Amateur radio needs more young folks.

[SteveShannon]

11 minutes ago, Lscott said:

The old guys are likely hard of hearing and that's the only way they can copy your call sign. 

This is exactly right.  I have a difficult time hearing the difference between M and N, B and D, V and Z, S and F, etc.  And I’m not the only one.  When I say my call sign, “AI7KS”, most people who don’t know it already hear “KI7KS”. There are a lot more call signs which begin with ‘K’ than ‘A’ so it’s understandable.

By saying “Alpha India 7 Kilo Sierra” when I first introduce myself I help them to hear it correctly at first.  Once I am known I relax back to “AI7KS”.

[UncleYoda]

10 hours ago, Lscott said:

The whole point of the amateur Radio Service is experimenting and the furthering of the radio art.

50-100 YEARS AGO, not anymore.  Radios are tools.  I don't make my own shotgun, or TV, or refrigerator either.  there is nothing about FCC requiring a ham license that applies to building radios, ham licensing is for use, nothing else.  Same for GMRS and other Part 95 services. ARRL needs to get over the old radio builder/experimenter idea.

[SteveShannon]

26 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

50-100 YEARS AGO, not anymore.  Radios are tools.  I don't make my own shotgun, or TV, or refrigerator either.  there is nothing about FCC requiring a ham license that applies to building radios, ham licensing is for use, nothing else.  Same for GMRS and other Part 95 services. ARRL needs to get over the old radio builder/experimenter idea.

Many amateur radio hobbyists still do build their own radios though, as well as other equipment.  In the past two years I have built my own automatic impedance match and antennas. I have a TruSDX radio kit in my build queue, hopefully for winter. But building radios is not all that LScott meant. Other amateurs are constantly extending the science of the hobby by coming up with new ways to communicate, including new digital modes that allow the use of HF or FM to transmit data and email without the need for the internet. 
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with you just using ham radio, but there are a whole bunch of us who continue to experiment and I believe this tradition continues to further the radio art.  For me, that makes the hobby much more personally satisfying.

[Lscott]

2 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

50-100 YEARS AGO, not anymore.  Radios are tools.  I don't make my own shotgun, or TV, or refrigerator either.  there is nothing about FCC requiring a ham license that applies to building radios, ham licensing is for use, nothing else. 

Whats the point of building a two-way radio if you can't use it? 

And yes there is plenty of experimentation being done in Armature Radio. 

just a few examples:

https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/ao-40-experiment-leads-successful-acquiring-of-gps-signals-on-moon.947672/

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20030025378/downloads/20030025378.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M17_(amateur_radio)

Granted more Hams are turning into "Appliance Operators" but the experimentation and building is still alive and well. 

For some of the Ham bands there is NO manufactured equipment for it, thus one has to build their own.

 

 

ARRL Microwave Projects Vol 1 - 2003 Ed.pdf

[WRYZ926]

I enjoy building/making stuff. I have not built any radios yet but I have built plenty of antennas from scratch along with assembling CW practice oscillators and assembling a couple Arcom RC210 controllers.

I have also installed some pretty tiny digital control boards on my N scale model locomotives. Those generally use 28-30 gauge wire and tiny solder pads.

One of the best investments I made for building/assembling and repairing electronics has been a digital microscope with a 10" screen. I use it and my Weller soldering station all of the time.

Our club has given classes on building J Pole antennas and making your own baluns and ununs.

On giving calls signs phonetically;

As mentioned, the receiving operator might be hard of hearing. Another good reason is if there is a high noise floor or weak signals. I always ask weak stations to give their call sign phonetically when I am net control.

On topic:

It is hard at times to get younger people interested in radio. We did the survey and charts of members ages to figure out where we stand. We are still trying to figure out the best ways to recruit younger people.

I am on the special activities committee for our club and am going to talk to the training guys about using WinLink as a possible means to get younger people interested. Showing them how we can send emails without the need for any Internet might peak their interests a bit.

And with setups like DigiPi, you can also run bulletin boards and such using radios and a Raspberry Pi.

There is something for everyone when it comes to amateur radio. It's just a matter of getting young people interested.

[WRUE951]

1 hour ago, Lscott said:

The old guys are likely hard of hearing and that's the only way they can copy your call sign. 

its not the old guys insisting on using Phonetics..  Hell, the old guys have better common sense and respect then the young HAM guys..  

[RogerSpendlove]

Thank you for your kind replies. Months ago I did spend hours and hours practicing with HamStudy.org, and just now I took a practice exam on HamExam.org that WSEZ864 recommended. Without studying, I got a 20/35  . I do believe that if I boned-up and prepared for a legitimate exam, I could get to a passing score. However, many of the questions reinforced why I complained that it is too science-heavy:

Requirements to use EchoLink?, which bands bounce off the ionosphere's F region?, components of a circuit diagram?, appearance of a cold-tin solder joint?, forward voltage drop in a diode?, function of an SPDT switch?, etc.

If such are asked on the exam, that indicates to me what is valued and needed for using a HAM license. And I'm sorry, some of us simply don't understand why that is necessary just to become a radio user and/or enjoy the hobby.

Ultimately, I decided Amateur Radio/HAM is not for me; it doesn't fill any need for myself or my troop.

Instead, GMRS perfectly fits what I and my troop needs.

I shared my experience here in this discussion to help you all see one perspective on why HAM is dying out and not appealing to youngsters. As I and others see it, HAM is needlessly restrictive, and appeals only to seriously deep science/technology geeks (I use the term affectionately ).

If I have a Trailman who has an inclination toward science/technology, or perhaps an emergency/first-responder career, I will certainly encourage him to look into Amateur Radio. But for the majority of youth, HAM seems restrictive and pointless.

But I am very thankful that GMRS exists! And I thank you all for answering the questions I've posted!

[TNFrank]

My main reason for getting into GMRS and now HAM is EmComs. I want to be able to talk to family and friends when/if the grid goes down or cell service isn't working. With the Repeaters in my area I can cover the entire valley so if I can get family and friends on board to get their GMRS/HAM License we'd be able to stay in touch.  A secondary reason is just to see how far and who I can talk to. Some of the HAM Repeaters here are linked so you can talk to people around the World with them.  I really do think Cell Phones have killed a lot of the hobby. "Why do I need a radio when I can use my phone?", well, Cell Service doesn't always work but a radio wave will always travel through the air and make contact with someone. Simple is many times better. 

[Lscott]

10 minutes ago, RogerSpendlove said:

If I have a Trailman who has an inclination toward science/technology, or perhaps an emergency/first-responder career, I will certainly encourage him to look into Amateur Radio. But for the majority of youth, HAM seems restrictive and pointless.

But I am very thankful that GMRS exists! And I thank you all for answering the questions I've posted!

Well, that's why the FCC created GMRS and expanded the service over the years. 

I wouldn't go so far and say the Armature Radio requirement aspects are pointless. They simply don't meet your expectations for your usage case, which seems is very basic with the emphasis on simplicity and ease of use. As you discovered GMRS, or CB radio, is more along the lines you want. 

[WSJX263]

I started out in CB radio in my teenage years. In 1993 got my Amateur/Ham radio license and around the first part of this month got my GMRS license. I don't do CB radio anymore, but mainly do VHF/UHF Ham and GMRS radio deal.

[marcspaz]

1 hour ago, RogerSpendlove said:

Ultimately, I decided Amateur Radio/HAM is not for me; it doesn't fill any need for myself or my troop.

Instead, GMRS perfectly fits what I and my troop needs.

 

Honestly, this is all that matters. If you have a need/want and you found the solution that fits your needs, it's a success. Im glad GMRS is working out for you. It really is a great service. 

[TNFrank]

I have a work acquaintance that I set up a couple radios for to use while he's hunting. He doesn't want to get a GMRS or HAM License so he just uses one of the MURS channels on the radios to communicate with.  It works for him, he doesn't need a License so he's happy with the set up. 

[LeoG]

Are they MURS rated radios 

Otherwise it doesn't follow regulation.

 

Being all technical and stuff..

[Lscott]

59 minutes ago, LeoG said:

Are they MURS rated radios 

Otherwise it doesn't follow regulation.

 

Being all technical and stuff..

The hunters out there using VHF Marine radios don't seem to care.

[TNFrank]

He doesn't care if they're MURS rated or not. I probably have them set up at more than 2w too, but again, he doesn't care. He's out in the woods hunting. 

[LeoG]

1 hour ago, Lscott said:

The hunters out there using VHF Marine radios don't seem to care.

And when the coast guard catches them they'll be in big trouble.

[Lscott]

12 hours ago, LeoG said:

And when the coast guard catches them they'll be in big trouble.

This has been going on for decades. When hunting season rolls around start scanning the VHF marine channels.

[TNFrank]

There are a lot of(by today's standards)pointless questions on the HAM Test. The electrical part was easy for me because of my Electronic Tech training from DeVry. It was all the Part 97 stuff I had to learn.  Truthfully, if they want the Hobby to survive they need to just make it like the GMRS license where you just pay your money and get the license.  Either that or make the questions more relevant to what HAM is being used for today, a fun hobby to connect with people and for emergency communication. 

[LeoG]

The questions are from a time where a lot of the equipment was built by people doing the hobby.  Now you go out and buy fully built systems that are plug an play for the most part.  Not sure if you need to dumb down the questions but a lot of them are irrelevant for the 1st level of the license.  Before it was something people wanted to get into because communication wasn't always easy.  Now you pick up your phone in the middle of nowhere and call someone on the other side of the Earth in the middle of nowhere and the connection is nearly perfect.

If you want the hobby to continue you now have to attract people into it.  And putting up a first barrier that will eliminate a lot of candidates isn't the way to do it.

 

I can already see the people who got their licenses when you needed to be good at CW or you failed with steam coming out of their ears.  That's OK.  You'll likely pass on your mortal coils soon and so will the hobby if they don't make the 1st level more attractive to people who are already more interested.

[SteveShannon]

59 minutes ago, TNFrank said:

There are a lot of(by today's standards)pointless questions on the HAM Test. The electrical part was easy for me because of my Electronic Tech training from DeVry. It was all the Part 97 stuff I had to learn.  Truthfully, if they want the Hobby to survive they need to just make it like the GMRS license where you just pay your money and get the license.  Either that or make the questions more relevant to what HAM is being used for today, a fun hobby to connect with people and for emergency communication. 

I disagree. They pretty much have to test at least some of the Part 97 requirements before allowing a person to begin transmitting.  If some people choose not to join amateur radio unless it’s as easy as buying (leasing?) a license, and they only want to be able to talk of their radio, there are several services, including MURS, FRS, CB, and GMRS, that are designed just for that.  Why would we want to change amateur radio to be that? Numbers of users isn’t always the most valuable metric.

[SteveShannon]

35 minutes ago, LeoG said:

The questions are from a time where a lot of the equipment was built by people doing the hobby.  Now you go out and buy fully built systems that are plug an play for the most part.  Not sure if you need to dumb down the questions but a lot of them are irrelevant for the 1st level of the license.  Before it was something people wanted to get into because communication wasn't always easy.  Now you pick up your phone in the middle of nowhere and call someone on the other side of the Earth in the middle of nowhere and the connection is nearly perfect.

If you want the hobby to continue you now have to attract people into it.  And putting up a first barrier that will eliminate a lot of candidates isn't the way to do it.

 

I can already see the people who got their licenses when you needed to be good at CW or you failed with steam coming out of their ears.  That's OK.  You'll likely pass on your mortal coils soon and so will the hobby if they don't make the 1st level more attractive to people who are already more interested.

No the questions are not from “a time”…

The questions are rewritten every four years.

When was the last time you read through the pool of questions?

[TNFrank]

9 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

I disagree. They pretty much have to test at least some of the Part 97 requirements before allowing a person to begin transmitting. 

Then they need to redo the test to reflect what current users need to know. Much of the electrical stuff was needed years ago when you had to build your own gear but today most folks just buy a ready made set-up do knowing what a diode or resistor is is a moot point.

As questions related to frequency, bands, antennas, etc.

[SteveShannon]

14 minutes ago, TNFrank said:

Then they need to redo the test to reflect what current users need to know. Much of the electrical stuff was needed years ago when you had to build your own gear but today most folks just buy a ready made set-up do knowing what a diode or resistor is is a moot point.

As questions related to frequency, bands, antennas, etc.

The tech test was redone three years ago. A new one will be released next July. All of the tests are rewritten every four years. 
Many people still do build kits or even scratch build and often times people repair old equipment rather than buying new. 
But I doubt that being unable read a schematic or identify the cathode of a diode would result in failing the test anyway. 

[UncleYoda]

2 hours ago, TNFrank said:

they need to just make it like the GMRS license where you just pay your money and get the license.  Either that or make the questions more relevant to what HAM is being used for today

More relevant questions would be my vote.  No test would mean too many people who don't know the basics.

[Lscott]

20 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

But I doubt that being unable read a schematic or identify the cathode of a diode would result in failing the test anyway. 

I've asked recently graduated EE's if they know what a vacuum tube is. I get blank stares and say they are sort of like "glow FET's". Still get blank stares. Gee WTF are they teaching these kids now-days?