Best option(s) to link repeaters?

[djxs]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:03 PM, BoxCar said:

It depends on where the repeater is installed. Remember, height equals coverage area.

On that note: I really need help in creating/developing an idea...Need pictures, sketches, links to pictures etc for how I can place a home base antenna so that I can then attach a Retevis RT97 repeater. I would later do something like @OffRoaderX did with his dual KG1000G setup, but I just don't have that budget yet. I figure that as long as I have the home base antenna, I can always switch repeater systems. 

I don't have a big budget, I just want an antenna system that I can put up on my own and is not obtrusively ugly looking (aesthetics) is a big topic for the neighbors. 

I will take any tips, ideas that you all can provide. Thank you!

[mbrun]

On that note: I really need help in creating/developing an idea...Need pictures, sketches, links to pictures etc for how I can place a home base antenna so that I can then attach a Retevis RT97 repeater. I would later do something like [mention=2438]OffRoaderX[/mention] did with his dual KG1000G setup, but I just don't have that budget yet. I figure that as long as I have the home base antenna, I can always switch repeater systems. 
I don't have a big budget, I just want an antenna system that I can put up on my own and is not obtrusively ugly looking (aesthetics) is a big topic for the neighbors. 
I will take any tips, ideas that you all can provide. Thank you!

You will find loads of pictures of antenna masts with vertical antennas on the net. Here is an outdated picture of mine.

I believe you question is more about where to mount the repeater? Is that correct? That is you decision. You could install repeater indoors and route the coax through the wall out to your antenna on a mast. Or you could install repeater outdoors, securing it to your home or the antenna mast directly and then locate the power supply indoors, running the cable through the wall out and out to the repeater. If you have a power outlet outdoors you can perhaps avoid the need to feed power from inside the building. Mounting the repeater outdoors on the mast has the benefit of reducing your expense for feed-line (coax).

If you were putting up a commercial repeater, you will want to be very selective in your antenna choices. For getting started, and given that cost is a concern, just about any GMRS antenna will work. When you are putting up a commercial repeater, you will want to be very selective in your feed-line choice. But getting started, LMR400 coax will be an acceptable choice. You can reuse that with your base when the time comes. When you are ready and can afford some serious gear, expect to upgrade your antenna, feed-line when you upgrade your repeater, if you take the budget approach initially.

Good luck.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[djxs]

Thank you @mbrunfor the great picture. That is exactly what I need to see, different ways that people have put up their antenna mast! Do you know... if lets say...I wanted to make along run of LRM400 (knowing full well that it is pricy) how long is too long before it causes signal degradation? Lets say the ideal location for my antenna is so far away from the ideal location of where I wanted to place the repeater?

The two locations that I have in mind could not be further away from each other! In fact, they are exactly as far away as they can be! The ideal antenna mast that I am thinking (tilt over) at 40 ft would be in the corner of my backyard and the ideal location for the equipment is in my garage (exactly in the opposite side of my property). If I had to guess, it is more than 300 ft!

 

Has any body done this before? Is it too long of a run? I do have an outdoor storage shed that would be the ideal location for all of the equipment and it is a whopping 3 ft away from where the ideal antenna location would be. However, the Tuff Shed is not insulated, does not have power and I live in super hot weather (Texas) that I am afraid that even if I did have power running into it, it would simply be too hot. By the way, my garage is insulated.

 

Your thoughts and comments are much appreciated. 

 

P.S. I don't really like the antenna to be mounted to my roof in case anybody is asking. That would work perfectly and I could mount it on the side of my garage. Maybe if I could see more pictures of how people have mounted their antennas to the side of their houses, but to be quite honest, I am just not sure if it would pass the wife test and pesky neighbors. I have an HOA that simply wants front yard aesthetics, but does not really mind anything going in in the backyard, including antennas as there are not regulations against it. Albeit, if I were to put the antenna mast in the backyard, they may come knocking. But you cant impose a rule on someone if it has not be written. They may change up the rules, but they would have nothing on me. Bad thing is future people in the area would not be able to put one up also.

[mbrun]

Thank you [mention=3409]mbrun[/mention]for the great picture. That is exactly what I need to see, different ways that people have put up their antenna mast! Do you know... if lets say...I wanted to make along run of LRM400 (knowing full well that it is pricy) how long is too long before it causes signal degradation? Lets say the ideal location for my antenna is so far away from the ideal location of where I wanted to place the repeater?
The two locations that I have in mind could not be further away from each other! In fact, they are exactly as far away as they can be! The ideal antenna mast that I am thinking (tilt over) at 40 ft would be in the corner of my backyard and the ideal location for the equipment is in my garage (exactly in the opposite side of my property). If I had to guess, it is more than 300 ft!
 
Has any body done this before? Is it too long of a run? I do have an outdoor storage shed that would be the ideal location for all of the equipment and it is a whopping 3 ft away from where the ideal antenna location would be. However, the Tuff Shed is not insulated, does not have power and I live in super hot weather (Texas) that I am afraid that even if I did have power running into it, it would simply be too hot. By the way, my garage is insulated.
 
Your thoughts and comments are much appreciated. 
 
P.S. I don't really like the antenna to be mounted to my roof in case anybody is asking. That would work perfectly and I could mount it on the side of my garage. Maybe if I could see more pictures of how people have mounted their antennas to the side of their houses, but to be quite honest, I am just not sure if it would pass the wife test and pesky neighbors. I have an HOA that simply wants front yard aesthetics, but does not really mind anything going in in the backyard, including antennas as there are not regulations against it. Albeit, if I were to put the antenna mast in the backyard, they may come knocking. But you cant impose a rule on someone if it has not be written. They may change up the rules, but they would have nothing on me. Bad thing is future people in the area would not be able to put one up also.

You need height to get the most out of any repeater. At only 40’ AGL I suspect you may achieve less than 1 perhaps out to 2 miles. Perhaps only just enough that you can use HTs while walking around your neighborhood. Off course, I do not know you specific conditions and it could be more or less.

I do not have any suggestions for you as far as HOA are concerned. I will let others tackle that issue. But a super tall antenna is not a common staple of acceptability in an HOA.

As far as ‘how much is too much cable’. That is truly relative to a lot of factors that play together to meet your objectives. Hypothetically, though, if you put 300’ of LMR between the Retevis 5 watt repeater (or any other 5 watt radio) and an antenna, there would only be about 1/2 watt of signal left making it to the antenna. The rest would be lost in the cable. This means your transmission coverage would be reduced substantially, as would your ability to pick up weak signals. This translates into transmit performance equal to or less than a FRS radio set to low power, and receive performance perhaps equal to or worse than the poorest of all FRS radios made.

In a quality repeater setting, the antenna often finds itself 100s of feet in the air. And while there is likely many 100s of feet of feed-line between the radio and antenna, the cable used is way better and substantially more expensive than the $1.10/ft for LMR400, has super low loss and is like running running copper water pipe and uses connectors more expensive than a lot of HTs. In these installations too, the repeater is located in a building directly at the base of the antenna tower or mast.

Spend some time learning about radio. Perhaps even install a base antenna on your home for simplex use. You will learn a lot by doing.

Good luck.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[djxs]

All I am trying to do is the best that I can do with the budge that works for me. I will take all of the information I receive and make the best decision. I am trying to get my neighbors involved as well. I am trying to be "A pillar of my community" as @OffRoaderX states in his videos. Any other pictures people can share of their home base antenna setups is much appreciated. 

 

Also, I need help with what is the best ID-Omatic to have my call sign via Morse Code automatically repeated. Any suggestions?

[BradleyG111]

Has anyone had any luck interfacing the RT97P repeater?

 

[Gpfrasca]

Hi Rich, I placed an order today for an RT97S and the link SD card.   I have a Raspberry Pi 3.  What else is needed to connect the repeater to my network?  I suspect a db9 connector cable between the pi and repeater, power for the pi...appreciate you feedback...especially if these items are available from you.

Cheers!

Glenn WRMA779

 

 

 

 

 

[WRAI304]

On 4/27/2022 at 10:50 PM, Gpfrasca said:

Hi Rich, I placed an order today for an RT97S and the link SD card.   I have a Raspberry Pi 3.  What else is needed to connect the repeater to my network?  I suspect a db9 connector cable between the pi and repeater, power for the pi...appreciate you feedback...especially if these items are available from you.

Cheers!

Glenn WRMA779

Same here, WRAI304, just purchased the same repeater and card, and already had the Pi 3.

 

 

 

 

 

[JJM]

On 7/18/2021 at 12:31 AM, rdunajewski said:

If the transmit and receive frequencies were further apart than 5 MHz, the duplexer would not have as much loss and you'd see something closer to 10W. 

Sorry to dig up an old thread, i'm looking into how to link my 97S to the network. This line caught my attention.

 

Are you saying that if you set the offset to larger than 5 MHz the final output wattage would be higher?

[SteveShannon]

46 minutes ago, JJM said:

Sorry to dig up an old thread, i'm looking into how to link my 97S to the network. This line caught my attention.

 

Are you saying that if you set the offset to larger than 5 MHz the final output wattage would be higher?

Not that the 97s would provide more power, but that the transmit and receive filters in the duplexer wouldn’t have as much effect on each other and there would be less losses in the duplexer. But if you did that none of the radios with preprogrammed repeater channels would be able to use your repeater.

Besides, if you look at 2 meter repeaters, you’ll see that the transmit and receive frequencies are only 0.6 MHz offset.

The duplexer in the RT97s isn’t necessarily designed for the lowest loss.  If you really want more power get a more powerful repeater in the first place.

[ian3211]

I'm also looking to link a couple of repeaters together but also not spend a ton on the repeaters as well and saw this thread. looking for ideas for the project.

[WRVL804]

I have a repeater that has been up and running for a while. Doesn't get a lot of traffic because the one here in town is very high up so it covers a great amount of area. I want to link my repeater with the MyGMRS Network and put it on the Nationwide room. I don't think there are any repeaters in this area with that running full time. I have two Motorola SM120 radios interfaced. I have looked over time at the full package to do it, but it always says there is a chip shortage and none of the full packages are available. Any idea how I can get it done? BTW, I have zero programming experience, that is why I wanted to plug and play package.

[flashover52]

Given some of the recent articles/notices the FCC is releasing and their focus on GMRS traffic can’t be passed over telephone/communication equipment, I foresee the linked GMRS repeater systems a thing of the past…. There have been several people I know who have been in tings with FCC staff where this topic came up. They were adamant that linking isn’t permitted. I believe the FCC is starting with these notices and will slowly start ramping up enforcement action in the coming year.

[OffRoaderX]

Lots of things arent permitted and lots of people, including the FCC, based on their record of enforcement, do not care - and what you "believe" doesn't really matter.

When the FCC actually begins to be serious about enforcements, then it will matter.

[GregWSCH382]

I am looking into linking my repeater with a friends repeater, to extend both of our coverage.  Preferably something plug & play and easy to use (set it and forget it).
What options are there and if you've used any, how did it/they perform?
TIA .

I’m not sure if there is anything that does. Maybe a node but I’m still not totally sure what those are yet. Every where I look nodes and raspberry pies keep showing up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SteveShannon]

2 hours ago, CavemanNH said:

I’m not sure if there is anything that does. Maybe a node but I’m still not totally sure what those are yet. Every where I look nodes and raspberry pies keep showing up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You’re responding to a nearly 3 year old thread, but here’s another thread that might help your understanding:

 

[flashover52]

Lots of things arent permitted and lots of people, including the FCC, based on their record of enforcement, do not care - and what you "believe" doesn't really matter.
When the FCC actually begins to be serious about enforcements, then it will matter.

So is this enough to make you believe that linking wasn’t permitted and now they are starting to enforce it?

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs?fbclid=IwY2xjawEuNpxleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHddzmEk8pDIkz8iOzEaSkASDKlIvS8M5ieWeeGwChFTQTCnQBNKT9h_vdQ_aem_irT21Y0IH0wUbWwyKoPQ0A#:~:text=You%20must%20cooperate%20in%20the,or%20through%20a%20repeater%20station

[OffRoaderX]

When they enforce it, I'll believe it.

[flashover52]

When they enforce it, I'll believe it.

This is the ‘pre-enforcement’ period otherwise known as the educational time. After its been out and public knowledge then folks won’t have much reason to say they didn’t know.

[OffRoaderX]

Just now, flashover52 said:

This is the ‘pre-enforcement’ period otherwise known as the educational time. After its been out and public knowledge then folks won’t have much reason to say they didn’t know

Uh huh.. Just like they enforce all the other rules.. 

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

It was updated on the 14th with the word internet. Now I'm turning off my node and shutting down my Zello Connection for now.  

[marcspaz]

It's funny, the ATF had the same attitude about bump stocks, arm braces and forced reset triggers, all the way up until the SCOTUS told them to sit down and stop talking. 

 

Not to mention, the entire premise is flawed. First, the page says that linking repeaters violates 95.1733(a)(8) and 95.1749 and possibly other rules. There is exactly ZERO rules saying you can't link repeaters for communications outside the coverage area of a handheld or mobile. That is a a flat-out lie.  There are restrictions about how and when networks can be used, but no prohibition on linking, itself.

 

Also, the page says that "linking increases the potential for interference" and "uses up a limited spectrum". That's funny. So, let me get this straight... all of the repeaters are there and in use, but it only has a potential for interference and only takes up spectrum when they are linked? That is just dumb.  If a repeater is in place, the potential for interference and the spectrum it uses is 100% unaffected by having it link to another repeater. 

 

Im not sure who writes this stuff, but they need to be fired.

[WRXR255]

6 hours ago, marcspaz said:

Im not sure who writes this stuff, but they need to be fired.

When Elon Musk bought Twitter, he fired over 80 percent of its workforce, and it flourished.

Love the line from the Joker in the first Batman reboot...

"This town needs an enema".

[WRUU850]

On 8/18/2024 at 6:25 AM, WRXR255 said:

When Elon Musk bought Twitter, he fired over 80 percent of its workforce, and it flourished.

Love the line from the Joker in the first Batman reboot...

"This town needs an enema".

"Use of Twitter in the US has slumped by more than a fifth since Elon Musk bought the site and rebranded it to X, according to data from app-monitoring company Sensor Tower.

As of February 2024, the social network’s daily app users in America had fallen by 23% since November 2022, just after Musk completed his takeover."

Not that I care, but how do you define "flourished"?

[marcspaz]

19 minutes ago, WRUU850 said:

"Use of Twitter in the US has slumped by more than a fifth since Elon Musk bought the site and rebranded it to X, according to data from app-monitoring company Sensor Tower.

As of February 2024, the social network’s daily app users in America had fallen by 23% since November 2022, just after Musk completed his takeover."

Not that I care, but how do you define "flourished"?

 

If I was a Gambling Man, I would put money on a significant majority of that decline being related to politics and people's opinions about Elon Musk. The real question is, what is revenue like? If the user base fell by more than 20% but profitability went up, I would say that's a success. Of course I don't know the answer to those questions I'm just thinking out loud.