SteveShannon

This is absolutely excellent information, Marc. Thank you. @Lscotthit the nail on the head. Documenting technical information clearly is a gift. You did a great job. I really appreciated the historical aspect as well.

Maybe this will help. Here's the logical structure: Rule: The following requirements must be obeyed (Each station must identify itself...) Requirement 1 Requirement 2 Except under these conditions: Condition 1, and Condition 2. Because it's a conjunction, a logical AND, both conditions must be true in order to use the exception. That's the only way the regulation can be interpreted. There are other examples of regulations that have a logical OR in that same position. If it would help I'd be happy to post one. I was wrong that the ID doesn't have to be made at the beginning of a transmission. Only at the end and every 15 minutes. But I don't think anyone should flame you. Certainly not for being incorrect. God knows I'm incorrect frequently and I hope that people won't flame me for that.

I wanted to support @rdunajewski, the owner, so for me I guess it was, at least once.

§ 95.1751 GMRS station identification. Each GMRS station must be identified by transmission of its FCC-assigned call sign at the end of transmissions and at periodic intervals during transmissions except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section. A unit number may be included after the call sign in the identification. (a) The GMRS station call sign must be transmitted: (1) Following a single transmission or a series of transmissions; and, (2) After 15 minutes and at least once every 15 minutes thereafter during a series of transmissions lasting more than 15 minutes. (b) The call sign must be transmitted using voice in the English language or international Morse code telegraphy using an audible tone. (c) Any GMRS repeater station is not required to transmit station identification if: (1) It retransmits only communications from GMRS stations operating under authority of the individual license under which it operates; and, (2) The GMRS stations whose communications are retransmitted are properly identified in accordance with this section. Except it’s not confusing. It’s clearly written. You seem to forget about the word “and” (I emphasized it above) at the end of (C)(1). That means both (C)(1) and (C)(2) must be true for the exception (C) to be permitted. In general, those two conditions can only be simultaneously true for for family repeaters (and probably some grandafathered stations, but they’re completely different from new licenses.) And I have no clue why you would interpret “Each GMRS station” to exclude repeaters. Each means every.

The MFJ-874 claims 5% average accuracy on 20 and 200 watt scales: https://mfjenterprises.com/products/mfj-874?pr_prod_strat=use_description&pr_rec_id=43ee72544&pr_rec_pid=4393832153187&pr_ref_pid=4393832349795&pr_seq=uniform#product-manuals It looks interesting to me. The wavenode looks interesting as well.

Exactly! That’s the only reason. I know the granularity of these five examples borders on ridiculousness, but this was the simplest way to list all the permutations.

There’s no fee, but if you decide you want to support the site there’s a Premium level membership for $50/year that has some benefits. Repeaters can be linked in to a nationwide network, but the hardware is in very short supply right now. On this site, once you have a login, the repeater listings include a function that helps you request access. The repeater listings have a separate login than the forums, which is sometimes confusing to people.

You seem to be leaving out the requirement about who is using the repeater. If I operate a GMRS repeater, that GMRS repeater must be identified using my call sign WROM258. Nothing says that ID must be automatically performed, but it must be performed at the end of a transmission, and every 15 minutes during a conversation. The only exception is if the only people who use the repeater are those who are allowed to use my call sign WROM258 and they are following the rules for using the WROM258 call sign (end and every 15 minutes during). But, in this example, if the repeater is used by any person with different call sign than WROM258, even if they ID their own station properly, the repeater must be IDed as WROM258. So, if the twelve grandkids are all properly IDing using WROM258 it’s fine, but if my neighbor WXYZ123 gets on, then the repeater ID must be made, no matter how correctly he IDs his own station. That’s most easily done with an automated ID, but could be manually. Edited to add some brief examples: 1. Repeater WROM258, Only my family uses. They all correctly ID themselves as WROM258. The repeater doesn’t need a separate ID. 2. Repeater WROM258, Only my family uses. One of them fails to correctly ID themselves as WROM258. The repeater must have a separate ID. 3. Repeater WROM258, Although it’s primarily used by my family, sometimes someone else uses it. They all correctly ID themselves.. The repeater must have a separate ID. 4. Repeater WROM258, Open to the public. They all correctly ID themselves. The repeater must have a separate ID. 5. Repeater WROM258, Open to the public. Some fail to correctly ID themselves. The repeater must have a separate ID.

It appears that at least some of the meters MFJ sells are sourced elsewhere and rebranded. The digital meter I was originally interested in appears to be the same as a Nissei or Fumei meter, but $30 more. When the most prolific ham YouTube host (quantity before quality) opened it up, the board said Nissei. But another of their meters claimed it was very accurate and made in Taiwan, so it’s hard to know what they’re selling.

Once I became a Premium member that limit seemed to go away.

I’m doing the same thing as Marc. I’m interested in something less expensive than the Bird, but better than the Farsomatic. ? Or if the Farsometer can be properly calibrated and relied upon I’d be interested. I have been looking at a couple of MFJ digital meters, but I don’t know if they’re much better than the Farsometer.

It might not hurt to ask a dealer if there’s a document like a TSB that specifies guidance for roof antenna mount location.

@axorlov, @marcspaz, and @Lscott Thank you guys! That was a truly interesting exchange on the signal strength meter and modulation types. It made me want to learn more. I knew that each S unit is 6 dB change, but I didn’t realize it was based on an absolute reference uV value, although in hindsight I should have.

Is there any way you can get that antenna outside of your attic and up in the air above your roof, if even just temporarily for testing? Are the houses around yours just as high as yours? What brand and model of antenna is it and what is its advertised gain?

My guess is that all professional repeaters have that ability, but I replied to this separately so someone with actual practical knowledge and experience can answer.

If CTCSS tones are used when transmitting, they can be scanned. But, there’s nothing that says you have to use the same tone as the “input tone” on the receiver side. But, someone within range of a legitimate user can still scan for the input tone and use that to gain access. I don’t know about scanning for DCS tones, but I assume it’s the same. In GMRS, there’s no foolproof way that I can think of to prevent unauthorized access and no radio is jam proof. You can change tones frequently, but that will inconvenience your legitimate users. There are a few forum posts by people who ended up taking their repeaters down because it just became too annoying.

I resemble that remark.

You’ll do great!

There’s no response to the station ID. It just is. There might be an app that needs no wiring, that simply listens. I don’t know. Study code? ?

Welcome!

Yes, exactly right!

That difference in power will make almost zero difference to range. I know that’s counterintuitive, but it’s true. Yes, I mean a cable and NMO mount that are permanently constructed and sealed to each other by a well respected manufacturer. Look at a place like DXEngineering or Ham Radio Output to see what companies like Larsen or Comet or even Midland offer.

I’m envious of the VX6! Please forgive me if I’m assuming took little knowledge or experience on your part. When listening for a repeater with the KG-935, you’ll hear it on two channels. One is a simplex channel and the other is a repeater channel. Both receive on the exact same frequency, but the repeater channel has a +5MHz offset for transmitting. So if you’re hearing a repeater on the simplex channel and try to reply, you’ll be transmitting on the wrong frequency for the repeater to hear. You might hear something on 462.550 MHz, but you’ll have to reply on 467.550 MHz in order for the repeater to receive your transmission. The repeater channels already have that offset programmed in. The other part is the use of tones. Almost all repeaters will have an “input tone” which allows them to reject any transmissions that are not accompanied by the same tone. The repeater then retransmits the transmissions that it hasn’t rejected, also using a tone, this time referred to as the “output tone.” Those tones can be actual tones, specified in Hz, almost always under 300 Hz, or digital codes. When they are actual tones they are usually referred to as CTCSS, but various companies refer to them differently. For example, Motorola refers to them as PL tones. The digital codes are usually referred to as DCS, but again there may be different terms applied. When they’re digital codes they sometimes have either an ‘N’ or an ‘I’ suffix, denoting Normal or Inverted. Typically, you must transmit using the correct input tone or the repeater will filter out your transmissions. However, when you receive, as long as you leave the receive tone unset, you will receive everything transmitted on that frequency. That’s good when you are just getting started because you can hear what’s going on. Again, I apologize if I’m assuming too little knowledge on your part.

I wouldn’t do an SO-239 to NMO fitting if it’s going to be exposed to the weather, unless you do an excellent job of weatherproofing. I would do an N fitting on the outside. They are a sealed fitting. And then I would order the right length of LMR 400 with a factory end on each end. Actually, I would just use a factory cable with an NMO fitting all sealed up on the end of it. I know it’s going to have more loss per 100’ than LMR400, but for a 13 or 15 foot cable it’s inconsequential.

Your heart is definitely in the right place! Alex (Axorlov) explained it well.