RayP

Sorry, but I must disagree. Given the original intent of Class A Citizens Band/GMRS radio, of facilitating reliable local area communications between family and friends, linking is neither normal nor expected in this radio service. In areas with cellular dead spots, or where people may wish to have backup comms for the possibility of a cellular outage, a well-engineered and fortuitously located stand-alone repeater can be a real blessing to the community, county, or larger area that it provides coverage to. A cellular outage lasting a few hours could create a minor panic if a family member were not heard from in some time when they normally call or "check in" by a given time each day. Likewise, emergencies such as severe weather, missing persons where a community fields volunteers to search an area, etc, could be well served by such a repeater. Linking to other repeaters outside of your area, especially across the state or across the nation provides no practical or necessary comms for your local area. Instead, more often than not, they jam up one or more of the only eight repeater/50W simplex channels with inane and pointless chatter from other areas which have little or no bearing or interest to your local area. Frequently, chatter on only one or maybe two of the linked repeaters, ties up multiple repeaters and frequency pairs unnecessarily, hampering efforts to use the remaining repeaters in their local area, or just someone wanting to use 50W simplex to communicate locally, only to be washed out by the linked repeaters. The only real purpose I have seen in linking to distant repeaters and networks is to give the repeater owner doing the linking a level of Freudian "compensation", as they imagine the masses gathering to admire how far theirs can reach. In reality, most who are not newbies are not impressed. The technology used in linking is the same technology that allows most cell phones to make long distance calls. If you really get your jollies talking long distance over a commonplace network, call a friend or relative in another state. If you have no friends or relatives in another state, call a motel desk clerk elsewhere and ask them questions about their rates. You have just achieved the same exact thing as you do talking to or listening to a bunch of ratchetjaws many states away on a GMRS linked system, but without jamming scarce spectrum. If you really want to do VOIP DX, talk with the nice man or woman in India who calls to help you get a better rate on your credit card, next time they call. YEEEE HAW! IF that still leaves you dissatisfied, do the minimal studying required to get your Technician Class ham license and put up or utilize one of the many VHF/UHF networks there. While the linking there is annoying too, they at least have a lot more pairs (than our GMRS eight) to do these networks on.

Thank You! I found the other thread!

Can you tell us more? Sounds great!

Back in the 1960's, a lot of old Motorola, GE, and similar land mobile radios had a squelch tail, which was about a half-second of open squelch (white noise) you heard when a received station quit transmitting, before the squelch closed and silenced the receiver. As a kid, I always enjoyed the traffic and squelch tails when the city cop with a (then) new Motorola HT-200 came in the drug store with his radio blaring. Even now, in my old age, I enjoy the sound of the squelch tails on ham, GMRS, commercial, etc, FM radio systems. As then, it let you know that the transmission of the receive station ended. Somewhere along the line, land mobile radio companies decided that the squelch tail was annoying and should be eliminated. Various technical solutions were employed to make the squelch tail go away, to include Motorola's "reverse burst" which inverted or otherwise altered the PL tone for a split second when a transmitter unkeyed. Over time, mainly on ham, then later FRS and GMRS, plus land mobile, radio companies added the "courtesy tone" or as CB'ers called it the roger beep, to let people know a transmission had ended. We went full circle, from eliminating a naturally occurring cue that a received station had ceased transmitting, to creating a beep or other tone to do the same, generated internally by the radio. Some ham, land mobile, and GMRS, radios have settings that enhance the probability that the radio will create a squelch tail while transmitting (or receiving). I usually have those settings adjusted to do so on my radios. I always wondered how popular a "courtesy tone" setting (transmit and/or receive) would be that sounded like a squelch tail, if manufacturers included that as an option, along with the more well known beeps.

You can see some really weird stuff on the pages of some repeaters. I can think of one, this week it is "Permission Only". Next week it is "Open to any licensed user". Week after that it is "Permission Only" again; and on, and on, and on.

Mine is as an alternative to cellular in the event that it goes down. I am part of an informal repeater group that meets monthly at varying restaurants for mutual help with radio stuff and for fellowship. I have ham too but was becoming disenchanted with some of the personalities and attitudes found there.

Who sits around and thinks up this kind of stupidity? No! Not just no, but hell no! This is another hairbrained attempt to make GMRS into "ham radio lite". I am an Extra class ham, and I am 100% against this. GMRS (Class A CB) was originally another means of personal (and at one time, business) communication. It should remain that way. It should remain 100% analog. GMRS allows for reliable communication with a short wavelength (think being able to use an ht in a car without an outside or excessively long antenna). It is great for families, friends, and even properly licensed hams, to keep in touch, especially with family and friends who just do not want to be bothered with testing, radio theory, etc. If someone wants to enjoy the hobby aspects of ham, play with digital, etc; then let them get off of their dead behind and study and take the tests or shut up! Those who are already hams and who want to turn GMRS into ham lite or other extension of ham radio, please use the privileges you have on ham or upgrade if that is not enough. People are continuously trying to wreck a great thing that GMRS is with these bright ideas.

That sounds like a great idea!

Excellent point, Uncle Yoda! I am aware of two linked systems in our general area on ham. One, most of the time, is not linked, but access codes to link and de-link are published. Due to longstanding tradition, they are usually linked on weekends and some holidays with no option to de-link a repeater from the system. This was a cool novelty in the beginning, but anymore is a PITA because of a bunch of ratchet jaws along the coast (again, on one or two repeaters) who tie up the whole system for long periods of time so that no one on the other repeaters (2m side of system) can use it. How much better it would be if you could de-link the repeater in your area to call a friend across town when the ratchet jaws are in session. The other linked system, is linked 24-7-365 with no end-user option to de-link. I haven't been on it in months, but conflicts were common with heavy use, again on one or two repeaters, tying up the whole network. Ideally, a such a system would be de-linked with published link codes to link to individual repeaters. Even normally linked, with published de-link codes would be an improvement over 24-7-365 links.

It seems as though every newbie who wants to dive into putting up a repeater(s), for some reason feels the need to link it/them to other repeaters or some big network. Before doing so, please consider that there are ONLY eight GMRS frequencies which may be used for repeater or 50W simplex. More often than not, when you have multiple repeaters linked, you will have situations where a rag chew in progress is only taking place on one or two of the repeaters, but that conversation will necessarily tie up ALL repeaters linked to the used one(s) at the time, as well as the simplex aspect of each repeater frequency for anyone in range of it. The guy trying to use one of those uninvolved repeaters, another repeater in range of any of them, or 50W simplex in range of any of them, will have a difficult or impossible time connecting with his family or friends. Because someone thinks it kewel and trendy to link a bunch of repeaters together, people trying to use any of those eight GMRS channels in range of repeaters so connected, for the original purpose of GMRS, will likely be out of luck. Please take this into consideration before adding to the congestion of those eight channels with unnecessary linking. If you wish to provide a service to the GMRS community in a given area, an open stand-alone repeater capable of covering as much area as feasible will be a far greater service to a given area. I understand that in San Francisco, it is perfectly legal to relieve oneself on the sidewalks. This is probably not considerate of others who use the sidewalk for its original intended purpose. Just because we "can" do something doesn't mean we necessarily "should" do it.

I have noted issues with several Wouxun ht's regarding CTCSS and frankly, am getting a bit discouraged with what was my favorite brand. I had several 905G's that would not encode or decode the same tones between the same model radios on simplex. One would not decode a repeater operating with a 210.7 PL. As such, the KG905G is now on my do-not-buy list. More recently, a wide coverage repeater owned and maintained by a very competent land mobile technician was chopping in and out of the decoders on a KG935G+, KGS88G, and KG1000G+, each at a different location and each owned by a different person. If CTCSS decode was disabled, the problem stopped. If received on another brand radio, the chopping was not present with its CTCSS decoder turned on. This issue was brought to the attention of the repeater owner a few hours earlier and persisted after he thoroughly checked his output frequency and PL tone frequency. The problem tone? 141.3. Unless and until BTWR forces Wouxun to do better, I will not be purchasing anymore Wouxun GMRS radios in the foreseeable future. I have literally bought several thousand dollars worth of Wouxun radios and accessories for myself and for friends, but find this crummy QC to be unacceptable.

There are lots of reasons for encoding the repeater output tone on the output/simplex channel that in no way involve purposely interfering with anyone. I am a member of an informal repeater group that meets at different restaurants in about a 40 mile radius of the repeater one day, each month. Oftentimes, these restaurants will be well outside of the repeater's coverage area. As such, we usually agree to monitor the output of our repeater to help newcomers or old members locate where we are for that day. Several of us, to include myself, make sure we encode the repeater's tone on its output/simplex channel so that someone with the tone set in the decoder can hear us. Likewise, when two operators are mobile, portable, or even on base; many miles from the repeater, if they are close enough to each other, they can communicate more easily on simplex than through the repeater. Encoding the repeater output tone on the simplex channel the repeater uses facilitates simplex and allows monitoring the repeater when cresting hills or otherwise in receiving range of the repeater. If someone is not a member of a paid repeater group, encoding that repeater's tone while transmitting simplex can allow for useful communication to a paid user if close to the paid user. For instance, the paid user is lost or needs mechanical assistance. The paid user might need a connector, cable, or something else and if the non-member has something helpful to share and is close enough, they can assist the paid user without violating the sanctity of the members-only repeater. Not everything is sinister.

Thanks for the link. After numerous attempts, I finally got it to take my express filing.

Another person trying to turn GMRS into "ham radio lite". If you want to do ham stuff go get your ham license and do ham stuff. We already have the eight 50W Simplex/Repeater channels clogged up with "networks" and linking by wannabe hams in too many locales. No need to jam up GMRS with more digital noise. Or if you really want to play digital mode on simplex, do it on one of the five MURS channels.

For many of us, it is not "just one time". It is a pattern of many, many, times, in many different ways. I understand that mistakes will happen in any endeavor where you have a high volume of traffic, such as dispatching, delivery, etc. When these mistakes become the rule rather than the exception, "mission control we have a problem".

I feel your pain! All three (FedEx, USPS, and UPS) can be pretty terrible in my area. FedEx, the worst, is bad about promising delivery in a two or so hour window, early in the day. As the day wears on, the window gets moved later and later in the day. One day, I had canceled all appointments to wait at home for an "adult signature required" (firearm) item to return from the factory, where it had been for repairs. I left a note on my door to allow me time to get there and to knock and ring repeatedly. About 1:30PM, I checked the tracking info and it said "recipient not home", "ticket left on door". My doorbell never rang and there was no knock. Also, no ticket was on my door. I made multiple calls to FedEx and was generally told "tough" and they would bring it tomorrow. It seems to be a game with their drivers to avoid delivering packages in any way they can today. I guess it never occurs to them that they will eventually have to deliver it. Last year this time, FedEx mis-delivered 1,000 rds of .22LR (Mini-Mags) to someone else's house. The picture (proof of delivery) they took was not my porch. I walked my whole neighborhood and never saw a porch that looked like the one in the pic. Thankfully, the place I bought them from made it right.

Man, those DIP switches go back a way! My wife's grandmother gave the wife her old IC2AT. It was probably one of the first ht's that did not require crystals for frequency changes. It had thumbwheel frequency selection on top and no PL encode or decode. It did have a DTMF keypad on the front. There were only a couple of repeaters you could use it on locally, but it was a cool piece of yesteryear technology.

I do agree, and congratulations on testing AND passing your exam! I recall in the late 90's, in my area, packet weenies had much of 2m simplex polluted with their noise makers. No joke! Depending on the day or week, there were times you struggled to find a simplex 2m channel to yak with friends on. It seemed as though every simpex channel was occupied by that annoying "SCREEEEECH" every few seconds. My friends and I had to use PL to keep from hearing that. I wound up buying a PL decoder board for my radio and had one sent to a friend whose budget didn't allow him to purchase one. At that time, many 2m transceivers could encode a PL but you had to buy the optional board for decode (radio silence). Some jerk even had one set up on 146.52, the nationwide simplex call channel. Thankfully, that eventually died down, or they all figured out they could run their noise makers on the same channel and not interfere with one another.

Why and for what possible good reason? Once again, it sounds like someone wanting to turn GMRS, with its very limited bandwidth, into "ham radio lite". Rather than additionally trashing our already scarce bandwidth, why not get a book, study it for a week or few, and get your Technician license? Then play with gizmo gadgetry where there is adequate bandwidth and existing infrastructure for it until you heart is content

"X as in xylophone"

I never ceased to be amazed at the control freakism some repeater owners display. Thankfully, most areas have at least one like the guy you talked with who was the owner and from the sound of it, a really cool guy. I chuckle at the numerous repeaters listed on here with a 5 or so mile range and listed as "permission required". Seriously? Do you really expect such a glut of operators within that tiny footprint that you need to control access to it? I know, they are totally within their rights to require permission but it is interesting to do amateur psych evaluations on some of these guys based on their control levels on their repeaters. Then you have some who go into great detail as to what can or cannot be said, how to say it, and even want to know what type radios you are using before they deem you worthy to operate on their system. I can see a simple "ID and follow the FCC rules" or "keep it family friendly, no profanity", but some of these "thou shalt and thou shalt nots" are comical. Anyway, I am glad you and your son connected with a really great repeater owner.

Well, your reading comprehension seems to be as poor as your mathmatical skills. "I am in a general area with two linked repeaters tied in to more. Conversations entirely on the most distant one regularly tie up the two closer to me. Another guy has put up a big repeater tied in to a big national network along with a couple of nodes and another guy still, felt it necessary to link his short range repeater into that network." Maybe I am wrong, but I count six frequencies being polluted in one area with garbage from elsewhere. A couple of new repeater (or "node") ops pop up in the area wanting to delight us with their ability to hook their device to the internet and all eight channels are spoken for during much of the day. IF as you say, your devices are the only ones in your area, then maybe not so much harm. Again, in GMRS we have ONLY eight 50W Simplex/Repeater Pairs which are practically the same thing. If the idea that so many new repeater operators have that it would be such a great idea to link to this repeater or that network holds, then you can soon have a problem. If you are a ham, why not spread your joy of linking on ham freqs, where repeater and simplex allocations number in literal dozens, rather than fewer than a dozen? In my area, the problem is knocking loudly at our door in the here-and-now. You seem only concerned with rules being followed, not so much courtesy or consideration for other users of limited frequency space. I understand that in San Francisco, the law allows people to relieve themselves on sidewalks. I guess you would be fine with that. Just because one "can" do something, doesn't always mean that they "should". But don't let courtesy or consideration stop you from having fun and showing others how smart you think yourself to be.

Back in the early 90's, I kept a Radio Shack Pro-2006 scanner in my locker at work for those days when I was stuck doing dispatch for my small department. One night, stuck on dispatch, I was scanning the 800 MHz phone bands and it stops on a conversation between two females who were obviously of the lesbian persuasion. One was at home and the other was out doing a paper route in the early morning hours. The one doing her paper route was talking the other through, ahhh, some things. I kept thinking that the one at home sounded familiar. I continued listening and could not escape the feeling that I knew the voice of the one at home. After a while, there was a loud train whistle on the end of the one at home. She told the one on her paper route that she would need to hold on a minute until the train passed as she couldn't hear her with the train right behind her house. Then it hit me. I had lunch with the one at home the day before, about 16 hrs earlier. It was my girlfriend's adult daughter. My girlfriend was busy that day and it was her daughter's birthday. My girlfriend was unable to take her to lunch because of her job and the girl's dad was being a jerk and not communicating with her. My girlfriend asked me to take her to lunch so that someone did something nice for her, and I did. I didn't make the connection until I heard the train as she had a railroad track in her back yard. Needless to say, I never told my girlfriend or her daughter what I heard.

I am in a general area with two linked repeaters tied in to more. Conversations entirely on the most distant one regularly tie up the two closer to me. Another guy has put up a big repeater tied in to a big national network along with a couple of nodes and another guy still, felt it necessary to link his short range repeater into that network. AFAIK, GMRS was not created so that people get to "enjoy" useless chatter from across the state or across the nation. It was for families, friends, and others, to have reasonably reliable two-way radio comms in their local area. I define "local" as how far a base, mobile, ht, or repeater, can reach to other devices in the area it is set up in, be it 5 miles or 100 miles, depending on terrain and gear used. If dead air is so worrisome, there are options available without unnecessarily clogging the 8 existing repeater/50W Simplex channels with pointless noise. Ideas include: 1) get your ham Tech license. It really isn't that hard. A little reading and study. No more Morse Code test. Hams have waay more repeater frequencies at VHF and UHF and can therefore better handle the linking. 2) If too lazy or whatever for #1, CB allows for talking and hearing skip from all over. Unlike internet linking, which is really no different than VOIP phone calls, your radio, antenna, and location, come together to allow you to talk to a distant state (or country) using the airwaves, not a glorified phone network. 3) If your base, ht, or mobile, allows; program in some ham repeaters or other frequencies and listen to them. 4) Download a scanner app and listen to public safety and ham stuff from across the country. 5) call someone on your phone, in the next county or the other side of the country. Be it a friend, relative, or a random desk clerk at a big chain motel; you can experience the same "thrill" of talking to distant places using the same (VOIP) technology that makes those trendy and kewel repeater linkups possible. And you don't even have to remember to key or unkey a mic!

The unlawful DMR stuff is bad enough. That, however, is not a good excuse to add to the pile and make it worse.