portions of VHF. TV signals are NOT a good measure of coverage distance, reason being is thousand foot towers and 100KW plus ERP's. You can't sit and have a discussion of GMRS or ANY type of non-broadcast radio and compare it to TV or even AM /FM radio. The antenna heights and power levels are so much greater with commercial radio and TV stations that it's not even apples and oranges. Its apples and steak, or beer, NOTHING is similar when it comes to coverage. And broadcast anything is just that, broadcast. It's all one way. Now if you operate simplex (without a repeater) it's at least one way at a time RF, unlike a repeater that's listening to something and transmitting it somewhere else.

You shouldn't feel that way at all. There are some here that seem to relish in making derogatory or incendiary comments for no apparent reason. They fail to remember that folks that are new to radio may still be learning about radio technology and inquire about things that folks with 30 plus years of experience just take for granted. So again, welcome to radio and try to enjoy it's benefits, but like everything else, remember you might run into some individuals that aren't as friendly about it as others.

I am with the original poster. As a repeater owner, part of it is either listing the repeater as open and shutting off the requests, or checking the requests. The system does email repeater owners at their registered email address when a request comes in. So it's not like they aren't seeing it. If they have the function enabled for requests, then it would seem they want the requests. So they need to answer them in a timely manner. If they want the repeater listed but be private, to help eliminate interference, then it needs to be listed as such. But putting a repeater up, listing it on the site and then not bothering to answer requests is crap. If you don't have the time to do it, turn off the function or remove the listing. It's not rocket science. I understand that it cuts into your time. I had mine listed with requests for a while and after answering 200 something requests, I set the request function to off. It clearly states that requests are NOT needed and the PL for the repeater is accessible for any member of this board. It is open to all licensed GMRS users.

Couple things to point out. dBi and dBd are two different values. dBi is going to be 2.5dB less than dBd. Because the dBd "d" stands for dipole. Which has 2.5dB of gain above a isotropic radiator. Which is the 'i' in dBi. I don't own the Comet that others have talked about. The circles I run in and company I keep gets me DB-408's and DB-420's for my stuff. Those of course are the 2K dollar antenna's you mentioned. But a guy in Columbus put one up on his repeater and it was a night and day difference between the 6dBi antenna he got with the repeater and that one. It probably added 5 to 10 miles of range or better to his repeater, all other things being the same. No change in mount height. Now, be aware that you can have too much gain if you have a lot of height. The realized gain in an antenna is accomplished in moving the radiation pattern. Think about it like a 100 watt lightbulb. If the light is going all directions, at all angles, no specific direction or angle gets any more light then another. To create gain, an antenna take the unused light radiating up and down and points in to the horizon. The more this is done, the higher the gain. When you get the gain high enough, there isn't much radiation down. So with a bunch of height, you overshoot the signal where you want it to go. Mind you it requires a LOT of height. But if you are on a mountain, and get a super high gain antenna, the valley below will NOT see much if any signal. Just be aware of that.

Yep, understood. Went back and read your rules. Obviously I am NOT welcome.

And I am trying to start arguments. Right.

Never said there was a club. Situation was just a repeater that someone was charging access fee's for. Point is that if you are putting the money in your pocket and spending it on yourself, then you are profiting. If there is a 'club' that is established as you are indicating, and what I said applies, then it's embezzlement, because you are taking CLUB money and spending it on yourself. Either way YOU are profiting. Don't forget that a club needs to keep books for their money too. And all that stuff you mentioned has receipts that go into a ledger. And if the yearly income minus the years receipts don't equal the bank account then the money went somewhere. And if you are the only one handling the money, then it's on YOU to explain it. If you can't, then it's still a problem, legally. We're not discussing forensic accounting here. This is as simple as balancing a checkbook. I realize they don't teach that in school anymore. But it's not that difficult of a concept to grasp.

There you go again, trying to talk as if you know,,, when clearly it seems you DON'T. We OWN THE SITE. The tower, property, building, all of it. So ALL costs are the responsibility of the owner / business. Yes, it's now an LLC. That I donate a LOT of time to which pays my way to have access. I wired it, installed the generators, battery plants, provided thousands of feet of cable. Every repeater at the site in use outside the two county owned repeaters. That I support via the business I work for. There are no 'free' tower sites any more. At least not around here. Everything and every place that at one time was accessible because the engineer for the station, or the owners of the site were friendly to ham radio have all sold off or have put their sites under commercial tower management and they all want over a 1000 a month in rent. A civil engineering study done before you can even get a contract written and require one of their 'approved' tower contractors to do the work or installing the antenna and line. And of course since the new TIA-222 standard just went to I from H, most towers don't pass and you are responsible to have the tower reinforced to meet the standard with your additional loading. Cell companies don't care, A tower serves hundreds or possibly thousands of users. They are making lots of money and they see it as a business expense. When it's hobby radio, ham, GMRS or whatever, the numbers keep them off the towers.

Now, remember that this is coming from a guy that has an open repeater that covers 7 counties and REFUSES to take money because it's too much of a PITA to do so. YOU sir have NO idea what running a repeater actually costs. Outside of the 20 bucks a month your electric bill went up with your garage repeater that has a 5 mile range. Tower SITE.... 48K purchase price. Another 30K in electrical, roof, materials. 300 bucks a month in electric bill 200 a month in property taxes. A 300 dollar LIGHT BULB that has to be changed every 2 years. We change it ourselves or that would be a 3300 dollar light bulb. 300 for the bulb, 3000 to climb up and change it. Although at some point we will need to invest in a powered rope ascender that will 'pull' one of us up the tower when we are too old to physically climb the 230 foot ladder to access the light. Think battery drill powered winch. SO, paying 25 bucks a year, or even 10 bucks a month to access a repeater that has coverage in 7 counties is a STEAL as opposed to just the electric bill.

Not really. As mentioned, it's easy to show if you are putting any dues money in a specific account and only using that money for the repeater. But, for the sake of numbers. Lets say you have 50 users that all pay 20 bucks a month. That's $1000 a month. You are just dumping all that money in your personal bank account. You can show a 100 dollar a month electric bill at the site. You can show a 100 dollar a month site rent. And you can show two service calls from a radio shop at 500 dollars a trip for the last 12 months. So the 'dues' income is 12K. You have receipts for $3400 bucks for the last 12 months. If you don't have a minimum of $8600 in your bank account, you are profiting from the repeater. Because YOU spent the money for something outside of the repeater upkeep and maintenance. And again, I am speaking based on the RULEs / REGULATIONS as written, not what's being enforced. But, first thing is a file from the FCC, probably for MORE than what you are taking in per year in dues. Second is the FCC informing the IRS of the 12K per year, and operations of a for profit business. Now if you have all your ducks in a row and are claiming that as income, and depreciating the repeater, line, duplexer. Writing off the electric bill, maintenance costs and all the rest, then it's a business anyway. So no one is gonna do that. So the IRS smacks you. If you aren't doing all the business stuff, then the state will what their share too. And may come at you for operating a business without a license, insurance, or whatever other laws they have on the books. So we are back to, I put up a repeater. Everyone with a license is allowed to use the repeater WITHOUT paying a fee, dues or any of that. I put it up for my private use and ALLOW others to access it. Then when it's questioned, it's my repeater, for my needs and others are ALLOWED to use it. No business intent at all. Because the county is a tenant on our tower, we had to establish a business, move the ownership of the tower to the business, and all that stuff. It was a PITA. But the tower owner gained a tenant by doing all of it. Since he dislikes ham clubs as much as I do, so we don't even claim it's a club house.