Anyone have any trouble with using 2 KG1000G GMRS as repeaters? Can get mine to work

[1Duncan1]

I purchased 2 Wuoxun KG1000G GMRS radios to set up as my repeater station. I’m not having any luck making it work. I’ve followed the manual, watched the YouTube with no joy. 
 

Any advise would be appreciated, break down Barney style if you need to.

 

Andy

73’s, WRKR925

[Lscott]

If you can provide more details of how they are connected and maybe some photos it would help.

[mbrun]

Good Day Duncan!

Need more info. Lots of possibilities for why it’s not working based on what is not working.

What about the setup is working, if anything?
Is the power turned on to both radios?
How are the radios configured?
How are the radios hooked up? Are they hooked up correctly?
Is the cable used to interconnect the two radios wired correctly and working?
Are you using two antennas or one?
Are you using a duplexer? Is it tuned? Is it tuned for the correct frequencies? How do you know it is operational? Are you using the correct ports?
How close to the repeater are you when trying to test it with radios? What radios are using to test it with? What do you see happening on your repeater radios when you key up the radio you are testing the repeater with?
Does the transmit radio actually transmit a signal when using the HH mic in repeater mode if the receive radio is turned off?
Does the receive radio show that it is actually receiving a signal when the transmit radio is turned off?


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[OffRoaderX]

I just did the KG-1000G repeater thing - it works great.. its not perfect, but works pretty darn well - with coverage in 30+ miles each direction, and we just made it available on Zello (search Zello for the channel "Notarubicon GMRS 700 Repeater" -.. anyone can listen, request access to talk)

If you give a little info about what isnt working we can probably get you fixed up, or at least pointed in the right direction..

[djxs]

@OffRoaderX: I successfully joined the Zello Channel. Thank you for the access. 

[Wrmk984]

I also built a repeater  using 2 KG-1000G radios.  The repeater is working but I do not receive any indication that the repeater has received my Transmission.  I do not get a "KerChunk" when I key my radio.  Is there a setting I have missed?  Thank you.

[WROZ794]

Just got my KG1000G Plus radios (three total; one for the truck, and two to be used as a local repeater).  I cannot, for the life of me, get them to work as a repeater.

The 'Plus' units have different menu numbers and commands.  Of note is the repeater function (054).  If you go directly there, it'll say 'REPEATER'.  You can select it and turn it on or off.  However to tell the radio whether or not it is to perform in RX or TX, you have to manually scroll all the way through (up or down) to 054 again where it then presents as 'repeater mode' and allows you to make the selection.

Nothing about connecting the two refers to whether it wants you to use the crossover cable (which connects the head unit to the radio) or if you should use a standard RG234/ethernet cable.  Neither work for me, however I could stand to buy a new ethernet cable rather than fiddle with this older one I have tried.  So the cable itself is a 'maybe issue'

In the YT videos from buytwowayradios shows the opposite frequency programming of what I'd expect; inverting the TX and RX frequencies.  That's counterintuitive unless the system expects that it'll receive the transmitted frequency and then broadcast on the receive frequency.  If so, fine, but it seems inverted.  I have tried both ways, and this doesn't seem to make any difference.

I've also noticed that unless you do a factory reset of the factory image from the computer, you're SOL trying to get them to be anything but a repeater; you can't change them back via the keypad or menu options after you put it into repeater mode.  That's an issue.  Speaking of which, it also doesn't seem that you can tell the radios to go to, say, channel 25 (repeater 17), but that you have to program it in VFO mode, THEN tell it to be a repeater, THEN tell it what kind of repeater it should be (either TX or RX).  You can't do this in the software either, you can program a priority channel, but that doesn't solve this issue either, and it'll just default to GMRS-1 unless you pre-program the radio manually via VFO mode as previously mentioned.

At this point I'm tempted to send at least one back (possibly two) along with an antenna, power supplies (I'm using Wouxan DWC30WINs; one for each radio, so they have plenty of power at 13.8VDC).

I'm okay with being corrected, for sure.  If I've done something wrong, by all means tell me.  If not... well... any magic bullets for this?

[gortex2]

For the proce you paid for 2 radios you could buy a good used LMR repeater. I've not seen many folks on this site successfully impliment one and have good resoluts. Lots of choises out there if you look.

 

[WROZ794]

8 hours ago, gortex2 said:

For the proce you paid for 2 radios you could buy a good used LMR repeater. I've not seen many folks on this site successfully impliment one and have good resoluts. Lots of choises out there if you look.

 

Yeah, cool story bro.  Now do you have any constructive comments?

[tweiss3]

Just now, WROZ794 said:

Yeah, cool story bro.  Now do you have any constructive comments?

I would consider his comments constructive. Iirc, he himself tried at one point, and there are about a dozen other people here that tried. It's not worth the effort as it never works out. Besides, as he pointed out, you could have just bought an actual repeater for the costs of the 2 radios you just bought.

[WROZ794]

15 minutes ago, tweiss3 said:

I would consider his comments constructive. Iirc, he himself tried at one point, and there are about a dozen other people here that tried. It's not worth the effort as it never works out. Besides, as he pointed out, you could have just bought an actual repeater for the costs of the 2 radios you just bought.

Really?  I asked a specific question, with very specific details and got no response related to any of that data.  In fact, I got a response that simply had nothing to do with anything I'd asked; this is, by definition, not constructive.

 

Also, please link all these wonderful repeaters that are available on the market for $700.  I'll happily entertain them.

[tweiss3]

Look at hamfests or ebay. I paid $400 for my TKR-850, and I've seen a pile of them at the past 2 hamfests for only $600 (I bet they would haggle).

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/226048057405?itmmeta=01HSHB2F643BSH9B3Y7YX7EVA1&hash=item34a183a03d:g:UtcAAOSwJCVl9OK5&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwEF%2FByVwUUmCl%2FrSSYnqjIKsJDuuv%2BUF61HYqlhp%2Bl0UQInVAy1%2FCs0ZUmjcqVxV85Jr0xLhK%2FY92GLCMomKzm1FEXDp%2BQpqtdPw3xYprvgtU9643vKqX3HjuqAuWVvSSuFzMnpJNrHZGdVJCrBL1QPYPi%2FqiSuokF66kwG%2F2wwBC9bPWlHY9j6quv8J5soB1N1VzJJC40eIFSrhbzIyDisTk3RfFrG8UaHKSOGsoMrGjCDhJxRaGm8ph0GHewvT9A%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6zziavMYw

https://www.ebay.com/itm/386631482370?itmmeta=01HSHB3RKHS3ZKZJ4SYYPMY15T&hash=item5a05083c02:g:mi4AAOSwOg5lozE6&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwD6YdARKhicet%2FJCqsdaQ%2FNO1DooBikEygrcPjnosm5ovx92qKiNDmmQJ6dQVo23GdFlYV7tlSLK6%2B2L0grP84qtgJ3tIDWYGFPEiG2KT6%2F6l3EJNOVdf%2FuRC6v9VeQD808EGQnNlwmzv8eRP8RSKUeqxoxrykFr4Y63N%2BYt0ABrk%2B04%2BbKU0VFkhN3rGpmHs17xTQC0z96ui0QIF3r%2Bb7Zo98aglrB3A8HiF0kvYnuqaNavZeOZKCsOiXZHWBZ8mQ%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR_6Jj6vMYw

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186330130294?itmmeta=01HSHB5FGYB0DNN6TCJPT9G53M&hash=item2b62242776:g:lkcAAOSwmjFl55rG&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0GhDq3Q60ViK0xGgPO0ErM%2B5CQjGV2gizzQB%2BTDIOQIOrHPspeu9XSyISNUpb%2FJV9FAQZfX27azoe1KS2YxF8l8M7vFjBQl3oIx%2FANIs9oHlN8tDtucAgFnXy5wwfWYRNrYIb%2BTQpAFAi846ftGP72nDAV491up63tmCBwGDxRENOLY15J7tCoCnHH53Atz5zfAKwfZDD3JImmOS3r6mtVsFlcj70oIGyBBYNBoKZlc9OA9nUkZbYAU6uKH31zWTjc1rjrH1y4soVKvw93H2elM%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8j4lavMYw

 

Three examples................

[WROZ794]

5 minutes ago, tweiss3 said:

Look at hamfests or ebay. I paid $400 for my TKR-850, and I've seen a pile of them at the past 2 hamfests for only $600 (I bet they would haggle).

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/226048057405?itmmeta=01HSHB2F643BSH9B3Y7YX7EVA1&hash=item34a183a03d:g:UtcAAOSwJCVl9OK5&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwEF%2FByVwUUmCl%2FrSSYnqjIKsJDuuv%2BUF61HYqlhp%2Bl0UQInVAy1%2FCs0ZUmjcqVxV85Jr0xLhK%2FY92GLCMomKzm1FEXDp%2BQpqtdPw3xYprvgtU9643vKqX3HjuqAuWVvSSuFzMnpJNrHZGdVJCrBL1QPYPi%2FqiSuokF66kwG%2F2wwBC9bPWlHY9j6quv8J5soB1N1VzJJC40eIFSrhbzIyDisTk3RfFrG8UaHKSOGsoMrGjCDhJxRaGm8ph0GHewvT9A%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6zziavMYw

https://www.ebay.com/itm/386631482370?itmmeta=01HSHB3RKHS3ZKZJ4SYYPMY15T&hash=item5a05083c02:g:mi4AAOSwOg5lozE6&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwD6YdARKhicet%2FJCqsdaQ%2FNO1DooBikEygrcPjnosm5ovx92qKiNDmmQJ6dQVo23GdFlYV7tlSLK6%2B2L0grP84qtgJ3tIDWYGFPEiG2KT6%2F6l3EJNOVdf%2FuRC6v9VeQD808EGQnNlwmzv8eRP8RSKUeqxoxrykFr4Y63N%2BYt0ABrk%2B04%2BbKU0VFkhN3rGpmHs17xTQC0z96ui0QIF3r%2Bb7Zo98aglrB3A8HiF0kvYnuqaNavZeOZKCsOiXZHWBZ8mQ%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR_6Jj6vMYw

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186330130294?itmmeta=01HSHB5FGYB0DNN6TCJPT9G53M&hash=item2b62242776:g:lkcAAOSwmjFl55rG&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0GhDq3Q60ViK0xGgPO0ErM%2B5CQjGV2gizzQB%2BTDIOQIOrHPspeu9XSyISNUpb%2FJV9FAQZfX27azoe1KS2YxF8l8M7vFjBQl3oIx%2FANIs9oHlN8tDtucAgFnXy5wwfWYRNrYIb%2BTQpAFAi846ftGP72nDAV491up63tmCBwGDxRENOLY15J7tCoCnHH53Atz5zfAKwfZDD3JImmOS3r6mtVsFlcj70oIGyBBYNBoKZlc9OA9nUkZbYAU6uKH31zWTjc1rjrH1y4soVKvw93H2elM%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8j4lavMYw

 

Three examples................

What kind of warranties do they have?  Are they brand new?  Do you have any idea the lifespan of the components of these things?  I am former USAF, in EW with a couple of degrees behind me.  I'm not looking for used items with shady sellers, thanks.  I'd like new equipment, which is why I bought new equipment.  Now please point me to three examples of those which are factory fresh, brand new in the box.  Then we can discuss. Also, how many of those (spoiler, alert, the answer is zero) can I turn into base stations or mobile radios?

I bought what I bought for some specific reasons, and if I'd wanted to discuss other repeater options, I'd have started a new thread on that subject.

[gortex2]

Enjoy the CCR you purchased. I'm sure you wont be on this forum long. Manage expectations. Buy junk get junk results. I love how a new GMRS user jumps on here and complains when those in the field for 30+ years give them honest answers. Maybe youtube should be your friend. 

 

[WRYZ926]

18 hours ago, WROZ794 said:

Nothing about connecting the two refers to whether it wants you to use the crossover cable (which connects the head unit to the radio) or if you should use a standard RG234/ethernet cable.  Neither work for me, however I could stand to buy a new ethernet cable rather than fiddle with this older one I have tried.  So the cable itself is a 'maybe issue'

The Wouxun KG-1000G and KG-1000G Plus do not use a standard straight through or crossover cable. The extension cable that comes with the radio works for both remote mounting the head and for connecting two radios together for a repeater. This is where a common and inexpensive RJ12/RJ45 cable tester comes in handy. Hint for you - pins 5 and 7 are reversed.

That being said. There are plenty of members here that have made a repeater using two KG-1000G radios. Most, if not all, of them have since went to using an actual purpose built repeater. The reason for this is that the KG-1000G does not have sufficient duty cycle rates for use as a repeater. An actually repeater will have a 100% duty cycle and will hold up to constant use.

 

PS: Here is a good thread explaining duty cycle https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/1399-duty-cycle-explained/#comment-26152

[OffRoaderX]

1 minute ago, WRYZ926 said:

There are plenty of members here that have made a repeater using two KG-1000G radios. Most, if not all, of them have since went to using an actual purpose built repeater. The reason for this is that the KG-1000G does not have sufficient duty cycle rates for use as a repeater. An actually repeater will have a 100% duty cycle and will hold up to constant use.

I made a repeater using to KG-1000Gs and I never had an issue with duty cycle, even when our entire group was banging away at it for days at a time.  I DID however run into the issue of desense which was limiting the range of the setup - I was getting 25+ miles, but why my geography I should have been getting a lot more fars.

As Mr @WRYZ926 said, I too upgraded to a purpose-built repeater and with LESS power out, i get 2x+ more fars.

[WRYZ926]

I spaced on the desense issue if the antennas are not far enough away from each other or the need for a decent (and properly tuned) duplexer if only using one antenna. I still have too much blood in the caffeine system this afternoon.

[nokones]

3 hours ago, WROZ794 said:

Yeah, cool story bro.  Now do you have any constructive comments?

Those were not only constructive comments, they are facts. Using two Wouxun KG1000 Plus radios side-by-side configured as a repeater, you will experience a horrendous desense problem whereas you'll be lucky that receive radio won't receive even a 50 watt mobile more than a mile away.

[nokones]

1 hour ago, WRYZ926 said:

I spaced on the desense issue if the antennas are not far enough away from each other or the need for a decent (and properly tuned) duplexer if only using one antenna. I still have too much blood in the caffeine system this afternoon.

The desense problem is not an antenna issue. The desense issue is with the two radios that don't have any shielding and the transmitting radio emits EMI directly into the receiver of the receiving radio.

Also, if you are using a Cheap Chinese Duplexer that cost around $150 you're just compounding the desense issue with a crappy duplexer. You need to spend close to $400-500 for a decent duplexer if you setting this up at your residence and not at a radio remote site

[OffRoaderX]

1 hour ago, nokones said:

....you'll be lucky that receive radio won't receive even a 50 watt mobile more than a mile away.

Mine was receiving radios at 10-20 miles away.. but.. yah.. other than that, you're right.

[WRUU653]

3 hours ago, WROZ794 said:

What kind of warranties do they have?  Are they brand new?  Do you have any idea the lifespan of the components of these things?  I am former USAF, in EW with a couple of degrees behind me.  I'm not looking for used items with shady sellers, thanks.  I'd like new equipment, which is why I bought new equipment.  Now please point me to three examples of those which are factory fresh, brand new in the box.  Then we can discuss. Also, how many of those (spoiler, alert, the answer is zero) can I turn into base stations or mobile radios?

I bought what I bought for some specific reasons, and if I'd wanted to discuss other repeater options, I'd have started a new thread on that subject.

  What you say we try that again...  Seems like you are getting off on the wrong foot and coming in hot. I don't think initially people were trying to be disparaging but perhaps you took it that way.  First, thank you for your service. Second, no one cares about your degrees. Oh Yeah, Spoiler alert it's a forum not the help desk where you bought your radios so advice and opinions are going to be at the discretion of the people giving it. You wouldn't ask a stranger for directions on the street and yell at them would you? What people are trying to point out is older commercial grade equipment has a well regarded reputation for doing the job that your set up does not. Perhaps someone at your local Ham club has a set up you can buy that isn't some "shady seller". If you stick around you'll find some helpful people here, in fact there right here in this thread. Good luck.

[WRYZ926]

Here is the pinout for the Wouxun extension cables.

1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4, 5-7, 6-6, 7-5, 8-8

I will suggest using a good shielded Cat6 cable along with shielded RJ45 connectors if you plan on making your own cable. The shielded cable will help keep out RFI from other radios.

Again, it will work, but you will be better off getting a purpose built repeater and a decent duplexer versus using two KG-1000G radios for the reasons already mentioned.

[WROZ794]

15 hours ago, gortex2 said:

Enjoy the CCR you purchased. I'm sure you wont be on this forum long. Manage expectations. Buy junk get junk results. I love how a new GMRS user jumps on here and complains when those in the field for 30+ years give them honest answers. Maybe youtube should be your friend. 

 

It's funny how folks just assume what people's experiences are and then elevate themselves; that's a serious narcissism issue you have there, but you've coupled it nicely with some staggering hubris which rounds it off nicely.

As before, do you have some constructive help for the very specific questions I've answered or would you like to continue smelling your own farts and telling us how they're rosy?

[WROZ794]

14 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

I made a repeater using to KG-1000Gs and I never had an issue with duty cycle, even when our entire group was banging away at it for days at a time.  I DID however run into the issue of desense which was limiting the range of the setup - I was getting 25+ miles, but why my geography I should have been getting a lot more fars.

As Mr @WRYZ926 said, I too upgraded to a purpose-built repeater and with LESS power out, i get 2x+ more fars.

Your videos actually led me to this particular setup, and the ability to split the system and get two mobile units is appealing for a variety of reasons (and I deeply appreciate the effort you put into them; thank you). 

 

Much like you I'm elevated, but sit across from a mountain range (roughly 3 miles or less LOS); a highway bisects my town and sits between me and the opposite mountain range.  Ideally we'd mount it on the west side of the highway such that it'd give better coverage to the folks on my side of the highway (which is a lower mountain range), and that could be an option.  However, running it as a mobile set up inside my home, on a mag base, I was able to get extremely good reception and transmission at over 30 miles from a verified contact south, 5 miles north, and 2 miles west (those are just the contacts that popped up).  This represents plenty of spread for my use-case so my fars needs are met, and as this isn't going to be a 'hot use' repeater, I wouldn't expect the duty cycle to be an issue; this augments ham systems in place and a developing Meshtastic system (triple-layer comms...).

 

While a dedicated GMRS may be in the future, it's something that we'd need to prove out, and would buy or build new, and this also lends nicely to having the option to later re-purpose the KG1Ks to other folks doing different duties.

 

When you set up the KGs as repeaters, were you using the Plus models or the standard ones?  Picking your brain on the matter would be helpful; I'm absolutely fine with some operator error being the cause of my issues, but being able to resolve it is key.  The new manual for the Plus units directs you to page 91 for how to put them into repeater active mode (menu item 54), but you have to scroll all the way through all menu items to get back to menu item 54 before it gives you the option to select what the unit will be doing as part of the repeater (TX or RX).  There's no mention of when or how to set up the frequencies.  I think I'm just experiencing an issue with order of operations.  

 

Heck, if you don't already have these units (pluses) and wanted to make a more detailed video, I'd be happy to send them out to you; I'm sure it'd be appreciated by many, and perhaps if there is a problem with the units you'd have Wouxan's proverbial ear holes to explain the issues... the issues.  Let me know.

[WROZ794]

9 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

Here is the pinout for the Wouxun extension cables.

1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4, 5-7, 6-6, 7-5, 8-8

I will suggest using a good shielded Cat6 cable along with shielded RJ45 connectors if you plan on making your own cable. The shielded cable will help keep out RFI from other radios.

Again, it will work, but you will be better off getting a purpose built repeater and a decent duplexer versus using two KG-1000G radios for the reasons already mentioned.

Never a bad idea.  I was avionics (Electronic Warfare) for a good many years while active duty, and part of that was doing EM hardening and TEMPEST controls which involved a lot of shielding discipline and cat-separation protocols (particularly for secret squirrel data isolation).  I followed that up as a systems engineer and got into program management for depot retrofit/upgrade on aircraft/airborne systems that do collection activities in these spectrums for a couple of decades.    

 

While there may be more than one term for 'crossover cable' that's precisely how we made what we called crossover cables so that systems could talk back and forth while being able to internally duplex info (which made it a lot faster since you weren't shoving serial data).  I'd been under the assumption that the included (rather long) head relocation cable (which is what I've been referring to as the crossover cable) would be the appropriate one to use for the aforementioned reasons, but it occurred to me at some point that I might not be correct there, and so hunted through the manual to get some clarity.  I'm not saying the manual doesn't hold this little nugget of info, but I can say that if it does, I haven't been able to uncover it.

 

As always, there are reasons that make sense for us to be using the KG system for now.  If I can get it up and running I'll be happy to push for a dedicated, purpose-built unit in the future, and have been under no delusions that one might be better than the other as a dedicated system, but for now there are specific reasons to use a setup more like this one.  We'd briefly considered the Retevis 97 system but there were order issues as well as some increasingly shady business practices by Retevis directly which made us back out, and the system was rather low powered and rated for lower duty cycles than the KGs are, so it seemed like a no brainer.  Higher power, greater versatility, and presumably commonality of other radio systems we are already using.