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Intentional repeater jamming and how to deal with it

repeater jamming repeater jamming

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#21 JohnE

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 05:53 PM

as marc mentioned never let them see you sweat.

(TOT) time out timer, my machines are set to 3min

split PL's and never make them public.

a machine you can remotely control over the air, second input or LAN/wire line.

there are other alternatives like LTR controllers but that limits who can use the machine.

on that note I've had my share of people who jam/have no respect for the time effort and $$$$ that goes into running a machine.


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#22 Lscott

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 10:23 PM

What is funny in a couple of years these yahoos will probably asking permissions to use the repeater once they get a clue.

Or they setup their own repeater and find repeater jamming isn’t so funny when they’re the ones suffering with the annoying behavior.



#23 WRAK968

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 06:39 AM

John: As said previously, I do have a 2 minute timer (likely saved the machine.) I have removed the tones from public view, as much as I did not want to do so. Dad (Co-owner) and I are considering doing the split tone option to stop anymore intentional jamming. Just sucks that once again, one idiot has to ruin things for others. Gonna wait and see if they jam the machine tonight and go from there.

LScott: That would be the ultimate irony wouldn't it.



#24 marcspaz

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 09:30 AM

Split tone may be the way to go. Helps stop radios with tone scanning features from picking up the input tone, too.

I have used reverse DCS on portable machines during emergencies, too.

#25 n1das

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 09:48 AM

Hi, first post on myGMRS and long time lurker.  Ham licensed since the 1980s and GMRS licensed since 1992.

 

This brings back memories of some dealings I had with a jammer 15-20 years ago.  I had a GMRS repeater at home for local area chit chat and the jammer liked to target myself and a friend of mine.  We were the only users of the repeater.  The repeater was on DPL instead of PL which annoyed the jammer to no end because his antiquated equipment only had CTCSS/PL and he didn't have a clue about DCS/DPL.  He also liked to target us when on local simplex since he lived in my friend's neighborhood.  I lived several miles away so the repeater was not local to the jammer.  The jammer was legendary for jamming on GMRS, FRS, and CB19...wherever he could get attention and hold an audience.  He mostly stayed on CB19 because he managed to hold the largest audience there.  He was legendary in the local CB, ham and GMRS communities and the FCC also dealt with him a few times.  We were largely successful at ignoring the jammer on GMRS but he persisted.  We continued to use GMRS legally like the jammer was not there, never acknowledging his existence.

 

We also brought the fight to him.  The repeater was at home and I lived several miles away so I took the repeater mobile and my friend rode with me in the car while we chatted on the repeater with our portables.  We were separated by the distance between us in the front seats and the repeater was on the back seat, powered by the car and with a UHF mobile antenna on the roof.  The repeater all by itself worked excellent in the mobile installation.  We were in my friend's neighborhood and the jammer was just down the street from us.  We were so close to the repeater that the jammer couldn't make a dent in our communications, no matter how hard he tried. We were close enough to the jammer that he could hear the repeater on a scanner while transmitting to see if he was successful at jamming us (he wasn't).  I was also listening on the repeater input and heard him try multiple CTCSS/PL tones to try to key the repeater (he couldn't).   I also later heard him viciously ranting on CB19 about being unable to get into the repeater.  He finally gave up trying to bother us on the repeater.

 

What worked best was to never let him see us sweat and make him think he was having zero impact on us.

 

I know this is going to sound strange, but I have had to deal with this several times in the past. Fixing it on their end, psychologically, usually works best.

First, never do or say anything on the air that would give the troublemakers an indication that they are impacting you. That is what they want... to know they are trolling you.

The next thing to do is to make them think they are having zero affect on you. On repeater systems, We have gotten 3 or 4 people together in a parking lot and all started talking to each other on the mobiles, via the repeater. Even though jammers were jamming the repeater, we can all hear each other directly and just keep talking on the radio, having a full convo. Whenever the jammer lets his/her mic up and hears everyone talking as if nothing is happening, they start to realize that they are not impacting you. Then, they give up and go away.

We do that on HF all the time too. We get some knucklehead try to cause interference on frequency, but most of the guys in the club are friends, we we get on the phone and talk over the phone in a conf call and on the radio at the same time. Me and my buddy Danny only live 35 miles apart and both have 1,500 watt stations. When someone tries to interfere with us, we just talk right over them.

Using the methods I mention... usually 2 or 3 minutes of not getting the attention they want, and get get bored and go away. Lot easier than calling the FCC, who rarely does anything.


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David Sterrett, N1DAS

Nashua, NH, USA

Ham [HA] = N1DAS (2/1984)

GMRS [ZA] = KAE9013 (12/1992)

 


#26 berkinet

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 10:31 AM

You all do realize, if the jammer(s) did get the PL times from MyGMRS, they are probably reading this thread and likely enjoying the attention.
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.

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#27 kidphc

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 11:07 AM

You all do realize, if the jammer(s) did get the PL times from MyGMRS, they are probably reading this thread and likely enjoying the attention.

If that is the case, those people deserve to lose their license. Goes against the spirit of the community.

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#28 berkinet

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 11:15 AM

If that is the case, those people deserve to lose their license. Goes against the spirit of the community.

 

They deserve to lose their license for simply violating the regulations for simply interfering with another communication.

§ 95.333 Prohibited uses.

No person shall use a Personal Radio Service station:

...

(d) To intentionally interfere with the communications of another station;

(e) To transmit obscene, profane or indecent words, language or meaning; or

...

 

§ 95.1733 Prohibited GMRS uses.

(a) In addition to the prohibited uses outlined in § 95.333 of this chapter, GMRS stations must not communicate:

...

(4) Music, whistling, sound effects or material to amuse or entertain;

...

(10) Continuous or uninterrupted transmissions, except for communications involving the immediate safety of life or property; and

...


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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.

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#29 GuySagi

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 11:16 AM

Well, berkinet's post is sobering. I did, however, want to thank jec6613 for the tips. Great stuff and very educational. I'm not relying solely on GMRS for punching out an emergency message, but reminders like yours are always smart. The more systems I have, the better off I am. And if the jammer is indeed reading this, if he or she actually can read, not all gmrs transmissions are routine work or pleasure related. In my case that repeater could be lifesaving. If you're jamming it when (God forbid) I need it, I will indeed invest in that doppler system, locate your home and engage an ambulance-chasing attorney to recover that investment in gear, attorney fees, court costs and damages—and I've never, ever done something like that in my life, but when deliberate stupidity jeopardizes my family...I apologize to the fine regulars here for my terse tone and promise to avoid doing so again, dang it. 

 

#30 w4thm

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 12:44 PM

lol jammers! That's a sport down here...

 

1) the FCC aint gonna do squat. You rule quoters are spinning your wheels. Even when a case is handed to them on a silver platter with video it still takes a bit of harassing them to get them to show up. 

2) Marc is on the right track. Ignoring them and talking over them demoralizes them. It's no fun kicking a fence if the dog doesn't bark. This works for most situations.

3) On the flip side of what Marc says, some of us down here have become expert hecklers. The last thing a heckler expects is a full on attack from a group of experienced hecklers. You better bring your humiliation "A" game though.



#31 WRAK968

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 01:59 PM

 

Well, berkinet's post is sobering. I did, however, want to thank jec6613 for the tips. Great stuff and very educational. I'm not relying solely on GMRS for punching out an emergency message, but reminders like yours are always smart. The more systems I have, the better off I am. And if the jammer is indeed reading this, if he or she actually can read, not all gmrs transmissions are routine work or pleasure related. In my case that repeater could be lifesaving. If you're jamming it when (God forbid) I need it, I will indeed invest in that doppler system, locate your home and engage an ambulance-chasing attorney to recover that investment in gear, attorney fees, court costs and damages—and I've never, ever done something like that in my life, but when deliberate stupidity jeopardizes my family...I apologize to the fine regulars here for my terse tone and promise to avoid doing so again, dang it. 

 

 

A word of warning. I am a licensed security rep, DON'T EVER CONFRONT SOMEONE IN PERSON to make a legal threat. Too many crazy people who would just pull a trigger to get rid of you. Catching or stopping a jammer is not worth your life.



#32 jec6613

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 02:33 PM

Well, berkinet's post is sobering. I did, however, want to thank jec6613 for the tips. Great stuff and very educational. I'm not relying solely on GMRS for punching out an emergency message, but reminders like yours are always smart. The more systems I have, the better off I am.

As a quick follow-up, a Rhombic for GMRS packs stupidly small, as small as those tacticool folding antennas. You just need about 4 yards of wire, an 800 Ohm resistor, 4 one foot long sticks, a bit of feed line, and the hard part: a 16:1 balun, and you have 16+ dBd gain, or over 18 dbi gain.

Radiotelegraph and telephone services used to use them on HF for AM voice and CW, they provided a reliable link from LA to Shanghai, and London to Johannesburg, among other pairs.
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#33 GuySagi

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 05:06 PM

Good advice wrak968. I’m too old to get in a tussle that’s for sure.

So where do I find plans to build a rhombic?

#34 kidphc

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 05:08 PM

https://www.mapabili...bic/rhombic.php

Scale down to desirable frequency.

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#35 GuySagi

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 06:33 AM

Thank you for the link.....looks like an awesome project for me and my grandson. 


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#36 kidphc

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 07:23 AM

Thank you for the link.....looks like an awesome project for me and my grandson.

Ever thought about a yagi instead. Yes it is directional. But there are instructions all over the internet on homebrew styles, usually using yard stick tape (from harbor freight) and pvc pipe. You can also make an attenuator for fox hunts. Homebrew jpoles are popular to experiment with. All usually costing less $60.

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#37 berkinet

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 07:40 AM

Ever thought about a yagi instead. ...

 

Yagis are excellent antennas, very useful for many permanent station locations, and, sturdy and easy to build. However, for DFing (Direction Finding) their reception pattern is broader with less of a null just off the center than a rhombic.  Another antenna design that does quite well for DFing is the Loop Antenna.


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.

-- Marcus Aurelius


#38 jec6613

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 10:34 AM

Rhombics also travel more easily than yagis generally. A yagi is limited by needing to have a dipole in the middle and ridgid support, while a rhombic is basically a random wire. The half wavelength above ground for that 5 degree upwards angle is tricky for, say, the 11m CB band, let alone something like 160m or 80m amateur bands where the antennas can be multi-acre in size, but for 1.75m Murs and 63cm GMRS it's no problem.

The only tricky part is getting the angle correct, and the 16:1 balun to run a 800-900 Ohm antenna.

They're also REALLY wideband, so make perfect TV antennas if you want OTA HDTV.

#39 kidphc

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 10:38 AM

Yagis are excellent antennas, very useful for many permanent station locations, and, sturdy and easy to build. However, for DFing (Direction Finding) their reception pattern is broader with less of a null just off the center than a rhombic. Another antenna design that does quite well for DFing is the Loop Antenna.

Oh I get it. There is a reason the AARL has it as part of the logo. Is the there that much difference in sensitivity between a loop and rhombic?

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#40 berkinet

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 10:46 AM

... Is the there that much difference in sensitivity between a loop and rhombic?

 

Good question.  Hopefully someone will answer. Otherwise I will dig around the Internet this evening.


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.

-- Marcus Aurelius






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