CrossBand Repeater

[taco6513]

I have a AT-5888UV that has cross band repeater function. I was wanting to be a part of a net last night.

My HT wasn't receiving the signal. I am using a high number DCS tone. and a low power setting on both

the mobile and HT. Also What are good channels on UHF to use on this application? 

Thanks

KI5GXD

[Jones]

The 431.0-433.0 MHz and 435.0-438.0 MHz segments are a NO-NO by FCC law for FM.  (Part 97, subpart 39)  Stay out of those areas.  420-432 and 438-442 is used for amateur television, so that's no good either.

 

Ideally, you would want to be somewhere between 442.025 and 446.075 on an .025MHz step.  Just listen first, research the repeaters in your area to make sure you are not close in frequency to any of them, and you'll be fine.  For instance, for my cross-band at home, I use 443.325, with a DCS tone to keep others out.  It crosses to my local 146.820 VHF machine about 20 miles away.

 

Keep in mind that the national simplex calling frequency for 70cm FM is 446.000, so you'll want to stay clear of that also.

[WRAK968]

Also note that crossband repeat is NOT ALLOWED on GMRS (Repeaters are not allowed on MURS anyways, but crossbanding both MURS and GMRS is also not allowed)

[Lscott]

Also note that crossband repeat is NOT ALLOWED on GMRS (Repeaters are not allowed on MURS anyways, but crossbanding both MURS and GMRS is also not allowed)

Also you can't crossband between the Amateur Radio service to GMRS or MURS either.

[gman1971]

You could just do a simple GMRS simplex repeater with two radios (one mobile and one portable, for example). Have the portable radio RX and TX on low power on freq #1, then have another radio, a mobile, set to RX and TX on high power on freq #2. You set freq#2 to whatever GMRS channel you want to reach far away, and set freq#1 to whatever your portable is. Use a repeater controller to connect the portable to the mobile and two antennas. If you use low enough power on the freq#1 side (potentially adding a 10dB attenuator inline with the portable to antenna) you won't need any cavities and it should work rather nicely. 

 

G.

[Lscott]

You could just do a simple GMRS simplex repeater with two radios

Or do a "parrot" repeater. This is where you TX and the controller will record the message. When you're done it then re-transmits the message. This of course slows down the communication, and some find them annoying to use, but are simple to setup using one radio and fairly cheap. There are several YouTube videos where a guy did this putting the guts in an ammo can with a battery and charge controller connected to a used solar panel. He used the metal ammo can for the ground plane required by the antenna. Stuck it on a mountain top in a very remote area. Had it there for about a year or so running before having to service it.  

 

The repeater controller he used should be like this one.

 

https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=98

[gman1971]

That too. Parrot has the advantage of only needing 1 radio.

 

G.

 

Or do a "parrot" repeater. This is where you TX and the controller will record the message. When you're done it then re-transmits the message. This of course slows down the communication, and some find them annoying to use, but are simple to setup using one radio and fairly cheap. There are several YouTube videos where a guy did this putting the guts in an ammo can with a battery and charge controller connected to a used solar panel. He used the metal ammo can for the ground plane required by the antenna. Stuck it on a mountain top in a very remote area. Had it there for about a year or so running before having to service it.  

 

The repeater controller he used should be like this one.

 

https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=98

[Downs]

Or do a "parrot" repeater. This is where you TX and the controller will record the message. When you're done it then re-transmits the message. This of course slows down the communication, and some find them annoying to use, but are simple to setup using one radio and fairly cheap. There are several YouTube videos where a guy did this putting the guts in an ammo can with a battery and charge controller connected to a used solar panel. He used the metal ammo can for the ground plane required by the antenna. Stuck it on a mountain top in a very remote area. Had it there for about a year or so running before having to service it.

 

The repeater controller he used should be like this one.

 

https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=98

I believe that was guerilla communications on youtube.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Downs]

 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[RCM]

I have a AT-5888UV that has cross band repeater function. I was wanting to be a part of a net last night.

My HT wasn't receiving the signal. I am using a high number DCS tone. and a low power setting on both

the mobile and HT. Also What are good channels on UHF to use on this application? 

Thanks

KI5GXD

I do that sometimes with an Alinco DR-605. I find a clear frequency between 433.000 and 435.000 MHz. That segment is listed in the band plan as "auxiliary and repeater links."

[marcspaz]

I do something similar to RCM.  I like 445.000 through 447.000, which is coordinated for auxiliary and control links, repeaters and simplex.

[Jones]

Also note that crossband repeat is NOT ALLOWED on GMRS (Repeaters are not allowed on MURS anyways, but crossbanding both MURS and GMRS is also not allowed)

Very true, but the OP was posted in the Amateur Radio (Ham) section of the forums.

[kipandlee]

one of our setups uses the ADS-SR1 ( "parrot" repeater ) works great i like the units  voice mail function allowing users to record messages for later retrieval comes in handy on occasions 

[Lscott]

If you want to do an "in-band" repeater you will need two radios, a duplexer and a controller as the main components.

 

You can buy a cheap UHF duplexer at this site. If you supply the two frequencies they will tune the filter at no extra cost. Also don't forget to get any N to whatever RF adapter you will need to connect to the radios and the antenna.

 

www.409shop.com/409shop_shopcat.php?&usercat=4942

 

If you want to know how well these cheap Chinese duplexers work a guy did some testing on one here.

 

http://www.repeater-builder.com/antenna/pdf/chinese-mobile-duplexer-measurements.pdf

 

Then use a simple repeater controller like this one.

 

https://radio-tone.com/product/rt-crc1-repater-controller-full-duplex/

 

I see ad's for the "Surecom" controllers but have read a lot of bad or poor reviews. The one above seems to be OK. Also don't forget to get the right radio interface cables with it.

[gman1971]

If you want to do an "in-band" repeater you will need two radios, a duplexer and a controller as the main components.

 

You can buy a cheap UHF duplexer at this site. If you supply the two frequencies they will tune the filter at no extra cost. Also don't forget to get any N to whatever RF adapter you will need to connect to the radios and the antenna.

 

www.409shop.com/409shop_shopcat.php?&usercat=4942

 

If you want to know how well these cheap Chinese duplexers work a guy did some testing on one here.

 

http://www.repeater-builder.com/antenna/pdf/chinese-mobile-duplexer-measurements.pdf

 

Then use a simple repeater controller like this one.

 

https://radio-tone.com/product/rt-crc1-repater-controller-full-duplex/

 

I see ad's for the "Surecom" controllers but have read a lot of bad or poor reviews. The one above seems to be OK. Also don't forget to get the right radio interface cables with it.

 

I've had good luck with surecom controllers, but then again I only have 2, so the sampling is very small, perhaps I got just 2 which were good? Mine are battery operated too, so I can use them on the go. They are the only ones I've tried that will work on Anytone radios, all others I've tried will cut the first 1/2 second or so of the transmission.

 

G.

[Lscott]

I've had good luck with surecom controllers, but then again I only have 2,

Which ones have you used? I've been looking at reviews on these on and off for a while and I'm not likening the comments I've read, to many negative ones.

 

Yes I've seen the comments about the first half second being cut off. That's happen to me with radios with VOX operation or a VOX headset so seeing it mentioned with the controller isn't a concern. All it means is the electronics needs enough audio signal level to detect long enough to ensure somebody is really talking so the radio TX isn't tripped randomly.

 

What gets me are reports about out and out failures or the audio is fine for a while then for no reason is distorted. Some reports the controller will no longer switch the TX radio on etc. One guy said power cycling his would fix the audio distortion problem on his for a short while then mess up again.

 

Then there are people like you who say they have no issues. From those that don't report issues to the frequent ones who do I begin to question the manufactures quality control.

[gman1971]

I have two Surecom 629s, usb and battery powered. So far they haven't let me down and I've tried a bunch of radios on them... including a TM-V71a Kenwood, a TH-F6a, Alinco MD5, BF-1801....

 

Distortion has happened when the input was too strong, if you max out the volume on the TM-V71a, for example, then you'll hear a mess, but you set volume back to 1/2 way and audio is fine. At least that has been my experience.

 

Also an excessive input level could be too much for the controller to handle over time (guess). so perhaps setting the volume to a level that opens up, and can be heard is all you really need?

 

G.

[Lscott]

I was looking at the 628’s, not the 629’s, originally. Now I’m not sure. I just purchased a Kenwood TK-2000 package with programming cable and software new on eBay for $50. I was going to experiment using that radio and a Baofeng BF-888 with an MFJ-916 duplexer to make a simple low power VHF/UHF cross band repeater.

[gman1971]

I read the same things about the other models so I settled for the 629 which is also battery operated, therefore you can take it on the go if need be.

 

G.

[Lscott]

Maybe I should take another look at the 629's.

[n4gix]

I've tried many times to participate in nets via cross-band and found it most unsatisfactory. Why one may reasonably ask? Simple, if the hang time on the remote repeater is long, it's difficult to get an word in edgewise! 

 

For some reason a lot of people won't wait for the repeater to drop before keying up, especially during a round of check ins.. Go figure!

[marcspaz]

Yes... a repeater to a repeater is usually not a good time. Plus, there is delays in key up times, leading to a word or 3 missing from the start of your transmission.

[n4gix]

Oh, not to forget the heating taking place on one's cross-band radio from the 'extended keyup times'...

[RCM]

Yes... a repeater to a repeater is usually not a good time. Plus, there is delays in key up times, leading to a word or 3 missing from the start of your transmission.

Don't get me started on that! There are some lids around here that I have no clue what their legal callsign is, because I have never heard the first half of it!

[RCM]

Oh, not to forget the heating taking place on one's cross-band radio from the 'extended keyup times'...

Agreed.

I just saw a discussion on another forum where most of the participants are 100 percent convinced that a portable "repeater" consisting of a Chinese dual bander in an ammo can with a battery, crossbanding from GMRS to 2 Meters, and a few Chinese dual band HTs to access it, is an awesome setup that can't possibly have any technical problems. And the illegality of it is just a minor technicality and not worth discussing beyond saying nobody will really notice nor care.

 

To those guys a couple of commercial UHF rigs, a simple controller and a pair of antennas with feedlines is way too complicated to even consider.