Do you talk to the --- unlicensed?

[Unit61]

Note: for some reason this computer will not allow me to quote or copy/paste.

 

As I noted above, if the *user* is using a bubble pack radio that only allows .5W and a non-replaceable antenna then ALL FRS channels, including the interstitial channels, are available for use.

This is correct so long as they are the 14-Ch. FRS radios. As far as I am aware anything that is Dual Service (22-Ch, or more now days) is also dual power on the interstitial channels making them unusable on anything other than channels 8-14 by anyone without a GMRS license. And even the dual service radios are required to have permanent install antennas as they are still capable of transmitting on FRS only Ch's-8-14.

[Unit61]

If you operate on the shared frequencies above .5W you are a GMRS user. If you operate at .5W with the integral antenna you are an FRS user. The FCC clearly states that on their website.

 

The bubble pack radios, therefore, are approved, authorized, allowed, etc on the shared channels.

This statement is correct in the sense of the power and antenna design for use as an FRS station. However you can still be classified as a GMRS user using 500mW with an integral antenna on the interstitial frequencies as using the 22-Ch bubble pack radios would place you in wide band on those frequencies unless the MFR designed it for Narrow band only or to switch automatically with the power level used.

[chiefeis]

Uh, I think we already hashed this out. 

[wqyy664]

The only unlicensed use we get around here is the Ky Dept of Transportation using bubble pack radio's on GMRS for traffic control and the occasional hunters. I leave the hunters alone, would you want to argue with a guy and his gun?

Also, a couple of the schools here use FRS for handling traffic in their parking lots and since I live close to a major highway I hear both frs/gmrs traffic for a few minutes as they pass through my area. Once they get past a large mountain that stands between me and the parkway they are pretty much out of reach.

Once in a great while  I hear K-DOT using MURS.

[radio1]

About 2:00 AM one morning I over heard two guys planning a break in several miles away using their bubble pack radios. I started answering their transmissions, which produced stunned silence, followed by the statement "Go to the secret channel".  I turned on the scanner and found the "secret" channel in about 10 seconds. I then pretended to be a hidden observer who would "keep them in sight" until the police arrived. Panic ensued and the nefarious activities were abandoned for the evening.

That sounds like the movie "The Bank Job" where an amateur overhears the robbers and informs police...

[satzmichael]

On that, we are both in total agreement. However, if the user keeps the radio in low power FRS mode, there's no reason they can not use the lower 7 channels.

 

But then that begs the issue of radios being sold to the unknowing and uninformed who don't read the manual and if they did, they'd ignore the limitation anyway.

The unknowing, uninformed and unwashed such as myself are trying to follow the byzantine and myriad regulations but you have to be an engineer and attorney to understand them. I just want an easy way to communicate with my family when cell service is down (like on a cruise ship). I just obtained my license and WANT to be in compliance; that's why I signed up for this site, but if even seasoned users such as yourselves can't agree on what is legal and what is not; what hope do us newbies have? You guys throw out terms of khrtz, simplex, duplex, ctrss, and a thousand other terms us non-engineering background folk have no clue of what those are; yet I am trying to be in compliance (and yes, this is after reading the manual cover to cover). Now, in my mind, I am hearing voices of Yoda saying, "relax, Luke, use the force" before I key up my handheld. It just seems we shouldn't need an engineering degree to talk on the "family" frequencies when licensed.  

[WQYC236]

The unknowing, uninformed and unwashed such as myself are trying to follow the byzantine and myriad regulations but you have to be an engineer and attorney to understand them. I just want an easy way to communicate with my family when cell service is down (like on a cruise ship). I just obtained my license and WANT to be in compliance; that's why I signed up for this site, but if even seasoned users such as yourselves can't agree on what is legal and what is not; what hope do us newbies have? You guys throw out terms of khrtz, simplex, duplex, ctrss, and a thousand other terms us non-engineering background folk have no clue of what those are; yet I am trying to be in compliance (and yes, this is after reading the manual cover to cover). Now, in my mind, I am hearing voices of Yoda saying, "relax, Luke, use the force" before I key up my handheld. It just seems we shouldn't need an engineering degree to talk on the "family" frequencies when licensed.  

 

Try not to get too discouraged with all the technical terms. It just seems overwhelming at first, before long you'll be dropping MHz bombs like a pro. Something that helps me is to just pick a couple of technical terms and do an on line search for a simple explanation. Eventually it will begin to make sense. 

[WRAF213]

And don't be afraid to ask! There may be some bitter people out there, but there are at least as many people out there that want to help new licensees get on the air with good operating practice and knowledge.

 

I find it helps to listen a lot, like when you aren't able (or willing) to talk but can have a receiver on. You'll catch on to patterns in their behavior, and active attempts at mimicking that will feel natural before you know it. A pretty common thing that licensed folk do is use the NATO phonetic alphabet for identification etc., it's something good and easy to learn (start with your own callsign), and can be useful outside of radio too.

[mainehazmt]

I just wanted to add to this, HIPPA does not specify the form of communication as its restrictions apply directly to the information contained not the means of transmitting that information.. If someone is violating HIPPA laws it does not matter how or where they are doing it, it is still a violation.. Dissemination of information in any means to anyone other than those privileged to receive it is a violation. It could be in person, over the phone, over the Air or what have it.

When training as an Emergency Medical Technician it was pounded into our heads never ever give a patients personal information over the radio or telephone to the hospital or anyone else for that matter. When transmitting vitals and other 

pertinent information the most we could do is give the patients age and sex over the air. The rest of the information went into the report.

thats what we did and if we wanted to get more specific on certain people we might add they are a “frequent flyer”. That help narrow down some info lol

[timpate316]

In my area it is very quiet. Now for those on GMRS frequencies a lot of kids.Murs Channel three is very active it's very nice very respectful community.

[H8SPVMT]

Who knows, maybe.  At Jeep Rallys maybe.  We usually don't use call signs during our introductions nor during our conversations deep in the woods.

We are "some people"!

 

[OffRoaderX]

11 minutes ago, H8SPVMT said:

We are "some people"!

Only "some people" would resurrect a 7 year old dead thread.

[nokones]

36 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

Only "some people" would resurrect a 7 year old dead thread.

You think "some people" would just start a new discussion, in this case, I guess "some people" won't.

[WRTC928]

On 12/22/2017 at 1:37 AM, satzmichael said:

I just want an easy way to communicate with my family when cell service is down (like on a cruise ship). I just obtained my license and WANT to be in compliance; that's why I signed up for this site, but if even seasoned users such as yourselves can't agree on what is legal and what is not; what hope do us newbies have?

It's not really too complicated.

FRS radios and unlicensed users are restricted to 2 watts on channels 1-7, 0.5 watts on channels 8-14, and back up to 2 watts on channels 15-22. FRS radios and unlicensed users are restricted to narrow (12.5 kHz) bandwidth on all channels.

GMRS licensed users are allowed 5 watts and wide (20 kHz) bandwidth on channels 1-7, 0.5 watts and narrow bandwidth on channels 8-14 (the same as FRS users), and up to 50 watts and wide bandwidth on channels 15-22 and repeater input frequencies.

It's noteworthy that most GMRS or ham radios won't go as low as 0.5 watts, and it's common for the manufacturers of GMRS radios to just leave out channels 8-14. They may or may not renumber the channels.

With regard to communicating with your family, you're all allowed to use the same GMRS license, which makes it fairly simple. Use GMRS radios and stay off channels 8-14. Most GMRS handheld radios aren't capable of more than 5 watts anyway, but if yours are, dial it down to 5w on 1-7. 

Licensed GMRS users with GMRS radios are allowed to communicate with FRS users, and the rules for you remain the same. You don't have to go down to 2 watts or narrow bandwidth on 1-7 and 15-22, but the requirements for identifying yourself by your call sign remain the same. Presumably, if your GMRS radio is capable of 0.5 watt and narrow bandwidth, you could talk to FRS users on those channels, but I wouldn't bother. Some GMRS radios (IIRC) include 8-14 as "receive only" channels, and that's probably useful sometimes.

Hand out 5 watt HTs programmed for channels 1-7 and 15-22 to your family and have at it. More than 5 watts is pretty much pointless in an HT anyway, given the limitations of the antenna.

[OffRoaderX]

4 minutes ago, WRTC928 said:

It's not really too complicated.

You're a bit late to this party:

[WRTC928]

27 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

You're a bit late to this party:

For some reason, it was highlighted as a recent thread.  Probably just to make me look foolish.

Let he who has never replied to an old thread cast the first aspersion. 

[OffRoaderX]

Just now, WRTC928 said:

For some reason, it was highlighted as a recent thread

Yah, that's @H8SPVMT's fault....

[H8SPVMT]

7 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

Yah, that's @H8SPVMT's fault....

We are "some people"! YEA, I enjoy using past descriptions of, "Some People" and behavior, just to get the attention of "Some People'" 

Good morning.....

[BoxCar]

To throw another fish on the pile, use of personal radios on a ship require the permission of the captain.

[SteveShannon]

11 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

You're a bit late to this party:

 

10 hours ago, WRTC928 said:

For some reason, it was highlighted as a recent thread.  Probably just to make me look foolish.

Let he who has never replied to an old thread cast the first aspersion. 

That’s okay, it was a very good answer anyway. 

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, BoxCar said:

To throw another fish on the pile, use of personal radios on a ship require the permission of the captain.

You would be shocked to see how many people don't know this fact. 

I can imagine US tourists using their FRS radios while the ship is docked in a foreign port and those frequencies are used by the local fire and police. 

[WRYS709]

What’s even more confusing is that the premise in OP’s initial post (that the FRS channels are different than the GMRS channels), has been removed over time!

[GreggInFL]

22 hours ago, Lscott said:

You would be shocked to see how many people don't know this fact. 

I can imagine US tourists using their FRS radios while the ship is docked in a foreign port and those frequencies are used by the local fire and police. 

It can be worse than that. Some cruise lines make money renting out radios to travelers who know their cell phones won't work at sea. Scanning around any of the many cruise ports in Florida leads to much hilarity as one listens to conversations about the buffet specials. Hopefully, the crew knows enough to not match the radio freqs with anything important.

I've taken radios on cruises to foreign countries more than once. I ask the officers what freqs are used for such things as port operations, on-board comms, ship-to-ship, etc. and underline the fact that it's RX only, no TX, that I'm interested in. Most officers are cooperative and curious, others have told me to lock it in the safe and not to touch it for the remainder of the trip; apparently it is illegal to just listen to some channels in some places. I always bring the cheapest, POS CCR in the inventory in case it gets confiscated.

Of course, one could avoid all this by just scanning on a hacked UV-5R; at least that's what I read on the internet.

[Lscott]

4 hours ago, GreggInFL said:

apparently it is illegal to just listen to some channels in some places.

As an example. One would think in a modern country like the UK monitoring like we do here, basically everything, is legal. Nope.

https://www.monitoringtimes.com/html/mtlaws_may04.html

[GreggInFL]

8 hours ago, Lscott said:

As an example. One would think in a modern country like the UK monitoring like we do here, basically everything, is legal. Nope.

https://www.monitoringtimes.com/html/mtlaws_may04.html

I heard that but have been skeptical. Thanks for the documentation. Wow.