WRKC935

Not watching the video.... this seems to be turning into some Hammie ARES EMCOMM thing that would infer that if she had a yellow vest and a Baofeng radio that she would have been fine because "Ham Radio saves Lives" Which is a true statement ..... because laughter is the best medicine.

While there has been a significant increase in GMRS license holders and repeaters in recent years. Not every corner of the US has a GMRS repeater. There is always a possibility that you are having issues with what you are doing with the search, it might be that there are simply no repeaters in your area. If you are willing to give a basic location of where you are, one of use can take a look and see if there are any repeaters that you just aren't seeing or if you don't have any coverage in that area.

Yeah, and I am the guy that has some of those 12K radios. And I can say that wide band FM is wide band FM. Same thing coming from a 38 dollar Baofeng and a 12K buck Motorola. Same thing with wattage, if 4 watts is measured at the output of one radio, and there is 4 watts measured from another radio, that's the same power. The 12K buck radio may continue to work in a high RF noise environment when the lesser radio gives up and looses the ability to lock onto the signal of interest, but that's the difference. The 38 dollar may start mixing those other signals that are getting into the transmit circuits and begin to have issues on the air with a clean signal, but again, 12K gets you a LOT of shielding that's not going to be in the 38 dollar radio. But outside of that, FM is FM. If the 38 dollar works at all, it's going to work the same if it has the same power output and deviation (modulation) as the 12K Motorola. And the ham / GMRS operator that has that 12K Motorola will NEVER be able to give you a reasonable and honest answer on why they 'need' that radio. Because no one will ever admit that it's purely vanity that gets them to drop the silly amount of money required to get such a radio. There is no special function that makes those radios superior to even the cheapest radios in 99% of the operations they are expected to perform, which is talking on the local repeater. I have Boafengs too. I can't take them downtown on rooftops and expect them to work. The RF noise in those locations drive the radios nuts. My high dollar Motorola works in those situations just fine. But if I am out in the country at home, no one can tell if I am talking on the Baofeng or the Motorola. While they don't sound exactly the same because that 12K gets you a bunch of audio processing, dual mikes, noise canceling and other stuff that 38 bucks isn't going to buy, you have to decide if 12K is too steep a price to pay so you can talk on the local repeater while you're on the lawn mower with all the engine noise being canceled out or not. To address the FCC type acceptance thing mentioned by others. If you don't understand the type acceptance procedure, that is done by the manufacture, not the FCC. Well you might read up on that before stating claims about it. Manufactures do their own testing. And may or may not be required to submit equipment for testing to the FCC for additional testing. And even when there is a requirement for sending in radios, it's up to the manufacture to ensure that the radios going out the door for sale are the SAME design and function as the radios that were submitted for testing. Some manufactures do verify that every unit is equally good as it leaves the factory. And some manufactures make 'wonder knives' like the 'as seen on TV' ones that saw bricks in half then slice a tomato. Can a knife be made to do that. But when was the last time you were at a state fair watching the guy saw a copper pipe in half and then cut bread actually sell the knife HE'S using, not the ones on display. Or randomly take one of the ones for sale for 19.99 and do those things with it, and then attempt to sell THAT knife. Because NOTHING about the knife the seller is using is the same as the ones you will go home with other than looks. Now, would China based companies do such a thing? Well they put lead in toys, ship Fentanyl to us, send helium balloons into our country to spy on use, and a full list of other things that would fill a page here but then verify that every last radio coming out of their factories is the same as the one they sent for testing that cost 10 times to make? I am not going to hedge my bets on that. But you are more than welcome to.

First off, don't let SAD HAMS drive you from that service. They can be told to go kick rocks just like anyone else. Having that license doesn't make them special, even if they are convinced it does. Ham radio can be an enjoyable hobby and pastime and a few clowns shouldn't turn you off from that endeavor. I just renewed for the third time four days ago. So 30 years of being a ham. Yes, I have told people to kick rocks that were hams. Told it to a GMRS operator or two as well. The fixed antenna could be a couple things. One not mentioned is does the radio have the full complement of FRS channels in it? FRS is a low power service that is tighly regulated and the equipment has certain stipulations as well. One of which is the interstitial channels are .5 watts and the radio can't have a removable antenna. That is to keep the talk distance to a minimum. So that's worth looking into as well.

Many here have stated what GMRS was actually setup to do. Provide extended family and small group communications beyond what the FRS service could. It was a medium power service that allowed fixed stations (base setups with elevated antennas) and repeaters for the extension. That is what is was originally for. And the rules and regulations pretty much bear that out. But that's not what it has turned into. I will preface this with the fact that 3 days ago I renewed my ham license for the 3rd time. That is a 10 year license, so I have been involved with ham radio since 1994, so 30 years at this point. And ham radio wasn't ever really to be a social gathering place. It was for the furtherment of communications through experimentation and to build a pool of qualified electronics technicians that could provide support for technology in the future. Of course, ham radio isn't that any more either. But, GMRS is now a conduit for social interaction. This was once done with CB radio. A great many people had radios and they communicated throughout their community with other individuals in a social manner. AKA they would get on the radio and BS back and forth. It wasn't for building RF techs, radio nerds, or specifically for emergency communications. But ANY radio service can be used for EMCOMM. It's just going to be limited by the regulations and equipment available for that service. But GMRS is now a gathering place for folks to chat with each other via voice communications. My guess is that COVID may have sparked renewed interest in having a reliable conduit for communications that didn't require face to face interactions and was always readily available. I wasn't personally involved with GMRS during COVID. But I have since done testing and continue to test coverage and gather radios for deployment for family so that the path of communications can't be easily severed. My repeater site will soon have alternative 'off grid' power in addition to the current grid, battery and generator power that is in place and functioning. Single 'car' batteries with a single 100 watt solar cell and charge controller will maintain power and limited light for family members during a disaster situation so we can check in with each other and maintain some sense of normal during an abnormal situation. But again, that's not what it was really for. It just lends itself to that function. But in the end, it still is a conduit for social interaction. And that is a good thing.

When the radio's you have in your vehicle cost more than the car did. When you put a second mortgage on your house (rental property) to buy a 240 foot tower site. When you are spending 200 plus dollars a month on running your own tower site. (taxes and electric) When people drive by your house and know that you own the tower site down the street because of the antenna and microwave dish array you have on your roof. When you still enjoy operating radios socially (HAM and GMRS) after 15 years of working on radios professionally. When you have decided that you would rather do radio work after having a job offer that was 40K more than what you are currently making.

Yeah, if your not getting it by -101 then somethings not right with the receiver, at least if it's of good quality.

Accurate coverage mapping requires a number of different pieces of information to run the calculations against to generate a map. Some of those are power from the transmitter, duplexer loss, antenna cable loss, antenna gain, antenna height at the center of the radiation pattern, antenna pattern and down tilt. What is calculated is path loss based on the transmit and receive frequencies, losses due to vegetation, buildings and ground cover. This is selected in the coverage mapping software during the configuration and data input. You will also need to supply the subscriber antenna gain, transmit power and antenna height so that the talk in can be calculated. A base radio will work farther than an mobile with the same power output because of antenna height, a mobile will work better than a portable due to antenna gain and power output from the portable being typically 10dB less than the mobile. Again, there is software out there to run the numbers. But without the REAL numbers, it's garbage in and garbage out.

Yes, that's true. No one should expect white glove rescue service from the government entities. Now this isn't a prepper site. I am not going to go into physical security, food storage, bug out planning or any of that. But we do discuss communications and radio here. So that piece of a bigger plan is appropriate for this site. And the hammie thought process isn't one that needs adopted here either. Here's the issue with calling for help. You have to give your location to direct the assistance to you. Now if you are unprepared, and in a life or death situation, you really don't have a choice. Outside of that, discussion of locations, travel plans, specific meeting locations and the like are NEVER to be discussed over the air. If you wouldn't tell your neighbor, or fellow radio operator friend that you have 10 grand in your safe (if you did) because of trust issues, then you don't give out that sort of information over the air for ANYONE else to hear. All this is referred to as operational security. The OPSEC term you see from time to time. And if you are going to communicate with others in a situation where the government isn't there to help,you need to have previously established a communications plan for all involved parties and stick to that plan. First part of the plan is scheduling. And contrary to what might seem reasonable of same time every day, that's NOT the way to go about it. Your communications need to switch times in a seemingly random way. This can be based on the day of the week, but shouldn't repeat for at least a month. Meaning if Monday comms are at 10 and 6 then the next day needs to be 8 and 7. The following day should be 10:30 and 5, and you can continue to repeat a pattern that while you and the other parties know what it is, someone monitoring will not easily see what's happening. And then can't track your signal by waiting for the specific time you are going to be talking. Changing frequencies, is also a possibility depending on what you have at hand for communications. And remember, this is a SHTF situation, so the rules are sort of malleable. But keep in mind a couple things. First is only using as much power as needed to communicate with the other party. Less signal is less distance, meaning that fewer people with ill intent can hear you. Names, landmarks and such need to not be directly named. Other 'coded' references to those things need to be established prior to a situation that requires OPSEC and then used for the duration of the situation. There is a LOT to all of this and I am not going to go that deep into it but this should be enough to start getting a plan for communications established and built on from there.

My plans are different than many, but it's what's available to me directly so it's the path I will take. If it gets to the point that the commie's are invading, or whatever, I will be operating P25 with AES encryption. I have plenty of equipment for doing that on VHF and UHF and 900Mhz and the repeaters are programmed for mixed mode, so if they hear P25 modulation with the correct NAC, they switch modes, and power levels going from 50 or less watts to 110 watts. So my PERSONAL communications will be covered. Past that, if the repeaters get really busy, I will begin bringing other pairs on line and doing announcements to more people off to the additional repeaters. Johnstown600 is still in the rack with the breaker pulled. That one goes back up first. It was my linked repeater that I took down since I didn't have the loading I felt mandated the pairs being tied up for. But at that point, I will also be taking donations of diesel fuel to keep the generator running. I have considered requesting the donation of fuel right now to fill the storage tank (275 gallon) but we keep the belly tank (100 gallon) at 1/2 to 3/4 at all times. The one thing about a diesel genset is the ease of getting fuel to it. The fact it's older means it can run on a number of different fuels from heating oil to some jet fuels. And since the current diesel is basically kerosene, it's typically available too. I have larger propane / natural gas units, but getting fuel to them would be a bit more difficult.

As a repeater owner I am noticing a trend that is concerning. I get a good number of repeater access requests that are marked for 'family emergency communications' in the request. I get A LOT of these. Now many of these folks never key the repeater past once or twice to see if they can hit it and verify they are in the coverage area. Then they are never heard from again. But if I have 100 individual license holders that are all considering my repeater as their primary means of communications in a disaster, there's going to be a serious problem. If all those are individual licenses, and not going to communicate with each other, then that's 200 users on one repeater all expecting to able to communicate within their licensed group individually. Meaning the possibility of 100 different conversations that might want to happen at more or less the same time. That's not going to work. The repeater is gonna be on the air for at least a week or two after a failure of the power grid. The generator will run for several days and then the batteries will take over for several more. Not saying that the tower can't fall, but it's not the standard guyed tower that many repeaters are on. It's 50 feet wide at the base with 4 legs and is very sturdy. To the point that the ones that were extended in height had broadcast quality tower sections that were 4 foot faced mounted on TOP of the existing towers to extend them and part of those installs are 60 foot free standing (not guyed) towers mounted to the top of the tower type I have the repeater on. So yes, a direct hit from a tornado may bring the tower down. But a better possibility is the antenna's being ripped from the structure. Outside that, it will be on the air. But it's still ONE repeater, with the possibility of a HUGE number of people wanting to use it at the same time all trying to get in there and use it at once. Now I realize that GMRS requires ZERO understanding of radio to get a license. The service is marketed and meant to fill the need for people that just want radios for whatever communications they require without any additional knowledge or understanding of the underlying technology. Appliance Operators would be a correct description. And that's fine. It's here for that very reason and is the expectation. But if there are a large number of people expecting to all use the same repeater, that never talk on it, you're going to be in for a rude awakening when the SHTF whatever occurs and you yank the radios out of the closet and fire them up and find the repeater you planned to use busy with other traffic.

Well, I could have handled that better. But I see what you were saying. The reason I brought it up was exactly what you said. Holding 3600 or ever 1800 RPM at a steady state with muscle power is not going to be possible. The requirements mechanically to pull it off (mechanical governors and the like) would add both complexity and additional mechanical load to the 'crank' input to maintain that RPM. The poles thing wasn't as important as the need for steady state rotational input for frequency / voltage stability. And as mentioned by others, using a DC generator or alternator with rectifier for DC output is a better option and if you feed that into a storage system (batteries or super capacitors) the energy can be generated and stored for later use in addition to being immediately available for use. I read the big windmills that generate AC power do use a massive CVT (constant velocity transmission) between the blade hub and the generator head. My question is how all that gets synced. You working in power generation probably understood that the generator needed phase synced with the grid before you could connect and start feeding power. Not sure how those pull that off.

Right... calling bullshit on that for SURE. I have a VHF repeater that belongs to NARA (Newark Ama.... ) and that thing has not less than 3 separate IDer's connected to it. They claim to run multiples because if one fails the others will keep them 'legal'. The one is set for every 9 minutes. I have a logging recorder that shows this, 24/7/365 it ID's every 9 minutes. Then there are, as you mentioned, TWO additional 'busy only' IDer's that run. One only announces when it's made busy, by time. But will react to any PTT of the system. The other announces when busy in 15 minute increments based on the actual time so, top and bottom of the hour and 1/4 past and 3/4 past. So, if you key it, it will immediately ID. Then you key it again the second IDer will ID. If it's in the quarter hour, the THIRD IDer goes active. I get on there from time to time... throw my call, wait on the first ID. Reply, WHAT YOU SAY??? Second IDer. COULD YOU REPEAT THAT??? Third IDer. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT YOU SAID,,, or YOU JUST GONNA KEEP REPEATING YOURSELF, WHERE'S THE AI CHAT BOT TO KEEP ME COMPANY? And the NARA people then get on the air all pissed off at me. Of course I explain NO ONE wants to use the dumb thing because you can't have a conversation on it because the IDer's don't polite ID or fall back to quiet CW. They just changed the call sign on the repeater, and it's still like that..... with a new call. Hammies, at least the local ones what their repeater controller to tell time, weather, frequency, PL/DPL, current price of ass wipe. AND the repeater call sign. And it's annoying as hell.

Yeah, especially a PAID access repeater.

Yes, you are 100% predictable Randy. I will leave you to figure out how.