Net Control = Control Station?

[UncleYoda]

The way I learned it in ham, no.  And I know those advocating anyone who talks on a repeater is a control station in GMRS would consider it obvious.  But from those who don't think just talking makes you a control station, what do you think?  And for context, assume the net controller is not the repeater owner, is not located physically at the repeater, and has not been given codes to control the repeater remotely.  And that is probably the most common situation for the nets around me.

It's been a busy day for me and I've had it for tonight.  "I'll be back" as Arnold said, to see what y'all think tomorrow.

[WRXB215]

No, net control is not a control station.

[LeoG]

In order to be a control station it must be a fixed transmitter at 15 watts or less.  Usually fixed meaning it only communicates with another fixed station.

As soon as the net controller responds to others on the repeater he's not following fixed station etiquette and not a controller.

[BoxCar]

11 hours ago, UncleYoda said:

The way I learned it in ham, no.  And I know those advocating anyone who talks on a repeater is a control station in GMRS would consider it obvious.  But from those who don't think just talking makes you a control station, what do you think?  And for context, assume the net cont. roller is not the repeater owner, is not located physically at the repeater, and has not been given codes to control the repeater remotely.  And that is probably the most common situation for the nets around me.

It's been a busy day for me and I've had it for tonight.  "I'll be back" as Arnold said, to see what y'all think tomorrow.

Look at this:

The FCC defines "Control Station" in the context of radio services, particularly under Part 95 of Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations. While the term isn't always explicitly defined in every radio service, here's how it's generally understood:

FCC Definition (Part 95 Context)

A Control Station typically refers to: l l

• A fixed location station that communicates directly with mobile stations and other base stations.
• It may also serve as the central point of control for a system of cooperating stations, such as in repeater or auxiliary setups.

In amateur radio (Part 97), related terms include:

• Control Operator: The person responsible for ensuring the station complies with FCC rules.
• Control Point: The location at which the control operator exercises control over the station.
• Remote Control: Operation of a station from a distance via a control link, still under the supervision of a control operator.

You can explore the full regulatory definitions in 47 CFR § 97.3.

[SteveShannon]

10 minutes ago, LeoG said:

In order to be a control station it must be a fixed transmitter at 15 watts or less.  Usually fixed meaning it only communicates with another fixed station.

As soon as the net controller responds to others on the repeater he's not following fixed station etiquette and not a controller.

Don’t confuse Fixed Station with fixed location.  A Fixed Station is not the same as a Control Station. Nor is a Fixed Station the same as a Base Station.  All three are located in “fixed locations” but all three serve different purposes and have different limitations. A Fixed Station is limited to 15 watts and is required to only communicate with other Fixed Stations. Base Stations and Control Stations may have 50 watts and are used to communicate with other types of stations. 

[BoxCar]

2 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Don’t confuse Fixed Station with fixed location.  A Fixed Station is not the same as a Control Station. Nor is a Fixed Station the same as a Base Station.  All three are located in “fixed locations” but all three serve different purposes and have different limitations. A Fixed Station is limited to 15 watts and is required to only communicate with other Fixed Stations. Base Stations and Control Stations may have 50 watts and are used to communicate with other types of stations. 

Yes. It's best to think of fixed stations as transmitters permanently attached to a fixed pad firmly attached to the ground under them. They are used to send information from one permanent location to another station meeting the same mounting requirements. The best example for the simpletons is a radio transmitter connected to a gauge monitoring liquid levels or pressure at one location sending to a receiver at another permanent location that receives only the information from the sending unit of the pair.

[LeoG]

21 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Don’t confuse Fixed Station with fixed location.  A Fixed Station is not the same as a Control Station. Nor is a Fixed Station the same as a Base Station.  All three are located in “fixed locations” but all three serve different purposes and have different limitations. A Fixed Station is limited to 15 watts and is required to only communicate with other Fixed Stations. Base Stations and Control Stations may have 50 watts and are used to communicate with other types of stations. 

I'm seeing that after reading what Boxcar posted.

[SteveShannon]

10 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

Yes. It's best to think of fixed stations as transmitters permanently attached to a fixed pad firmly attached to the ground under them. They are used to send information from one permanent location to another station meeting the same mounting requirements. The best example for the simpletons is a radio transmitter connected to a gauge monitoring liquid levels or pressure at one location sending to a receiver at another permanent location that receives only the information from the sending unit of the pair.

That’s a great example. Another example would be dedicated intercoms between two or three buildings.

[UncleYoda]

4 hours ago, LeoG said:

In order to be a control station it must be a fixed transmitter at 15 watts or less.  Usually fixed meaning it only communicates with another fixed station.

As soon as the net controller responds to others on the repeater he's not following fixed station etiquette and not a controller.

You really have that mixed up.  Fixed station has nothing to do with this.

[UncleYoda]

4 hours ago, BoxCar said:

Yes. It's best to think of fixed stations as transmitters permanently attached to a fixed pad firmly attached to the ground under them. They are used to send information from one permanent location to another station meeting the same mounting requirements. The best example for the simpletons is a radio transmitter connected to a gauge monitoring liquid levels or pressure at one location sending to a receiver at another permanent location that receives only the information from the sending unit of the pair.

That doesn't match what FCC said.  (I put that in another thread.)  They specifically said "any station..." without qualifying it except for the specific fixed station limitations.  So IMO a base setup definitely fits when it follows the fixed station rules.   [And that's not what this topic/thread is about anyway.]

[BoxCar]

2 hours ago, UncleYoda said:

That doesn't match what FCC said.  (I put that in another thread.)  They specifically said "any station..." without qualifying it except for the specific fixed station limitations.  So IMO a base setup definitely fits when it follows the fixed station rules.   [And that's not what this topic/thread is about anyway.]

Show me a GMRS base station. One that is manufactured to fit the qualifications of a true base station, not cobbled together from a portable or mobile transceiver and power supply. The only units I can see that approximate the requirements of being in a fixed location are repeaters however, they fail the "communicates only with other fixed stations" prong of the FCC definition.

[UncleYoda]

1 hour ago, BoxCar said:

Show me a GMRS base station.

Well, I'm not doing show and tell.  You are wrong about the equipment.  It does not have to be a desktop type rig, i.e. a true base radio; mobiles and handhelds in a house, garage, radio shack, office, etc. with an external antenna on a pole, roof, chimney or in a tree are base stations.  That's what they mean by fixed location, and notice they always refer to base station not base radio.   My DB20G can be setup as base station, mobile station and portable station.  Even my UV5G can be a base station.

[AdmiralCochrane]

Seems like there is always the tendency to make things more complicated than the really are.

[BoxCar]

14 hours ago, UncleYoda said:

Well, I'm not doing show and tell.  You are wrong about the equipment.  It does not have to be a desktop type rig, i.e. a true base radio; mobiles and handhelds in a house, garage, radio shack, office, etc. with an external antenna on a pole, roof, chimney or in a tree are base stations.  That's what they mean by fixed location, and notice they always refer to base station not base radio.   My DB20G can be setup as base station, mobile station and portable station.  Even my UV5G can be a base station.

Define "fixed" in a legal and technical context:

 

Great question—“fixed” carries distinct meanings in legal and technical domains, and they’re surprisingly nuanced. Let’s break it down:

Legal Context
In law, “fixed” often refers to something that is permanent, definite, or not subject to change. Here are a few examples:
•     Fixed Term: A contract or agreement that lasts for a specific, predetermined period.
•     Fixed Penalty: A set fine or punishment that doesn’t vary based on circumstances.
•     Fixed Assets: Tangible property like buildings or equipment that are not easily converted to cash.
•     Copyright Law: A work is considered “fixed” when it is embodied in a tangible medium of expression—meaning it can be perceived, reproduced, or communicated for more than a short time (e.g., written on paper, recorded digitally).

Technical Context
In engineering, computing, and other technical fields, “fixed” typically implies non-variable, stable, or predetermined characteristics:
•     Fixed Value: A constant that does not change during computation or operation.
•     Fixed Point Arithmetic: A method of representing numbers where the decimal point is in a set position—used in systems with limited processing power.
•     Fixed Frequency: A signal or system operating at a constant frequency.
•     Fixed Installation: Equipment or infrastructure that is permanently mounted or not intended to be moved.

From the two contexts we can see that a fixed location consists of equipment that is permanently mounted or not intended to move or, not subject to change as it is at a definite and permanent location. As in my example, a repeater meets the qualifications of being permanently mounted and not intended to move or change. It fails the second tranche in that it does not communicate to other fixed stations. Stretching the permanently mounted or intended to move tranche, if you can pick it up because it isn't bolted down, it isn't fixed.

[WRUU653]

If someone in a jeep is talking on a mobile radio only to a buddy behind them and they both get stuck in the mud did their mobile radios turn into fixed stations? Asking for a friend.
 

 

if another person on a hand held is telling you what to do to get out, that’s a control station?

I’m sorry, I’m just getting my first coffee and lack of caffeine may be causing impairment. ️

Edited 3 hours ago by WRUU653
Context

[WRUE951]

Fixed Station on a Google Search  

 

 

Fixed Station Meaning

A fixed station in amateur radio refers to an amateur radio station established in a permanent structure, such as a home, school, or public building, where the equipment is not intended for portable operation. This is the most common form of amateur radio station. A typical fixed station is equipped with a transceiver, one or more antennas, and may include additional components like amplifiers, antenna rotators, SWR meters, and antenna tuners. While the term "base station" is often used interchangeably with "fixed station," meaning a radio station fixed in one place, usually in the home, the definition of a fixed station is not limited to a specific location and can be found in various permanent structures. The equipment is generally not designed for mobility, distinguishing it from mobile or temporary field stations.

[UncleYoda]

29 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

Fixed Station on a Google Search  

Totally meaningless, looks like AI junk.  Part 97 doesn't even use the term.

ppppps: this topic isn't about fixed stations

[WSJX263]

• A fixed station is a base station used in a system intended only to communicate with other base stations. A fixed station can also be radio link used to operate a distant base station by remote control. (No mobile or hand-held radios are involved in the system.)
• A control station is a base station used in a system with a repeater where the base station is used to communicate through the repeater.
• A temporary base is a base station used in one location for less than a year.
• A repeater is a type of base station that extends the range of hand-held and mobile radios.